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#2
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Assistance with steam bending kayak ribs
Bruce in Bangkok wrote:
On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 10:16:26 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 20:29:09 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok wrote: On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 10:43:08 GMT, wrote: At Mystic Seaport, where the Amistad was built and the C. W. Morgan is currently being restored, they have stockpiles of Live Oak stored for years before it gets used. It's hard stuff to get in big enough sizes for these projects, as no one likes to cut them down. Katrina windfall supplied a lot of what will be used to replace ribs in the Morgan. By the time it gets used, I imagine it's pretty dried out. They have a sawmill on site as well as a huge steam bending rig. The Mystic Seaport website used to have a lot more information about the exhibits on it. http://www.mysticseaport.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.viewpage&page_id=05F7419 1-D78C-D0C6-64E2AB6C7E72F3B6 That is all well and good but I got my information from a Mr. Chester Carter who's family had built boats on and around Muscongus Bay since sometime in the 1600's. To be frank I will always have more trust in what he told me then what all the lads at Mystic Seaport say. I saw the half models his great grandfather had made dated in the 1700's (always wished I'd asked him for one) and the hand made tools he had inherited from his ancestors. No, I had a chance to learn a bit from an individual who's family had built boats in Maine for some 350 years, a considerably better education then I believe I could have gotten at Mystic. Captain Chester had built some 60-odd working boats with his own hands and had fished lobsters from a sloop and I'll stick with what he taught me. The "lads" at Mystic? Seems you have exactly NO idea what you are talking about. They have a LOT more knowledge and experience to draw upon than some little family operation in Maine building work boats. Has Mr. Chester built anything like the Amistad? Has he restored and maintained anything approaching the size and scope of the Morgan? The Mystic Seaport has. They have also accurately researched and restored a few hundred historical boats and ships. Your Mr. Chester could probaly learn quite a bit from them if he apprenticed himself for 30 or 40 years. You must think that I'm from Arkansas or some such place. I was born in New England and grew up there. Built (with a great deal of help from my father) my first boat when I was 10 years old. I am quite aware what Mystic is and what they do. I am also aware that a vast amount of their "research" as all research of old time stuff is, consisted of talking to people like the Morse family and the Carter family and other Maine boat builders and writing down what the old folks thought that they remembered about what Uncle Henry used to do. Well, I did the same "research" as they did, except I got the information from the guy that actually did it. Not from Uncle Henry's grand daughter. The trouble is that I'm old enough that I've seen some of the old timers and heard some of their stories. I've seen boat carpenters (as they called themselves) that could square a 12 inch timber with an adze and broad axe, not a power plane. People that had actually fastened the planking to a schooner hull with treenails, not just "researched" it. As far as "accurately researched" even Chapelle included lines in his books taken from hulks or boats badly out of shape. It make's one wonder how accurately some of these restorations would have been working from lines that were stated by the fellow that took them off to be in some part guess work. I'm not trying to denigrate anything that the Mystic people do I'm simply saying that what I learned I learned from the people that actually did it for a living. Bruce-in-Bangkok (correct email address for reply) My dad can beat up your dad! Come on guys, there's no real "sides" here. |
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#3
posted to rec.boats.building
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Assistance with steam bending kayak ribs
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 09:09:33 -0400, wrote:
On Wed, 16 Apr 2008 13:15:50 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok wrote: On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 10:16:26 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 20:29:09 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok wrote: On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 10:43:08 GMT, wrote: At Mystic Seaport, where the Amistad was built and the C. W. Morgan is currently being restored, they have stockpiles of Live Oak stored for years before it gets used. It's hard stuff to get in big enough sizes for these projects, as no one likes to cut them down. Katrina windfall supplied a lot of what will be used to replace ribs in the Morgan. By the time it gets used, I imagine it's pretty dried out. They have a sawmill on site as well as a huge steam bending rig. The Mystic Seaport website used to have a lot more information about the exhibits on it. http://www.mysticseaport.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.viewpage&page_id=05F7419 1-D78C-D0C6-64E2AB6C7E72F3B6 That is all well and good but I got my information from a Mr. Chester Carter who's family had built boats on and around Muscongus Bay since sometime in the 1600's. To be frank I will always have more trust in what he told me then what all the lads at Mystic Seaport say. I saw the half models his great grandfather had made dated in the 1700's (always wished I'd asked him for one) and the hand made tools he had inherited from his ancestors. No, I had a chance to learn a bit from an individual who's family had built boats in Maine for some 350 years, a considerably better education then I believe I could have gotten at Mystic. Captain Chester had built some 60-odd working boats with his own hands and had fished lobsters from a sloop and I'll stick with what he taught me. The "lads" at Mystic? Seems you have exactly NO idea what you are talking about. They have a LOT more knowledge and experience to draw upon than some little family operation in Maine building work boats. Has Mr. Chester built anything like the Amistad? Has he restored and maintained anything approaching the size and scope of the Morgan? The Mystic Seaport has. They have also accurately researched and restored a few hundred historical boats and ships. Your Mr. Chester could probaly learn quite a bit from them if he apprenticed himself for 30 or 40 years. You must think that I'm from Arkansas or some such place. I was born in New England and grew up there. Built (with a great deal of help from my father) my first boat when I was 10 years old. I am quite aware what Mystic is and what they do. I am also aware that a vast amount of their "research" as all research of old time stuff is, consisted of talking to people like the Morse family and the Carter family and other Maine boat builders and writing down what the old folks thought that they remembered about what Uncle Henry used to do. Well, I did the same "research" as they did, except I got the information from the guy that actually did it. Not from Uncle Henry's grand daughter. The trouble is that I'm old enough that I've seen some of the old timers and heard some of their stories. I've seen boat carpenters (as they called themselves) that could square a 12 inch timber with an adze and broad axe, not a power plane. People that had actually fastened the planking to a schooner hull with treenails, not just "researched" it. As far as "accurately researched" even Chapelle included lines in his books taken from hulks or boats badly out of shape. It make's one wonder how accurately some of these restorations would have been working from lines that were stated by the fellow that took them off to be in some part guess work. I'm not trying to denigrate anything that the Mystic people do I'm simply saying that what I learned I learned from the people that actually did it for a living. You clearly have no clue as to what The Dupont Preservation yard does at Mystic Seaport. It ain't really just book larnin'. These are among the very best and most knowlegeable "old school" shipwrights anywhere in the world. Your buddies couldn't begin to do what these folks do (for a living). If a guy who's family had built boats for 350 years "couldn't begin to do..." how did those guys learn how to do it? Did they climb a mountain and get some stones with the instructions carved on them? And, how is it that you are so knowledgable about how qualified a craftsman my old friend was? Do you have second sight? It is obvious that you are a "born again" boat builder and nothing done outside the fence at Mystic is of any value so lets just drop the whole thing. You troop down and take the sacraments every week and I'll stay home and steam bend wood. It is obvious that trying to carry out a conversation with you is about as productive as trying to talk to Osama. Bruce-in-Bangkok (correct email address for reply) |
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