"Roger Long" wrote in
:

The last column in the current issue of PC magazine is an obituary for
Usenet. This group, and others like it, are now like CB radio in the
early 1980's. There are still a few die hards out there talking but
the airwaves are gradually going quiet.

10-4 good buddy. What's your 20?....

It's very true. If you look at the amount of traffic (excluding the
"binaries" groups) that usenet generates, you'll see that it's on a
steady/rapid decline. Ask the average person if they know what a newsgroup
is and you'll probably get a blank stare. Even among my computer savvy
friends, very few of them still use newgroups.

In reality, why? The interface is clunky. Message threads are lost unless
you use deja news (groups.google.com) to search them. Many groups are
loaded with spam. The user interface technology has improved massively
since news was created. It's death and/or lack of relevance is purely just
a matter of time.

-- Geoff
www.GeoffSchultz.org

In article , Geoff Schultz wrote:

It's very true. If you look at the amount of traffic (excluding the
"binaries" groups) that usenet generates, you'll see that it's on a
steady/rapid decline. Ask the average person if they know what a newsgroup
is and you'll probably get a blank stare. Even among my computer savvy
friends, very few of them still use newgroups.

In reality, why? The interface is clunky. Message threads are lost unless
you use deja news (groups.google.com) to search them. Many groups are
loaded with spam. The user interface technology has improved massively
since news was created. It's death and/or lack of relevance is purely just
a matter of time.

UI technology may have improved some software, but my newsreader is
still great, $DEITY knows how long after it was first created, there is
no need for a point an click GUI, it's not possible to make it easier to
use with a mouse.

I find usenet so much better to follow than a web forum. I hate those
things. Too many bouncy smilies, (l)users whose 'avatar' has to me an
animated GIF that is (if you're lucky) worth seeing once, but loops
endlessly and is a distracting as hell and makes you want to actually
kill the person because, of course, they are a prolific poster and you
can't browse the forum without seeing it a million times. Then there are
the flashing banner ads so many forums carry to generate revenue. The
lack of decent threading, the almost total disregard of context quoting.
The fact that "this is the interface, if you don't like it create your
own forum", whereas with usenet it's "here is a newsfeed, use it how you
like" - GUI, text, braille, text-to-speech (OK, you can do some of those
with a web-forum, but, in my experiments here with a Mac, speaking will
start at the top of the page and read all the adverts before it gets to
the post). Damn, I *hate* those things.

Justin.

--
Justin C, by the sea.

On 2008-11-20 16:48:14 -0500, Justin C said:

UI technology may have improved some software, but my newsreader is
still great, $DEITY knows how long after it was first created, there is
no need for a point an click GUI, it's not possible to make it easier to
use with a mouse.

I like having a variety of options. About all I use are the mouse and a
scroll-wheel. Programmed the keys so the left thumb is back, right
finger forward. No need to reach for function keys, etc.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-à-Deux -- Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD
Xan's pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI trips & tips: http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 01:51:09 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:

On 2008-11-20 16:48:14 -0500, Justin C said:

UI technology may have improved some software, but my newsreader is
still great, $DEITY knows how long after it was first created, there is
no need for a point an click GUI, it's not possible to make it easier to
use with a mouse.

I like having a variety of options. About all I use are the mouse and a
scroll-wheel. Programmed the keys so the left thumb is back, right
finger forward. No need to reach for function keys, etc.

People who are in a hurry know that the less they use the mouse and
the more they use the keys, the faster they get around. Mouse is
certainly easier, but it is also a lot SLOWER.

wrote:
On Fri, 21 Nov 2008 01:51:09 GMT, Jere Lull wrote:


On 2008-11-20 16:48:14 -0500, Justin C said:


UI technology may have improved some software, but my newsreader is
still great, $DEITY knows how long after it was first created, there is
no need for a point an click GUI, it's not possible to make it easier to
use with a mouse.

I like having a variety of options. About all I use are the mouse and a
scroll-wheel. Programmed the keys so the left thumb is back, right
finger forward. No need to reach for function keys, etc.


People who are in a hurry know that the less they use the mouse and
the more they use the keys, the faster they get around. Mouse is
certainly easier, but it is also a lot SLOWER.

Keyboard shortcuts are quickest for repeated complicated tasks, but for
something simple like browsing a newsgroup, a multi-button mouse with
some of those shortcuts programmed on the extra buttons on a per
application basis is actually *quicker*. I used to read this group
using a joystick interface gamepad with *lots* of extra buttons, but it
died amd I now have to settle for a five button mouse :-(

wrote:

Your problem is that you are further handicapped by a poor newsreader.
Real, dedicated newsreaders are blazing fast and easy to navigate with
keystrokes.

Thats as may be. I'm used to its quirks though. I dont see that a
dedicated reader is going to be much better with the s/n ratio where its
at at the moment in most groups. If you hang out in groups where 90% of
the threads are due to spammers, lusers, mutating sockpuppets and other
wastes of bandwidth, how do you quickly select the threads you want from
the keyboard? Once I've found something worth reading, I'm effectively
in keyboard navigation mode till the end of the good stuff. Here's
hoping things improve next spring post-inaugeration, because I'm in
danger of wearing out my K key.

In article , IanM wrote:
wrote:

Your problem is that you are further handicapped by a poor newsreader.
Real, dedicated newsreaders are blazing fast and easy to navigate with
keystrokes.

Thats as may be. I'm used to its quirks though. I dont see that a
dedicated reader is going to be much better with the s/n ratio where its
at at the moment in most groups. If you hang out in groups where 90% of
the threads are due to spammers, lusers, mutating sockpuppets and other
wastes of bandwidth, how do you quickly select the threads you want from
the keyboard? Once I've found something worth reading, I'm effectively
in keyboard navigation mode till the end of the good stuff. Here's
hoping things improve next spring post-inaugeration, because I'm in
danger of wearing out my K key.

Ah, now there's the hidden benefit of a "real" newsreader: a proper
kill-file (aka scorefile). I don't what you are complaining of, all
cross-posts are automatically killed. I only see Wilbur when someone
quotes what he says. I can kill be subject, author, or any other header.
I can kill threads started by someone who's in the kill-file so that I
don't see all the OT stuff where people reply to the troll.

A good score file (to use the proper name for a change), allows me to
score certain keywords regularly used in subject lines, or certain
authors, so, for example, if I'm very interested in what Skip is up to I
just give him a score above zero and he's automatically at the top of
the list (Wilbur and cross-posters don't even show up). Also, if I'm
interested in fuel polishing, but not, for example when Roger comments
on the subject (sorry Roger, just an example), I can score fuel
polishing highly, but Roger in conjuction with fuel polishing gets a
negative score. OK, I very *very* rearely go to these extremes, but a
few minutes with a text editor can make a high-traffic group so much
easier to follow. Normally it's just "K-A-A-enter" and I never see
another post from that author again.

My newsreader starts up with the groups sorted in the usual order I like
ot read them, space-bar twice opens the first article in the first
group, I can then read the whole rest of all news by just hitting the
space bar with the occasional 'n' to skip something I don't want to
read.

This has really gone off topic, I'm sorry. I've been an enjoyer of
usenet for about thirteen years and I'm very passionate about it as a
medium - probably because I hate the alternative so much.

Justin.

--
Justin C, by the sea, who also prefers IRC to other "instant messenger"
type programs, and was happy with a text-based email program until he
got a Mac ... actually, I can't see much advantage of a GUI for that
either.
Yeah, go on, call me a luddite.