On Feb 8, 12:37*am, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 7 Feb 2008 03:43:49 -0800 (PST),

wrote:
I am so sick of these "designers" selling boats and plans with illegal
non-flotation configurations.. Just my opinion...

I was under the impression that you could build whatever you want for
your own use.

The USCG regulations for small boats apply equally to home built boats
made for personal use, as for retail sales..

Safety Standards For Backyard Boat Builders - COMDTPUB P16761.3B

If you do a quick google you will find this document handy..

On Sun, 17 Feb 2008 08:49:40 -0800 (PST),
wrote:

On Feb 8, 12:37*am, Wayne.B wrote:
On Thu, 7 Feb 2008 03:43:49 -0800 (PST),

wrote:
I am so sick of these "designers" selling boats and plans with illegal
non-flotation configurations.. Just my opinion...

I was under the impression that you could build whatever you want for
your own use.

The USCG regulations for small boats apply equally to home built boats
made for personal use, as for retail sales..

Safety Standards For Backyard Boat Builders - COMDTPUB P16761.3B

If you do a quick google you will find this document handy..

Lots of good advice *but* here's a quote from the West System site at
http://www.westsystem.com/ewmag/18/tanks.html

====
While professional builders are bound by tough USCG regulations and
ABYC standards regarding tanks, backyard-boat builders have the option
to follow or disregard them. However, if the builder decides to sell
the boat, the federal regulations become applicable because he/she has
built the boat for the purposes of sale.
====

That is my understanding also.

From the introduction of COMDTPUB P16761.3B at
http://www.uscg.mil/d1/units/actny/p...dBoatBldrs.pdf

This pamphlet is routinely sent to new manufacturers of recreational
boats for the purposes of sale, because it gives a good explanation of
how to go about complying with certain portions of the Federal safety
standards and regulations.

On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 20:47:51 +0100, Heikki wrote:

Here is a simple idea: Add some straps to the fold-out design, and tie your
fenders under them when you use the dinghy. They give at least some
flotation, and may be easily available while your boat is on anchor
somewhere... Probably not living up to the legal requirements in some
places, but might work.

Sufficiet flotation would have obvious safety benefits, but even a
little would make the thing easier to find if ,you happrn to swamp it.
My dad lost my favorite boat when I was a kid. In twenty feet of frest
water.

Casady

"Richard Casady" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 20:47:51 +0100, Heikki wrote:

Here is a simple idea: Add some straps to the fold-out design, and tie
your
fenders under them when you use the dinghy. They give at least some
flotation, and may be easily available while your boat is on anchor
somewhere... Probably not living up to the legal requirements in some
places, but might work.

Sufficiet flotation would have obvious safety benefits, but even a
little would make the thing easier to find if ,you happrn to swamp it.
My dad lost my favorite boat when I was a kid. In twenty feet of frest
water.

Casady


Well I've finished mine, and it floats, completely full of water, even with
me sitting in it.
Did not surprise me, as plastic and plywood usually floats.
So I guess it does not need added floatation.
If someone was real worried about it, you could add foam water pipe tubing
to the top of the plywood sides.
2- 6 foot pieces of foam would easily hold 200 pds afloat.
We only use one in physical therapy, and it keeps my 180pds afloat.
Also foam would protect sides from dock rub.
If you used an outboard, then yes extra floatation would be needed, but I
row.

On Feb 20, 10:58*am, "us" wrote:
"Richard Casady" wrote in message

...





On Thu, 07 Feb 2008 20:47:51 +0100, Heikki wrote:

Here is a simple idea: Add some straps to the fold-out design, and tie
your
fenders under them when you use the dinghy. They give at least some
flotation, and may be easily available while your boat is on anchor
somewhere... Probably not living up to the legal requirements in some
places, but might work.

Sufficiet flotation would have obvious safety benefits, but even a
little would make the thing easier to find if ,you happrn to swamp it.
My dad lost my favorite boat when I was a kid. In twenty feet of frest
water.

Casady

Well I've finished mine, and it floats, completely full of water, even with
me sitting in it.
Did not surprise me, as plastic and plywood usually floats.
So I guess it does not need added floatation.
If someone was real worried about it, you could add foam water pipe tubing
to the top of the plywood sides.
2- 6 foot pieces of foam would easily hold 200 pds afloat.
We only use one in physical therapy, and it keeps my 180pds afloat.
Also foam would protect sides from dock rub.
If you used an outboard, then yes extra floatation would be needed, but I
row.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Well, exactly how many pounds of float does your boat have, full of
equipment, and your kids?

Seriously, when I first started building boats in my backyard nearly 2
decades ago I went through hell and the US Mail (no internet then) and
ordered the rules from a nice Commadant in Virginia. It was a book
nearly 4 inches thick and I got updates every year. You can all guess
what you want, but the regs are clear, and the USCG is still the
accepted regulator. The pamphlet I noted above is for any and all
boats built, weather sold or not, powered or not, even if many natural
powered are exempted, they are still addressed.. I won't argue with
you guys here.

Anyway, I always mumbled about the rules till I struck up a friendship
with a USCG rescue diver. He told me that in 20years he had never had
to come to the aid of a homebuilt. Now this was a long time ago,
before the internet brought this fine hobby to the masses who could
before then only watch from afar. But now it is different, anyone can
(and should) build a boat but not everyone is as versed in boats as
the old days when you had to learn from a builder and probably were a
pretty good boater to boot to take on such a project. The rules
accomodate folks that don't know, what they don't know and if they are
a little stringent, it allows for some leeway or mistakes by an
amateur builder so he can still have a safe boat. Take the
calculations for flotation for instance. If you follow the rules, and
many don't, putting all that flotation, in the configuration called
for by way of your calculattion, flotation can be a real pain in the
ass. It takes up a lot of room, and if you use the right stuff, it can
add a lot of cost to the build. And why the hell doesn't the USCG
understand that wood floats!?? Well they do, but with respect to the
average Joe, they don't include it for our own protection. Sure wood
floats, when it is is dry and new but folks have been known to float
around in less than dry hulls I know the cost of putting flotation,
especially in a small boat can equal the materials in the hull, but
it's part of the boat. I know, I have had to work it into dozens of
boats over the years. Makes it pretty hard to compete sometimes,
especially if other guys are selling illegal hulls..

There were some videos posted here several years back of a builders
meet. A couple of unfloated boats sank in a small pond with a slight
breeze. The guys could not get back in cause the boats did not have
proper flotation to be recovered, so these less than physical
specimens (with no jackets either) had to swim the boats back to
shore. After several minutes of getting nowhere with the breeze aginst
them, other boats came in a dragged them to shore. The one guy almost
dropped of a frekin' heart attack. If he had proper flotation in the
kayak, he could have gotten back in and bailed her out and saved the
boat. As it was if there had been no boats around on a larger lake,
these guys would have lost their boats, an one of them would have
probably died too...

Anyway to avoid or eliminate flotation after building a nice hull is
cheap and irresponsible,in my opinion. Noting personal, not everyone
feels as I do, so I won't throw stones here. But for the sake of
honesty, lets all know that all boats built, sold, or used in the US,
under 20 feet, are subject to these rules, for very good reasons.

Sorry this is so long, I am very busy and don't have time to go back
over it, but it is a very important subject. hope someone gets
something out of it...

Scotty from Smallboats.com...