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Surveys
"Gordon" wrote in message m... OOPS Janet O'Leary is really DSK who is really KLC! Who are the rest of the socks. Wilbur? Gordon I'm not a sock. I'm at least a shoe. |
Surveys
On Nov 25, 12:57 pm, "Janet O'Leary"
wrote: So,, you tell us you have bought "a lot" of boats.. but you fail to tell us anything about any of them.. What make? Model? Length? Where do you moor/dock this mystery boat? You are quick to tell me that you are an expert,, mr knows everything .. but you don't tell us what the make, model, length,, of your boat is? Huumm.... I'm doubting you have every owned even one boat. You sound like a boat owner want a be.. A phoney.. Mr expert ... my ass.. You are a big pile of air.. Prove to us all that you own a boat .. show us the boat.. tell us the make, model,, where you dock her.. Come on mr smart guy. This is starting to sound suspiciously Wilbur-esque. So far as I can tell, any useful information about surveys has long since passed this way, and it's now devolving into non-thread and name- calling rants. I'm a bit surprised guns or Hitler hasn't shown up yet, the way things have headed :{)) L8R Skip, working on a HD recovery |
Surveys
This is starting to sound suspiciously Wilbur-esque.
So far as I can tell, any useful information about surveys has long since passed this way, and it's now devolving into non-thread and name- calling rants. I'm a bit surprised guns or Hitler hasn't shown up yet, the way things have headed :{)) L8R Skip, working on a HD recovery This all started as a general "what about this boat" question. Since, I've been attacked by people who seem to be annoyed that I have the boldness to even be here. I am new to the group,, and new to the idea of buying a boat. but new to life.. Lucky for me,, I've go friends who are helping.. There seem to be many who post here that don't own boats but consider themselves experts. I can't figure that out.. I do like reading the postings though.. I've looked back and there are some very good points, info. Even by the famous, or is that infamour Hubbard. He seems to be the most disliked,, yet some of his postings are very good. I think he does this to get folks going.. I don't plan on sailing around the world, not live on my boat.. but I will do some cruising and live on the boat for a period of time.. |
Surveys
"Janet O'Leary" wrote in message ... This is starting to sound suspiciously Wilbur-esque. snipped There seem to be many who post here that don't own boats but consider themselves experts. I can't figure that out.. You are quite right about that I do like reading the postings though.. I've looked back and there are some very good points, info. Even by the famous, or is that infamour Hubbard. He seems to be the most disliked,, yet some of his postings are very good. I think he does this to get folks going.. Yes, he loves to do that. Unfortunately one has to be fairly experienced to assess whether he is giving good information or just winding the group up for his own amusement. Also he posts under various names. Even 'Wilbur' is not his real name. I don't plan on sailing around the world, not live on my boat.. but I will do some cruising and live on the boat for a period of time.. Fair enough. Stick with the Group and in time the situation will become clearer. There is actually some good information to be obtained here once one has some experience of the various characters involved. |
Surveys
Even by the famous, or is that infamour Hubbard.
"Famous"? A legend in his own mind, perhaps. ...*He seems to be the most disliked,, yet some of his postings are very good. "Wilbur" and his sockpuppets (ahem) are not really disliked. At the most, those of us who are really sailing & cruising pity whoever the real person is, because clearly he (or she) would like to sail & cruise but apparently cannot.... disabled somehow, perhaps? Anyway, his/her "expertise" is mostly googled from on-line articles. Try cut-n- pasting some parts from his more lucid, accurate posts into a search engine, and see for yourself. "Edgar" wrote: Fair enough. Stick with the Group and in time the situation will become clearer. There is actually some good information to be obtained here once one has some experience of the various characters involved. Yep, this place is fairly interesting and certainly some good pointers to pick up. To me, that's one of the best things about sailing & cruising... always more to learn! Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
Surveys
Janet O'Leary wrote:
This is starting to sound suspiciously Wilbur-esque. So far as I can tell, any useful information about surveys has long since passed this way, and it's now devolving into non-thread and name- calling rants. I'm a bit surprised guns or Hitler hasn't shown up yet, the way things have headed :{)) L8R Skip, working on a HD recovery This all started as a general "what about this boat" question. Since, I've been attacked by people who seem to be annoyed that I have the boldness to even be here. I am new to the group,, and new to the idea of buying a boat. but new to life.. Lucky for me,, I've go friends who are helping.. There seem to be many who post here that don't own boats but consider themselves experts. I can't figure that out.. I do like reading the postings though.. I've looked back and there are some very good points, info. Even by the famous, or is that infamour Hubbard. He seems to be the most disliked,, yet some of his postings are very good. I think he does this to get folks going.. I don't plan on sailing around the world, not live on my boat.. but I will do some cruising and live on the boat for a period of time.. You're sick. Get help. You're filling up my killfile. Plonk |
Surveys
On Nov 25, 6:01*am, (Richard Casady)
wrote: On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 10:34:00 -0800 (PST), Two meter troll wrote: I dont get electrical surveys done at all, ever. there is not a used boat on earth that does not need all the electrical ripped out and replaced. Fresh water. Casady nope if the boat is used then someone has done some fixing and it needs a total rewire. its not a corrosion issue its a people issue. |
Surveys
On Nov 24, 9:23*pm, Jere Lull wrote:
On 2008-11-24 16:13:01 -0500, Vic Smith said: Does (or can) a surveyor offer advice on pricing, or is that out of his territory? Our survey included a listing of recent prices. -- Jere Lull Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD Xan's pages:http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/ Our BVI trips & tips:http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/ that is true when i looked at my surveys all of them have a market price on them but no opinion price. in other words this is what a used such and such costs. not this is what i would pay for such and such. I called a couple of surveyer friends and they have listing prices and an average calculator but when i asked if they felt comfortable giving a what they would pay for the boat price all but one said that would not be ethical, the one said his job is to find the flaws not find the money. so i guess the thing would be it depends on your definition of giving a price. |
Surveys
"Two meter troll" wrote in message
... On Nov 25, 6:01 am, (Richard Casady) wrote: On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 10:34:00 -0800 (PST), Two meter troll wrote: I dont get electrical surveys done at all, ever. there is not a used boat on earth that does not need all the electrical ripped out and replaced. Fresh water. Casady nope if the boat is used then someone has done some fixing and it needs a total rewire. its not a corrosion issue its a people issue. I didn't find that to be the case with mine. It was all labelled and nothing was amis until I messed with it. :) -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Surveys
On Nov 26, 6:28*pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"Two meter troll" wrote in ... On Nov 25, 6:01 am, (Richard Casady) wrote: On Mon, 24 Nov 2008 10:34:00 -0800 (PST), Two meter troll wrote: I dont get electrical surveys done at all, ever. there is not a used boat on earth that does not need all the electrical ripped out and replaced. Fresh water. Casady nope if the boat is used then someone has done some fixing and it needs a total rewire. its not a corrosion issue its a people issue. I didn't find that to be the case with mine. It was all labelled and nothing was amis until I messed with it. :) -- "j" ganz hence ;) I dont usually have to much trouble but after the R/V Playboy i dont take any chances with the electrical systems on used boats. it took months to find the wire that was the problem the boxes and all looked great all the connections where tight it all looked good but it kept shorting out at randome times mostly in bad weather but at times with a three or four foot chop. and no real swell. so i figured its some wire in the bilge went looked cleaned it painted it white no wire i could see. yaddda yaddda rip out stuff finally after the whole thing goes gunny bags in 10s with a 25 foot swell and a screaming half snow gale and rip the entire system out. well whatta ya know? some time in its past someone thought it would be good to put in a bilge alarm so they did a fantastic job of it drilling down the length of a bulkhead stud then grooving the back side of a frame and running the wires hidden with putty and paint all the way down to the lowest part of the bilge. where someone else decided it didnt need a bilge alarm and couldnt get the wire out so they just cut it off flush in that nice dry bilge. the boat gets a bit older and she tends to get a bit weepy from time to time that dry bilge gets a couple gallons of water in it and shorts things out. you would figure that this circut would be fused. since its an alarm its wired directly into the main buss and you dont have time to check it when your bridge goes dead you check it when you are safe at the dock by which time the wires are all dry and the thing works again. |
Surveys
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 09:46:49 -0800 (PST), wrote:
Agreed. Capitalism depends on strong morals, especially in the area of contracts My uncle the law school dean at Kansas U, told me that if a man's word is no good, neither is his contract. Also said a verbal contract is worth the paper it is written on. Casady |
Surveys
On 28 Nov 2008 19:08:02 -0600, Dave wrote:
On Thu, 27 Nov 2008 13:13:33 GMT, (Richard Casady) said: My uncle the law school dean at Kansas U, told me that if a man's word is no good, neither is his contract. Also said a verbal contract is worth the paper it is written on. All contracts are verbal. I assume he meant an oral contract. Interesting nit-pick. But current usage allows verbal to mean oral among several other meanings. (COD) So it's an academic distinction. Brian W |
Surveys
I dont get electrical surveys done at all, ever. there is not a used
boat on earth that does not need all the electrical ripped out and replaced. Sure, there's lots of them. Of course, there's usually something at least slightly amiss but if you have ZERO TOLERANCE for stuff that doesn't always work perfectly, then sailing is not for you (unless you are a true masochist). Two meter troll wrote: some time in its past someone thought it would be good to put in a bilge alarm so they did a fantastic job of it drilling down the length of a bulkhead stud then grooving the back side of a frame and running the wires hidden with putty and paint all the way down to the lowest part of the bilge. That's lovely, not only a total **** job by DPO but he apparently took pains to hide his handiwork. I love to buy boats from people who have no clue that structural elements are there for a reason. In fact I have a few acquaintances who indulge in this sort of dumbassery, but I don't sail with them unless the trip is short & the weather is nice. ... where someone else decided it didnt need a bilge alarm and couldnt get the wire out so they just cut it off flush in that nice dry bilge. the boat gets a bit older and she tends to get a bit weepy from time to time that dry bilge gets a couple gallons of water in it and shorts things out. you would figure that this circut would be fused. *since its an alarm its wired directly into the main buss and you dont have time to check it when your bridge goes dead you check it when you are safe at the dock by which time the wires are all dry and the thing works again. you must have very fast-drying wiring. Anyway ripping out all wiring and starting over from scratch is a lot of work. If I planned to do that, I'd probably want the boat to be free of for the seller to pay me to take it. There's lots & lots of boats out there that aren't so bad.... maybe if you did a careful survey of the electrical system first, you'd get a fair warning in time to go look elsewhere.... ;) Fresh Breezes- Doug King |
Surveys
On Nov 29, 8:19*am, wrote:
I dont get electrical surveys done at all, ever. there is not a used boat on earth that does not need all the electrical ripped out and replaced. Sure, there's lots of them. Of course, there's usually something at least slightly amiss but if you have ZERO TOLERANCE for stuff that doesn't always work perfectly, then sailing is not for you (unless you are a true masochist). Two meter troll wrote: some time in its past someone thought it would be good to put in a bilge alarm so they did a fantastic job of it drilling down the length of a bulkhead stud then grooving the back side of a frame and running the wires hidden with putty and paint all the way down to the lowest part of the bilge. That's lovely, not only a total **** job by DPO but he apparently took pains to hide his handiwork. I love to buy boats from people who have no clue that structural elements are there for a reason. In fact I have a few acquaintances who indulge in this sort of dumbassery, but I don't sail with them unless the trip is short & the weather is nice. ... where someone else decided it didnt need a bilge alarm and couldnt get the wire out so they just cut it off flush in that nice dry bilge. the boat gets a bit older and she tends to get a bit weepy from time to time that dry bilge gets a couple gallons of water in it and shorts things out. you would figure that this circut would be fused. *since its an alarm its wired directly into the main buss and you dont have time to check it when your bridge goes dead you check it when you are safe at the dock by which time the wires are all dry and the thing works again. you must have very fast-drying wiring. Anyway ripping out all wiring and starting over from scratch is a lot of work. If I planned to do that, I'd probably want the boat to be free of for the seller to pay me to take it. There's lots & lots of boats out there that aren't so bad.... maybe if you did a careful survey of the electrical system first, you'd get a fair warning in time to go look elsewhere.... *;) Fresh Breezes- Doug King na i liked the boat she was a gem just had a few quirks to work out. I have "zero tolerance" in some areas. one of which is electrons, the other of which is Hydraulics. i rip them out a replace them with systems i know are tight and will work the way they ought. i spend way to much time offshore to want the worry of those two systems going gunnysacks. rigging i can make, sails i can sew, engines i can rebuild normal plumbing i can fix but if it sparks or has high pressure leaks i want it good before i cast off. |
Surveys
On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 16:35:11 -0800 (PST), Two meter troll
wrote: On Nov 29, 8:19*am, wrote: I dont get electrical surveys done at all, ever. there is not a used boat on earth that does not need all the electrical ripped out and replaced. Sure, there's lots of them. Of course, there's usually something at least slightly amiss but if you have ZERO TOLERANCE for stuff that doesn't always work perfectly, then sailing is not for you (unless you are a true masochist). Two meter troll wrote: some time in its past someone thought it would be good to put in a bilge alarm so they did a fantastic job of it drilling down the length of a bulkhead stud then grooving the back side of a frame and running the wires hidden with putty and paint all the way down to the lowest part of the bilge. That's lovely, not only a total **** job by DPO but he apparently took pains to hide his handiwork. I love to buy boats from people who have no clue that structural elements are there for a reason. In fact I have a few acquaintances who indulge in this sort of dumbassery, but I don't sail with them unless the trip is short & the weather is nice. ... where someone else decided it didnt need a bilge alarm and couldnt get the wire out so they just cut it off flush in that nice dry bilge. the boat gets a bit older and she tends to get a bit weepy from time to time that dry bilge gets a couple gallons of water in it and shorts things out. you would figure that this circut would be fused. *since its an alarm its wired directly into the main buss and you dont have time to check it when your bridge goes dead you check it when you are safe at the dock by which time the wires are all dry and the thing works again. you must have very fast-drying wiring. Anyway ripping out all wiring and starting over from scratch is a lot of work. If I planned to do that, I'd probably want the boat to be free of for the seller to pay me to take it. There's lots & lots of boats out there that aren't so bad.... maybe if you did a careful survey of the electrical system first, you'd get a fair warning in time to go look elsewhere.... *;) Fresh Breezes- Doug King na i liked the boat she was a gem just had a few quirks to work out. I have "zero tolerance" in some areas. one of which is electrons, the other of which is Hydraulics. i rip them out a replace them with systems i know are tight and will work the way they ought. i spend way to much time offshore to want the worry of those two systems going gunnysacks. rigging i can make, sails i can sew, engines i can rebuild normal plumbing i can fix but if it sparks or has high pressure leaks i want it good before i cast off. My perhaps irrelevant experience with farm and construction hydraulics is that most leaks can be fixed with a slight turn of a wrench, the notable exception is leaks around the piston rod, but one shouldn't take dubious stuff offshore. Or anywhere. As for wiring, in fifty years, nobody ever got any of the Turbocraft's wiring wet. Or screwed with it. So what would I know about problems with wiring ? Keeping the wires up to snuff is easy with a trouble free fresh water, lake type, runabout.and I count my blessings. No trouble whatever for fifty years. Working on wiring in a moving boat could be a nightmare. My hair is too long to crawl into tight places with a torch. My experience with working on boats is on the beach or the hoist. or the trailer. All rock steady. My workbench has a 4 inch thick oak top and weighs hundreds. German. Steady is good. Casady |
Surveys
On Nov 29, 8:07*pm, (Richard Casady)
wrote: On Sat, 29 Nov 2008 16:35:11 -0800 (PST), Two meter troll wrote: On Nov 29, 8:19*am, wrote: I dont get electrical surveys done at all, ever. there is not a used boat on earth that does not need all the electrical ripped out and replaced. Sure, there's lots of them. Of course, there's usually something at least slightly amiss but if you have ZERO TOLERANCE for stuff that doesn't always work perfectly, then sailing is not for you (unless you are a true masochist). Two meter troll wrote: some time in its past someone thought it would be good to put in a bilge alarm so they did a fantastic job of it drilling down the length of a bulkhead stud then grooving the back side of a frame and running the wires hidden with putty and paint all the way down to the lowest part of the bilge. That's lovely, not only a total **** job by DPO but he apparently took pains to hide his handiwork. I love to buy boats from people who have no clue that structural elements are there for a reason. In fact I have a few acquaintances who indulge in this sort of dumbassery, but I don't sail with them unless the trip is short & the weather is nice. ... where someone else decided it didnt need a bilge alarm and couldnt get the wire out so they just cut it off flush in that nice dry bilge. the boat gets a bit older and she tends to get a bit weepy from time to time that dry bilge gets a couple gallons of water in it and shorts things out. you would figure that this circut would be fused. *since its an alarm its wired directly into the main buss and you dont have time to check it when your bridge goes dead you check it when you are safe at the dock by which time the wires are all dry and the thing works again. you must have very fast-drying wiring. Anyway ripping out all wiring and starting over from scratch is a lot of work. If I planned to do that, I'd probably want the boat to be free of for the seller to pay me to take it. There's lots & lots of boats out there that aren't so bad.... maybe if you did a careful survey of the electrical system first, you'd get a fair warning in time to go look elsewhere.... *;) Fresh Breezes- Doug King na i liked the boat she was a gem just had a few quirks to work out. I have "zero tolerance" in some areas. one of which is electrons, the other of which is Hydraulics. i rip them out a replace them with systems i know are tight and will work the way they ought. i spend way to much time offshore to want the worry of those two systems going gunnysacks. rigging i can make, sails i can sew, engines i can rebuild normal plumbing i can fix but if it sparks or has high pressure leaks i want it good before i cast off. My perhaps irrelevant experience with farm and construction hydraulics is that most leaks can be fixed with a slight turn of a wrench, the notable exception is leaks around the piston rod, but one shouldn't take dubious stuff offshore. Or anywhere. As for wiring, in fifty years, nobody ever got any of the Turbocraft's wiring wet. Or screwed with it. So what would I know about problems with wiring ? Keeping the wires up to snuff is easy with a trouble free fresh water, lake type, runabout.and I count my blessings. No trouble whatever for fifty years. Working on wiring in a moving boat could be a nightmare. My hair is too long to crawl into tight places with a torch. My experience with working on boats is on the beach or the hoist. or the trailer. All rock steady. My workbench has a 4 inch thick oak top and weighs hundreds. German. Steady is good. Casady- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - not irrelivent my experiance is super high low systems on arresting gear and the ******* systems on fishing boats. |
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