Surveys
 

On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 15:14:51 GMT, "Janet O'Leary"
wrote:

When making an offer subject to survey,, is it proper or common to have the
seller and the buyer share the cost of the survey? As I've posted, I'm
looking at
a couple of sailboats, and since I am on a budget, I'd hate to spend $400
dollars
and have the surveyor tell me the boat is junk. As I read these postings, I
got to
wondering if the buyer should ask the seller to share the cost of the
survey. This
way, if the seller knows there is a hidden defect, he/she will not only lose
the sale,
but also lose some money. Wouldn't this be a way for the buyer to test the
seller, especially if the seller is telling the buyer that the boat is in
excellent
condition.

The buyer always pays for the survey because it is for their benefit.

Janet, in all seriousness and with all due respect, if you are
concerned about $400 you have no business even thinking about buying a
boat or living on one. $400 and the purchase price are just the tip
of the iceberg.

If low cost housing is your top priority consider the rental or
purchase of a mobile home. It would be *much* less expensive than
owning a boat and have a lot more living space.

Surveys
 

On 24 Nov 2008 11:12:02 -0600, Dave wrote:

That is the way it's generally done. However, if I were selling a boat I'd
tell the buyer at the outset that the agreed price is the price regardless
of what a survey finds. If he doesn't like the survey he can cancel the
contract, but there will be no renegotiation of the price.

And I would tell you to take a hike and keep your boat.

Surveys
 

wrote:
snip

Until you try and get insurance... Which you will need to stay at most
marinas... And you would be extremely foolish to be without, anyway.
When a $3000 sailboat breaks free in a storm and hits a $750k
sailboat, or several of them...



You mean sort of like this?
http://www.thelog.com/news/logNewsAr...=4&b=14&x=8665

--Alan

Surveys
 

On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 10:34:00 -0800 (PST), Two meter troll
wrote:



for me it depends on what i am doing with the boat. if i am picking up
a boat to reloft it and rebuild it i dont get a survey because im just
gonna rip the boat apart and any rot will come to light. if i plan on
doing some fixup and flip work i get a survey to find out if there are
problems i have over looked and to see if the price is worth the
headach. if i am buying a plastic boat i tend to not get a survey
because i am almost obligated to rip the transom and house off of the
boat and fix the rot issues. (never seen a plastic boat that didnt
have rot issues in these places) If i am getting a boat to use with my
students i dont get a survey because i am going to take the boat apart
and rebuild it and each problem i run into i use as a teaching point.
surveyers are best used when you are plunking down a bunch of cash and
want to negotiate price. good surveyers can find problems that you and
the seller may not have looked at (soft places next to the keel, rot
under pipes, electrical problems, keel cooler problems, rot under the
mast step, ETC.)

steel boats i always get surveyed no matter the size, or what i am
going to do with it. to much can hide under paint and i dont want to
waste time kneedle gunning the entire hull if i dont have to. engines
are another always have surveyed deal I want a list of all the stuff
wrong with the power plant and a good mech on hand to let me know if i
ought to pull it or fix it.
I dont get electrical surveys done at all, ever. there is not a used
boat on earth that does not need all the electrical ripped out and
replaced.

I tend to get anything over twenty feet looked at after i do a fix up
and go to great lengths to have a clean bill when i am done. I have
one set of eyes, it is valuable to me to have another set being
critical of my work and to see that i have not overlooked something.

for smaller boats i let the buyer get a surveyer to look it over and
urge them to find one out of area. I have a good rep with the guys and
gals in this area and that can cause problems if i want to make a
honest deal, after all these folks know i want to sell the boat and i
am friends with them so the trend is for them to give me the benifit
of the doubt.

some boats the best guy to hire is not a surveyer. rather a marine
archetect would do you a better job. many old steel boats have been
refit over the years and sometimes stability is comprimised or the
boat is no longer able to be sailed in fresh water. some sailboats
have to big of rig, to small a rig, wrong angles for standing rigging,
bad rake, under sized sticks, whimpy mast steps, over all bad design,
a bunch of other stuff that a surveyer will not catch. the archetects
job is to run the numbers, find the flaws and let you know.

the weakness of getting a survey or having an archetect go over things
is that some folks consider them to be the last word, allow them to
make decisions, or give opinions. not good when buying a boat you want
advise and data not opinions.

Thanks. Some sound advice and observations there.
Seems you do a lot boat trading.
Does (or can) a surveyor offer advice on pricing, or is that out of
his territory?

--Vic

Surveys
 

"Alan Gomes" wrote in message ...
wrote:
snip

Until you try and get insurance... Which you will need to stay at most
marinas... And you would be extremely foolish to be without, anyway.
When a $3000 sailboat breaks free in a storm and hits a $750k
sailboat, or several of them...



You mean sort of like this?
http://www.thelog.com/news/logNewsAr...=4&b=14&x=8665

--Alan


Good reason to have an accessible fuel cut-off.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Surveys
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 12:40:05 -0500, said:

That is the way it's generally done. However, if I were selling a boat
I'd
tell the buyer at the outset that the agreed price is the price
regardless
of what a survey finds. If he doesn't like the survey he can cancel the
contract, but there will be no renegotiation of the price.

In this market, you'll have that boat until it gets sold as part of
your estate.

Nonsense. There are people who don't have the psychological profile of the
merchant in a Middle Eastern bazaar. Even in this market.

Dave, although I am not as expert as you ,, what you write is totally
not true, at least in the market we find ourselves in today.

I have only been looking for a short time, but every boat I have looked at,
and the many folks I have asked for help .. have all assured me that
if the seller wants. or has any interest at all in selling his/her boat,
then
the seller must work with the buyer..

I don't know where you live but here in Florida, there are thousands of
boats for sale and very few buyers.

Surveys
 

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 15:14:51 GMT, "Janet O'Leary"
wrote:

When making an offer subject to survey,, is it proper or common to have
the
seller and the buyer share the cost of the survey? As I've posted, I'm
looking at
a couple of sailboats, and since I am on a budget, I'd hate to spend $400
dollars
and have the surveyor tell me the boat is junk. As I read these postings,
I
got to
wondering if the buyer should ask the seller to share the cost of the
survey. This
way, if the seller knows there is a hidden defect, he/she will not only
lose
the sale,
but also lose some money. Wouldn't this be a way for the buyer to test
the
seller, especially if the seller is telling the buyer that the boat is in
excellent
condition.

The buyer always pays for the survey because it is for their benefit.

Janet, in all seriousness and with all due respect, if you are
concerned about $400 you have no business even thinking about buying a
boat or living on one. $400 and the purchase price are just the tip
of the iceberg.

If low cost housing is your top priority consider the rental or
purchase of a mobile home. It would be *much* less expensive than
owning a boat and have a lot more living space.


why thank you wayne, for your advice.. now go ...

you sound like some of the men around here, dumb, fat, and loud.

Surveys
 

On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 21:51:18 GMT, "Janet O'Leary"
wrote:


"Dave" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 12:40:05 -0500, said:

That is the way it's generally done. However, if I were selling a boat
I'd
tell the buyer at the outset that the agreed price is the price
regardless
of what a survey finds. If he doesn't like the survey he can cancel the
contract, but there will be no renegotiation of the price.

In this market, you'll have that boat until it gets sold as part of
your estate.

Nonsense. There are people who don't have the psychological profile of the
merchant in a Middle Eastern bazaar. Even in this market.

Dave, although I am not as expert as you ,, what you write is totally
not true, at least in the market we find ourselves in today.

I have only been looking for a short time, but every boat I have looked at,
and the many folks I have asked for help .. have all assured me that
if the seller wants. or has any interest at all in selling his/her boat,
then
the seller must work with the buyer..

I don't know where you live but here in Florida, there are thousands of
boats for sale and very few buyers.

Whether he wants to haggle or not, it's a fact of life in most sales
of this type that most people would expect to get his price down.
Hell of a lot easier to put that haggle money in the offer price and
work it down if necessary to do the sale.
Just my opinion.

--Vic

Surveys
 

On Nov 24, 1:13*pm, Vic Smith wrote:
On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 10:34:00 -0800 (PST), Two meter troll





wrote:

for me it depends on what i am doing with the boat. if i am picking up
a boat to reloft it and rebuild it i dont get a survey because im just
gonna rip the boat apart and any rot will come to light. if i plan on
doing some fixup and flip work i get a survey to find out if there are
problems i have over looked and to see if the price is worth the
headach. if i am buying a plastic boat i tend to not get a survey
because i am almost obligated to rip the transom and house off of the
boat and fix the rot issues. (never seen a plastic boat that didnt
have rot issues in these places) If i am getting a boat to use with my
students i dont get a survey because i am going to take the boat apart
and rebuild it and each problem i run into i use as a teaching point.
surveyers are best used when you are plunking down a bunch of cash and
want to negotiate price. good surveyers can find problems that you and
the seller may not have looked at (soft places next to the keel, rot
under pipes, electrical problems, keel cooler problems, rot under the
mast step, ETC.)

steel boats i always get surveyed no matter the size, or what i am
going to do with it. to much can hide under paint and i dont want to
waste time kneedle gunning the entire hull if i dont have to. engines
are another always have surveyed deal I want a list of all the stuff
wrong with the power plant and a good mech on hand to let me know if i
ought to pull it or fix it.
I dont get electrical surveys done at all, ever. there is not a used
boat on earth that does not need all the electrical ripped out and
replaced.

I tend to get anything over twenty feet looked at after i do a fix up
and go to great lengths to have a clean bill when i am done. I have
one set of eyes, it is valuable to me to have another set being
critical of my work and to see that i have not overlooked something.

for smaller boats i let the buyer get a surveyer to look it over and
urge them to find one out of area. I have a good rep with the guys and
gals in this area and that can cause problems if i want to make a
honest deal, after all these folks know i want to sell the boat and i
am friends with them so the trend is for them to give me the benifit
of the doubt.

some boats the best guy to hire is not a surveyer. rather a marine
archetect would do you a better job. many old steel boats have been
refit over the years and sometimes stability is comprimised or the
boat is no longer able to be sailed in fresh water. some sailboats
have to big of rig, to small a rig, wrong angles for standing rigging,
bad rake, under sized sticks, whimpy mast steps, over all bad design,
a bunch of other stuff that a surveyer will not catch. the archetects
job is to run the numbers, find the flaws and let you know.

the weakness of getting a survey or having an archetect go over things
is that some folks consider them to be the last word, allow them to
make decisions, or give opinions. not good when buying a boat you want
advise and data not opinions.

Thanks. *Some sound advice and observations there.
Seems you do a lot boat trading.
Does (or can) a surveyor offer advice on pricing, or is that out of
his territory?

--Vic *- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

IMO it would be out of his territory, and i dont think i have ever had
a surveyor offer a price suggestion. I did have one tell me he would
never again go aboard the boat i had him survey. the owner of said
boat was standing on the dock with me all panting to seal the deal.

when a 60 year old man who's been out in boats i would not call
seaworthy tells me he fears for his life on a boat at the dock. i tend
to listen.

Surveys
 

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 10:34:00 -0800 (PST), Two meter troll
wrote:



for me it depends on what i am doing with the boat. if i am picking up
a boat to reloft it and rebuild it i dont get a survey because im just
gonna rip the boat apart and any rot will come to light. if i plan on
doing some fixup and flip work i get a survey to find out if there are
problems i have over looked and to see if the price is worth the
headach. if i am buying a plastic boat i tend to not get a survey
because i am almost obligated to rip the transom and house off of the
boat and fix the rot issues. (never seen a plastic boat that didnt
have rot issues in these places) If i am getting a boat to use with my
students i dont get a survey because i am going to take the boat apart
and rebuild it and each problem i run into i use as a teaching point.
surveyers are best used when you are plunking down a bunch of cash and
want to negotiate price. good surveyers can find problems that you and
the seller may not have looked at (soft places next to the keel, rot
under pipes, electrical problems, keel cooler problems, rot under the
mast step, ETC.)

steel boats i always get surveyed no matter the size, or what i am
going to do with it. to much can hide under paint and i dont want to
waste time kneedle gunning the entire hull if i dont have to. engines
are another always have surveyed deal I want a list of all the stuff
wrong with the power plant and a good mech on hand to let me know if i
ought to pull it or fix it.
I dont get electrical surveys done at all, ever. there is not a used
boat on earth that does not need all the electrical ripped out and
replaced.

I tend to get anything over twenty feet looked at after i do a fix up
and go to great lengths to have a clean bill when i am done. I have
one set of eyes, it is valuable to me to have another set being
critical of my work and to see that i have not overlooked something.

for smaller boats i let the buyer get a surveyer to look it over and
urge them to find one out of area. I have a good rep with the guys and
gals in this area and that can cause problems if i want to make a
honest deal, after all these folks know i want to sell the boat and i
am friends with them so the trend is for them to give me the benifit
of the doubt.

some boats the best guy to hire is not a surveyer. rather a marine
archetect would do you a better job. many old steel boats have been
refit over the years and sometimes stability is comprimised or the
boat is no longer able to be sailed in fresh water. some sailboats
have to big of rig, to small a rig, wrong angles for standing rigging,
bad rake, under sized sticks, whimpy mast steps, over all bad design,
a bunch of other stuff that a surveyer will not catch. the archetects
job is to run the numbers, find the flaws and let you know.

the weakness of getting a survey or having an archetect go over things
is that some folks consider them to be the last word, allow them to
make decisions, or give opinions. not good when buying a boat you want
advise and data not opinions.

Thanks. Some sound advice and observations there.
Seems you do a lot boat trading.
Does (or can) a surveyor offer advice on pricing, or is that out of
his territory?

--Vic



They don't offer advice on pricing, but they do give you a "how it lays"
market price and a replacement cost.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com