Hi,

I've searched the archives of this group for a number of years and
always learn something new. I've been dreaming of building a small
sailboat for many years now and am finally starting to narrow my choices
down.

I need a small sailboat that can handle lake erie fishing weather; which
is a bit more than most recreational boaters like. My childhood memories
of fishing with my dad invovled leaving early in the morning with 2-3 ft
waves, by lunch those waves were 4+, and on returning home 6 or more
wasn't all that rare. This weather was always taken in a 22-26 ft
powerboat(bayliner). This is basically my standard of what a boat should
handle although it may never see it. The prospect of going 20 miles out
for walleye in a sail/rowing craft is rather daunting.

The boat should be able to be rowed as well as sailed; an engine is not
wanted. I have very little interest in fighting to cartop a boat and the
sizes I need are a little to heavy for that in my view. I want room for
a passenger or more. I'm looking at the 14-16 ft range but will go up to
about 21 if neccessary.

I will be first time builder and I feel plywood is the best choice for
time/cost. Feel free to convince me other wise. I also prefer a smaller
simpler boat for a freshmen effort. I'm more interested in traditional
form. It would be nice if I could build the boat in the winter then
assemble it in the spring, but this is not neccesary.

My choices a maybe a norwegian sailing pram 12-18 ft (not at all sure
about this one), a flat-iron skiff (parker's 14ft oystering sharpie),
and some type of swampscott dory.

Out of these 3 choices I know a swampscott will be able to do what I
want. I notice glen-l has a 18ft version of the beachcomber alpha. The
"oystering sharpie" looks like it would be a good sailer. I like the
prams but have no idea if they are up to what I want from a boat.

I'm a big fan of the dories but will build a flat-iron if it is
significantly easier/cheaper. The "oystering sharpie" is my favorite so
far.

matthew
ohio

On Sep 30, 8:02 am, MatthewK wrote:
Hi,

I need a small sailboat that can handle lake erie fishing weather; which
is a bit more than most recreational boaters like. matthew
ohio


Hi,

Find the boook titled, "American Small Sailing Craft" by Chappell.

Its filled with 10'-40' turn of the century working sailboats. Then
contact the Smitsonian Institute's Watercraft department and request a
"set of lines" for the boat you like. They have all the lines found in
the book Not sure how much they cost now but it was a few bucks each.
when id did that.

If you cant find the book just contact the Smithsonian and request
their Guide of Chappell's lines.

I I built and sailed the paint off a 15' sprit rigged dory. things I
learned:
It was a work boat.
Designed to sail best with 200 lbs of cod on board .
Did not sail to wind or tack that well.
Looked cool !
Rig was unstayed doug fir pole with lots of splits. I got the mast
from a discarded salmon trolling pole sitting in the parking lot of
Dock 5. Worked great and cheep plus stayed with the historic workboat
nature of the boat.
I learned a lot about boat and rig design cause everything was
traditional "work boat' fitted. ie galvanized awning pullies.

If you have kids or a wife I think you'ld have more fun if you bought
a 15' or 19' Potter. I they sail more smartly and are "nicer." AND you
can be sailing that weekend! Besides no need for 200 pounds of cod
sloshing around ur feet. Unless you are one of thoes guys who want to
take a great workboat design and *******ize it by creating a "musuem
display quality" jewlery boat to impress everyone but is too pretty to
knock around and get the 22 top coats of hand rubbed hightech stuff
stratched.

Personally, I was poor and wanted to learn. So I used a poor man's
design and fitted it accordingly.
Bob

* Bob wrote:

Find the boook titled, "American Small Sailing Craft" by Chappell.

Thanks, I have a copy and will look through it again.


I I built and sailed the paint off a 15' sprit rigged dory. things I
learned:
It was a work boat.
Designed to sail best with 200 lbs of cod on board .
Did not sail to wind or tack that well.
Looked cool !
Rig was unstayed doug fir pole with lots of splits. I got the mast
from a discarded salmon trolling pole sitting in the parking lot of
Dock 5. Worked great and cheep plus stayed with the historic workboat
nature of the boat.
I learned a lot about boat and rig design cause everything was
traditional "work boat' fitted. ie galvanized awning pullies.

Yeah...thats why as far as dories go I thought the beachcomber type was
good. I can balast is with a couple of sandbags. Parker says he modified
the flat-iron slightly to make it more suitable for recreation(the same
things he does to his sharpies).


If you have kids or a wife I think you'ld have more fun if you bought
a 15' or 19' Potter. I they sail more smartly and are "nicer." AND you
can be sailing that weekend! Besides no need for 200 pounds of cod
sloshing around ur feet. Unless you are one of thoes guys who want to
take a great workboat design and *******ize it by creating a "musuem
display quality" jewlery boat to impress everyone but is too pretty to
knock around and get the 22 top coats of hand rubbed hightech stuff
stratched.

I'm single and like paint. lol Putting bright work on a workboat is
lipstick on a pig to me. Cool boat recomendation though.

Personally, I was poor and wanted to learn. So I used a poor man's
design and fitted it accordingly.
Bob

This is basically the place I am now.

thanks again,
matthew

On Sep 30, 12:10 pm, MatthewK wrote:


I'm single and like paint. lol Putting bright work on a workboat is
lipstick on a pig to me. Cool boat recomendation though.

thanks again,
matthew

Hey Matthew:

Single.......... mmmmmmmm. Im about to be the same.. YES !

My dream boat would be a 40'+ leaboard scow in steel or Al. Now that
would be a beast to just beach and walk away for a day. The Alma in
SF, CA is one of the last. But way to big for single handed

* get som 3/8" CDX.
* Make a trasparency of some lines and put it on an overhead
projector. Trace the lines on heavy butcher paper taped to the
wall. Some will say the optics distort the lines. So........ fair it
wit ur i.
* Or do the transfer the table if offsets gig.
* Then stich and clue it together.
* Slap on some epoxy and cloth on the bottom and paint above the water
line. Maybe pine tar + turpintine + linseed the inside. But it get all
black and ucky. Hell, epoxy it!

Go sailing in a week. !
Then drag it behind your 10 year old subaru down to Baja and sail the
paint off it.
Thats what I did in 1982.

great time sailing, beach camping, snorkeling/spearfishing ....

Hope ya have some fun ! It all changes when you have kids. But now
mine is off to college with an athletic scholarship....!
Now its my turn.

See ya on the water
Bob

Bob wrote:

On Sep 30, 12:10 pm, MatthewK wrote:



I'm single and like paint. lol Putting bright work on a workboat is
lipstick on a pig to me. Cool boat recomendation though.


thanks again,
matthew


Hey Matthew:

Single.......... mmmmmmmm. Im about to be the same.. YES !

My dream boat would be a 40'+ leaboard scow in steel or Al. Now that
would be a beast to just beach and walk away for a day. The Alma in
SF, CA is one of the last. But way to big for single handed


Every time I look at William Garden's "Tillicum" scow schooner I
think the same thing.

On Sep 30, 11:02 am, MatthewK wrote:
Hi,

I've searched the archives of this group for a number of years and
always learn something new. I've been dreaming of building a small
sailboat for many years now and am finally starting to narrow my choices
down.

I need a small sailboat that can handle lake erie fishing weather; which
is a bit more than most recreational boaters like. My childhood memories
of fishing with my dad invovled leaving early in the morning with 2-3 ft
waves, by lunch those waves were 4+, and on returning home 6 or more
wasn't all that rare. This weather was always taken in a 22-26 ft
powerboat(bayliner). This is basically my standard of what a boat should
handle although it may never see it. The prospect of going 20 miles out
for walleye in a sail/rowing craft is rather daunting.

The boat should be able to be rowed as well as sailed; an engine is not
wanted. I have very little interest in fighting to cartop a boat and the
sizes I need are a little to heavy for that in my view. I want room for
a passenger or more. I'm looking at the 14-16 ft range but will go up to
about 21 if neccessary.

I will be first time builder and I feel plywood is the best choice for
time/cost. Feel free to convince me other wise. I also prefer a smaller
simpler boat for a freshmen effort. I'm more interested in traditional
form. It would be nice if I could build the boat in the winter then
assemble it in the spring, but this is not neccesary.

My choices a maybe a norwegian sailing pram 12-18 ft (not at all sure
about this one), a flat-iron skiff (parker's 14ft oystering sharpie),
and some type of swampscott dory.

Out of these 3 choices I know a swampscott will be able to do what I
want. I notice glen-l has a 18ft version of the beachcomber alpha. The
"oystering sharpie" looks like it would be a good sailer. I like the
prams but have no idea if they are up to what I want from a boat.

I'm a big fan of the dories but will build a flat-iron if it is
significantly easier/cheaper. The "oystering sharpie" is my favorite so
far.

matthew
ohio

Remembering you will be a first time builder, with some skills I would
suggest you look at "The Dory Book" by John Gardner (Available from
Mystic Seaport, CT USA) The Dories of the North East sound like just
what you are looking for. The double ended sailing/rowing dories built
down east are some of the most sound rough weather boats you can find.
Sailing, rowing, surf, these boats can do it all, comfortably, and
efficiently. Elegant boats, all of them. Since you have no interest in
a motor, I would look at the double enders. Banks and St Pierre's are
simpler builds, But a Hammond, Dion, or Chamberlin sailing dory would
in my opinion be doable by you as well as being the best tool for your
boating needs in my opinion...

I should note that I have the book in my lap for reference as I type,
I can't just spew this stuff off from my head although I would like to
think I could

On Oct 1, 12:08 pm, wrote:
On Sep 30, 11:02 am, MatthewK wrote:





Hi,

I've searched the archives of this group for a number of years and
always learn something new. I've been dreaming of building a small
sailboat for many years now and am finally starting to narrow my choices
down.

I need a small sailboat that can handle lake erie fishing weather; which
is a bit more than most recreational boaters like. My childhood memories
of fishing with my dad invovled leaving early in the morning with 2-3 ft
waves, by lunch those waves were 4+, and on returning home 6 or more
wasn't all that rare. This weather was always taken in a 22-26 ft
powerboat(bayliner). This is basically my standard of what a boat should
handle although it may never see it. The prospect of going 20 miles out
for walleye in a sail/rowing craft is rather daunting.

The boat should be able to be rowed as well as sailed; an engine is not
wanted. I have very little interest in fighting to cartop a boat and the
sizes I need are a little to heavy for that in my view. I want room for
a passenger or more. I'm looking at the 14-16 ft range but will go up to
about 21 if neccessary.

I will be first time builder and I feel plywood is the best choice for
time/cost. Feel free to convince me other wise. I also prefer a smaller
simpler boat for a freshmen effort. I'm more interested in traditional
form. It would be nice if I could build the boat in the winter then
assemble it in the spring, but this is not neccesary.

My choices a maybe a norwegian sailing pram 12-18 ft (not at all sure
about this one), a flat-iron skiff (parker's 14ft oystering sharpie),
and some type of swampscott dory.

Out of these 3 choices I know a swampscott will be able to do what I
want. I notice glen-l has a 18ft version of the beachcomber alpha. The
"oystering sharpie" looks like it would be a good sailer. I like the
prams but have no idea if they are up to what I want from a boat.

I'm a big fan of the dories but will build a flat-iron if it is
significantly easier/cheaper. The "oystering sharpie" is my favorite so
far.

matthew
ohio

Remembering you will be a first time builder, with some skills I would
suggest you look at "The Dory Book" by John Gardner (Available from
Mystic Seaport, CT USA) The Dories of the North East sound like just
what you are looking for. The double ended sailing/rowing dories built
down east are some of the most sound rough weather boats you can find.
Sailing, rowing, surf, these boats can do it all, comfortably, and
efficiently. Elegant boats, all of them. Since you have no interest in
a motor, I would look at the double enders. Banks and St Pierre's are
simpler builds, But a Hammond, Dion, or Chamberlin sailing dory would
in my opinion be doable by you as well as being the best tool for your
boating needs in my opinion...

I should note that I have the book in my lap for reference as I type,
I can't just spew this stuff off from my head although I would like to
think I could- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

I would like to add the note that there are several more elaborate
boats in the book, but I tried to look at the 2-4 plank hulls,
remembering he is a first time builder... The 13 foot Chamberlin is my
personal favorite but might be a little small for his needs, and a
little daunting to the first timer. But now that I look at it the
Chamberlin Gunning dory and Beachcomber Alpha are only 4 plank too
done in plywood. Sorry to have been in so much of a hurry, gotta' go.

* wrote:
On Oct 1, 12:08 pm, wrote:

I would like to add the note that there are several more elaborate
boats in the book, but I tried to look at the 2-4 plank hulls,
remembering he is a first time builder... The 13 foot Chamberlin is my
personal favorite but might be a little small for his needs, and a
little daunting to the first timer. But now that I look at it the
Chamberlin Gunning dory and Beachcomber Alpha are only 4 plank too
done in plywood. Sorry to have been in so much of a hurry, gotta' go.

Thanks for taking the time to post this. I love the dory book. I've
looked at some the designs again with glued-seam batten construction
again it really opens some doors.

The only thing that was putting me off with the dory was the more
traditional construction...but seem batten outgha work ok for me.
Personally they only dories I have considered is the hammond, dion, and
swampscott type.

thanks
matthew

On Oct 1, 1:24 pm, MatthewK wrote:
* wrote:
On Oct 1, 12:08 pm, wrote:

I would like to add the note that there are several more elaborate
boats in the book, but I tried to look at the 2-4 plank hulls,
remembering he is a first time builder... The 13 foot Chamberlin is my
personal favorite but might be a little small for his needs, and a
little daunting to the first timer. But now that I look at it the
Chamberlin Gunning dory and Beachcomber Alpha are only 4 plank too
done in plywood. Sorry to have been in so much of a hurry, gotta' go.

Thanks for taking the time to post this. I love the dory book. I've
looked at some the designs again with glued-seam batten construction
again it really opens some doors.

The only thing that was putting me off with the dory was the more
traditional construction...but seem batten outgha work ok for me.
Personally they only dories I have considered is the hammond, dion, and
swampscott type.

thanks
matthew

Of the three, I like Fred Dions Swampscott best. A little prouder than
the Hammond and possibly a more easily transferred to seam batten hull
to build.. In my opinion I would suggest however if you go seam
batten and modern materials, you try to keep some of the weight in the
structure to retain origionally engineered handling characteristics...

On Sep 30, 11:02 am, MatthewK wrote:
Hi,

I need a small sailboat that can handle lake erie fishing weather; which
is a bit more than most recreational boaters like. My childhood memories
of fishing with my dad invovled leaving early in the morning with 2-3 ft
waves, by lunch those waves were 4+, and on returning home 6 or more
wasn't all that rare. This weather was always taken in a 22-26 ft
powerboat(bayliner). This is basically my standard of what a boat should
handle although it may never see it. The prospect of going 20 miles out
for walleye in a sail/rowing craft is rather daunting.

Lake Erie is shallow and known for rough conditions. Are you sure you
want a light displacment sailboat for recreational fishing? When
fishing was done from small sailboats the boats were heavy and slow to
stand up to rough weather. A search of the Internet should turn up
some info. Also, coastal fishermen relied on tides to get them in and
out as much as wind. Winds are fickle. You may not want to be a few
miles out when the wind drops. I lived in Toronto where Lake Ontario
never got warm enough for recreational swimmings. There are small boat
sailing clubs on the lakeshore and I wonder how long people can
survive in the water when capsized. There would seem to be some
special design considerations for anyone who wants to use a sallboat
for Great Lakes sport fishing.