On Feb 15, 9:08 am, "Don White" wrote:
"Larry" wrote in message

...



"Skip Gundlach" wrote in
oups.com:

effectively $500 a week

Isn't this the same reason, insurance paying, that a hospital bed to just
lay there and die is $400/day and every doctor in the building comes by
to "say hi" and charges $250 every time he pokes his head in the door and
smiles at you. (Every doctor in Orangeburg, SC, pulled this crap on my
father who was dying at Orangeburg Regional Medical Center, a profit
center for the medical profession to be sure.

It's how doctors afford yachts, waterfront mansions, fancy cars, cruises
to exotic places....

I call it "victimization". You're in a position of helplessness and
"they", be they doctors or lawyers or boatyards or tradesmen you are
forced by circumstances to hire quickly to fix something threatening your
home....feeding at the insurance and victims' tits, sucking as hard as
they can for as long as they can milk it.

CEOs do the same thing to the stockholders....sucking as hard as they can
on the company's tit, milking it for all they can get, until they either
get fired and move on to the next board meeting or drive the company,
like Enron, into bankruptcy.

It's the American way! This boatyard is sucking on it just as hard as
any of the rest of the milksuckers.....like bankers.

Larry
--

It's almost as if everyone expects the gravy train to end soon and they have
to grab as much for themselves as possible.
Where's the long term planning? If the Big 3 American car manufacturers are
doing do badly, why are their CEOs hauling in so much money?
The whole system is rotten and our children will pay for it.

"Somebody" should call the yard and ask them to relay a message from
his insurance company to Skip Gundlach that coverage beyond 3 more
days is being denied. Even if the yard calls the insurance company
back I bet they will have sufficient doubt that they WANT to get rid
of Flying Pig ASAP.

Don ,,, I may be going over to the other side ,, but... in my opinion, our
country is on the brink of coming apart. Everything is broken, the whole
system. Health care, the government spending, the war in Iraq, our
industys, ....

Great speech by Bill Moyers recently.. read it ,, you can find it on the
net.

Powerful stuff.

=================
"Don White" wrote in message
...

"Larry" wrote in message
...
"Skip Gundlach" wrote in
ups.com:

effectively $500 a week

Isn't this the same reason, insurance paying, that a hospital bed to just
lay there and die is $400/day and every doctor in the building comes by
to "say hi" and charges $250 every time he pokes his head in the door and
smiles at you. (Every doctor in Orangeburg, SC, pulled this crap on my
father who was dying at Orangeburg Regional Medical Center, a profit
center for the medical profession to be sure.

It's how doctors afford yachts, waterfront mansions, fancy cars, cruises
to exotic places....

I call it "victimization". You're in a position of helplessness and
"they", be they doctors or lawyers or boatyards or tradesmen you are
forced by circumstances to hire quickly to fix something threatening your
home....feeding at the insurance and victims' tits, sucking as hard as
they can for as long as they can milk it.

CEOs do the same thing to the stockholders....sucking as hard as they can
on the company's tit, milking it for all they can get, until they either
get fired and move on to the next board meeting or drive the company,
like Enron, into bankruptcy.

It's the American way! This boatyard is sucking on it just as hard as
any of the rest of the milksuckers.....like bankers.

Larry
--

It's almost as if everyone expects the gravy train to end soon and they
have to grab as much for themselves as possible.
Where's the long term planning? If the Big 3 American car manufacturers
are doing do badly, why are their CEOs hauling in so much money?
The whole system is rotten and our children will pay for it.

I remember in '75 when the country was coming apart. Plenty of people
said the country couldn't last five years the way things were going. The
ecomomy was supposed to collapse if nuclear war didn't get us first.

Stephen

NE Sailboat wrote:
Don ,,, I may be going over to the other side ,, but... in my opinion, our
country is on the brink of coming apart. Everything is broken, the whole
system. Health care, the government spending, the war in Iraq, our
industys, ....

Great speech by Bill Moyers recently.. read it ,, you can find it on the
net.

Powerful stuff.

=================
"Don White" wrote in message
...

"Larry" wrote in message
. ..

"Skip Gundlach" wrote in
groups.com:


effectively $500 a week

Isn't this the same reason, insurance paying, that a hospital bed to just
lay there and die is $400/day and every doctor in the building comes by
to "say hi" and charges $250 every time he pokes his head in the door and
smiles at you. (Every doctor in Orangeburg, SC, pulled this crap on my
father who was dying at Orangeburg Regional Medical Center, a profit
center for the medical profession to be sure.

It's how doctors afford yachts, waterfront mansions, fancy cars, cruises
to exotic places....

I call it "victimization". You're in a position of helplessness and
"they", be they doctors or lawyers or boatyards or tradesmen you are
forced by circumstances to hire quickly to fix something threatening your
home....feeding at the insurance and victims' tits, sucking as hard as
they can for as long as they can milk it.

CEOs do the same thing to the stockholders....sucking as hard as they can
on the company's tit, milking it for all they can get, until they either
get fired and move on to the next board meeting or drive the company,
like Enron, into bankruptcy.

It's the American way! This boatyard is sucking on it just as hard as
any of the rest of the milksuckers.....like bankers.

Larry
--

It's almost as if everyone expects the gravy train to end soon and they
have to grab as much for themselves as possible.
Where's the long term planning? If the Big 3 American car manufacturers
are doing do badly, why are their CEOs hauling in so much money?
The whole system is rotten and our children will pay for it.

Stephen,, we are in a whole lot worse off shape than 1975.

Never in our history has the difference in wealth between the rich and the
poor ( all of the rest of America ) but so great.

We have millions of illegals running around and the federal government won't
even protect the border and enforce the immigration laws.

Then there is the mess in the middle east.

Oh, I forgot... check out what the government is spending and the debt it is
amassing.


Do you think a bank in the USA would get away with giving illegals who have
entered our county by sneaking in a credit card ..

Do you think that would happen in 1975? It is happening now! Bank of
America.

I sorry to say it,, but I really don't give us much of a chance to continue.



=============

"Stephen Trapani" wrote in message
...
I remember in '75 when the country was coming apart. Plenty of people said
the country couldn't last five years the way things were going. The ecomomy
was supposed to collapse if nuclear war didn't get us first.

Stephen

NE Sailboat wrote:
Don ,,, I may be going over to the other side ,, but... in my opinion,
our country is on the brink of coming apart. Everything is broken, the
whole system. Health care, the government spending, the war in Iraq, our
industys, ....

Great speech by Bill Moyers recently.. read it ,, you can find it on the
net.

Powerful stuff.

=================
"Don White" wrote in message
...

"Larry" wrote in message
...

"Skip Gundlach" wrote in
egroups.com:


effectively $500 a week

Isn't this the same reason, insurance paying, that a hospital bed to
just
lay there and die is $400/day and every doctor in the building comes by
to "say hi" and charges $250 every time he pokes his head in the door
and
smiles at you. (Every doctor in Orangeburg, SC, pulled this crap on my
father who was dying at Orangeburg Regional Medical Center, a profit
center for the medical profession to be sure.

It's how doctors afford yachts, waterfront mansions, fancy cars, cruises
to exotic places....

I call it "victimization". You're in a position of helplessness and
"they", be they doctors or lawyers or boatyards or tradesmen you are
forced by circumstances to hire quickly to fix something threatening
your
home....feeding at the insurance and victims' tits, sucking as hard as
they can for as long as they can milk it.

CEOs do the same thing to the stockholders....sucking as hard as they
can
on the company's tit, milking it for all they can get, until they either
get fired and move on to the next board meeting or drive the company,
like Enron, into bankruptcy.

It's the American way! This boatyard is sucking on it just as hard as
any of the rest of the milksuckers.....like bankers.

Larry
--

It's almost as if everyone expects the gravy train to end soon and they
have to grab as much for themselves as possible.
Where's the long term planning? If the Big 3 American car manufacturers
are doing do badly, why are their CEOs hauling in so much money?
The whole system is rotten and our children will pay for it.

Followup...

An apology is in order. I've already apologized to the owners, Mike
and Sharon, but those who saw my original comments under this title
should have additional information:

A week ago, we were still sleep deprived, and in full panic mode.
From all appearances, we would not only lose our home, we'd have huge
bills to settle outside of our insurance coverage.

Today, we're optimistic, somewhat more rested, and looking forward to
the future.

Nothing has changed, really, other than the insurance specification
which has allowed us to keep our home - but pay for everything out of
pocket. Yet, as the huge majority of costs, as expected, would have
been labor, if we do all but the particularly skilled work (which we'd
have to engage professionals to do) ourselves, the costs can be
manageable.

The salvage company will still have to be paid, but, after all, they
did successfully retrieve our home, with minimal damage in the
process.

The yard will have to be paid, and at rates which are different than
those to which we're accustomed - and yet, the costs of literally
everything in the keys are radically higher than most places we've
been. So, those are just the costs of doing business in the middle
keys. As the owners were candid to say, part of the pricing model is
to encourage decisions. Quite possibly, had it not been for our
conversation a few days after we arrived, we'd still be trying to
figure out what to do.

Instead, we quickly came to a decision to make 'emergency repairs' -
work which would allow us to get back in the water as quickly as
possible - and limp back to St. Petersburg where we could do more
thorough repairs.

So, we talked to the contractor on the premises who specializes in
Fiberglass work, Bob Hardy. We told him what we had in mind, and
indicated that we could do the work ourselves, if he'd be willing to
consult. He readily agreed, and pointed out what we'd have to do in
the way of grinding, and said he'd be back in a day or two.

We did, and he did. Except he came loaded for bear. If you ever need
fiberglass work, I can heartily recommend this man. Singlehandedly
(well, except for the time he was doing a rudder frame, when he had a
drill in one hand and a jigsaw in the other), in less than a week,
he's got Flying Pig not just emergency repaired, but ready for bottom
paint. If I can get a good connection, I'll have the last pictures up
later tonight. Many are already there.

The best we could do was stay out of his way. So, aside from handing
him stuff occasionally, we did just that. What he's done I doubt we
could do (to the same level of quality, let alone have the right
materials available), but to even try would have taken us months. In
the end, we won't have to do anything further at all on a structural
level to the outside of the boat - it's ready to put bottom paint on,
make cosmetic paint adjustments to the topsides, and that's it!

So, for the ground price here of a few months of storage up north, but
at a massive reduction in costs had we tried to hire the work in St.
Petersburg, using our prior talented folks, we're going to be leaving
very soon. In the end, a bargain, indeed, both financially and
psychically, as to have our 8-year dream and three-year refit come to
an apparent violent end really did a number on our minds.

A week ago, I tried to find the owners to apologize for my calumny,
and in particular the fallout from those of you who emailed Keys Boat
Works, feeling we needed protection, but they'd already left on a trip
to see grandkids. I managed to find them as soon as they returned,
and, ever gracious, they accepted my apology and we moved on. I
suspect they see a fair share of folks in similar situations - about
to lose their only home, and fully traumatized by the experience,
sleep deprived, and otherwise, perhaps, not presenting their normal
selves. In any case, I was appropriately appalled at my prior
behavior, and they were inappropriately much more than gracious - I'm
not sure that in the same situation, I would have been as kind...

So, the adventure continues. We'll lick our wounds, be undyingly
grateful for the outpouring of assistance and support received from
the cruising community, and, we hope, emerge better seamen/women for
it all.

Thanks again, to all.

L8R

Skip and Lydia

Morgan 461 #2 Disaster link: http://ipphotos.com/FlyingPig.asp
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things
you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

Captain ,, even if the marina owners have turned out to be less of the
crooks you originally thought they were/are..

I would never go anywhere near the place.

In fact, your whole calamity has been a good learning lesson for me. I am
planning on a cruise to Florida and the Islands maybe next year. I will on
the east side of Florida. The keys? I'm kinda doubting it at this point.


================================================== ============
"Skip Gundlach" wrote in message
oups.com...
Followup...

An apology is in order. I've already apologized to the owners, Mike
and Sharon, but those who saw my original comments under this title
should have additional information:

A week ago, we were still sleep deprived, and in full panic mode.
From all appearances, we would not only lose our home, we'd have huge
bills to settle outside of our insurance coverage.

Today, we're optimistic, somewhat more rested, and looking forward to
the future.

Nothing has changed, really, other than the insurance specification
which has allowed us to keep our home - but pay for everything out of
pocket. Yet, as the huge majority of costs, as expected, would have
been labor, if we do all but the particularly skilled work (which we'd
have to engage professionals to do) ourselves, the costs can be
manageable.

The salvage company will still have to be paid, but, after all, they
did successfully retrieve our home, with minimal damage in the
process.

The yard will have to be paid, and at rates which are different than
those to which we're accustomed - and yet, the costs of literally
everything in the keys are radically higher than most places we've
been. So, those are just the costs of doing business in the middle
keys. As the owners were candid to say, part of the pricing model is
to encourage decisions. Quite possibly, had it not been for our
conversation a few days after we arrived, we'd still be trying to
figure out what to do.

Instead, we quickly came to a decision to make 'emergency repairs' -
work which would allow us to get back in the water as quickly as
possible - and limp back to St. Petersburg where we could do more
thorough repairs.

So, we talked to the contractor on the premises who specializes in
Fiberglass work, Bob Hardy. We told him what we had in mind, and
indicated that we could do the work ourselves, if he'd be willing to
consult. He readily agreed, and pointed out what we'd have to do in
the way of grinding, and said he'd be back in a day or two.

We did, and he did. Except he came loaded for bear. If you ever need
fiberglass work, I can heartily recommend this man. Singlehandedly
(well, except for the time he was doing a rudder frame, when he had a
drill in one hand and a jigsaw in the other), in less than a week,
he's got Flying Pig not just emergency repaired, but ready for bottom
paint. If I can get a good connection, I'll have the last pictures up
later tonight. Many are already there.

The best we could do was stay out of his way. So, aside from handing
him stuff occasionally, we did just that. What he's done I doubt we
could do (to the same level of quality, let alone have the right
materials available), but to even try would have taken us months. In
the end, we won't have to do anything further at all on a structural
level to the outside of the boat - it's ready to put bottom paint on,
make cosmetic paint adjustments to the topsides, and that's it!

So, for the ground price here of a few months of storage up north, but
at a massive reduction in costs had we tried to hire the work in St.
Petersburg, using our prior talented folks, we're going to be leaving
very soon. In the end, a bargain, indeed, both financially and
psychically, as to have our 8-year dream and three-year refit come to
an apparent violent end really did a number on our minds.

A week ago, I tried to find the owners to apologize for my calumny,
and in particular the fallout from those of you who emailed Keys Boat
Works, feeling we needed protection, but they'd already left on a trip
to see grandkids. I managed to find them as soon as they returned,
and, ever gracious, they accepted my apology and we moved on. I
suspect they see a fair share of folks in similar situations - about
to lose their only home, and fully traumatized by the experience,
sleep deprived, and otherwise, perhaps, not presenting their normal
selves. In any case, I was appropriately appalled at my prior
behavior, and they were inappropriately much more than gracious - I'm
not sure that in the same situation, I would have been as kind...

So, the adventure continues. We'll lick our wounds, be undyingly
grateful for the outpouring of assistance and support received from
the cruising community, and, we hope, emerge better seamen/women for
it all.

Thanks again, to all.

L8R

Skip and Lydia

Morgan 461 #2 Disaster link: http://ipphotos.com/FlyingPig.asp
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things
you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain