Jere ,, funny .. I just read in the paper that foreclosers were going up up
up...

In fact, in some areas the real estate market is heading for the toilet.

Doesn't seem to bother the federal government. They just keep giving out
raises, big old pensions, etc.


We are doomed.


ps.. full discloser.. I don't owe a penny to anyone. No mortgage, no boat
loan, no car loan ,,, nothing.


========
"Jere Lull" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Larry wrote:

"NE Sailboat" wrote in
news:Sf6Bh.4960$H77.944@trndny08:

And as the taxes go up and up and the middle class disappears,
government continues to give out huge pensions, and keep on
spending.



Here's how bad it is: http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/ 8.724
Trillion dollars

"The National Debt has continued to increase an average of $1.57
billion per day since September 29, 2006!"

No one will listen when I say the root cause of American collapse is
the Federal Reserve Bankers! They have consumed the country and
stolen the gold. It's gone and cannot be recovered without bloody
revolution...just like every other time in history.

Guys and gals, I won't debate this subject, but offer that many of us
carry primary mortgages well in excess of our annual income, and that's
not generally considered a bad thing. (I admit that rec.boats.cruising
is atypical.)

The total national debt is a much smaller fraction of the US gross
income (GNP) than most of us carry personally. A slight difference of
dollar value would wipe that debt out, as occurred in the Clinton years.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's NEW Pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

NE Sailboat wrote:
Jere ,, funny .. I just read in the paper that foreclosers were going up up
up...

In fact, in some areas the real estate market is heading for the toilet.

Doesn't seem to bother the federal government. They just keep giving out
raises, big old pensions, etc.


We are doomed.


ps.. full discloser.. I don't owe a penny to anyone. No mortgage, no boat
loan, no car loan ,,, nothing.


And therein lies the problem! If you would run out and buy a new
house, new car, new boat, hdtv, etc, you would be putting a whole bunch
of people to work! Solves all the problems, ;) Well, except YOUR new ones!
Gordon

On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 02:00:59 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
wrote:

ps.. full discloser.. I don't owe a penny to anyone. No mortgage, no boat
loan, no car loan ,,, nothing.

No wonder you are always complaining about money or the lack there of.

You're not enjoying the power of leverage.

That is really funny .. the power of leverage! hahaha ,, this is killing
me.

If I guy goes to a bank and borrows $100,000 the bank owns him.

But if a guy goes to the bank and borrows $1,000,000,000 then he owns the
bank.

That is the power of leverage.



=======================

Try living debt free. It is an incredible feeling. I know, I had a
mortgage, car loan, personal loan, the you name it loan..

Then I started to just pay them off. One day; no more loans.

I took the money that was going to the loan and paid myself in investment
savings. Every month, just like the mortgage.

The next thing you know ... wow. Look at all that savings.

It really isn't hard. Just takes some discipline.


====================================
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 02:00:59 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
wrote:

ps.. full discloser.. I don't owe a penny to anyone. No mortgage, no boat
loan, no car loan ,,, nothing.

No wonder you are always complaining about money or the lack there of.

You're not enjoying the power of leverage.

NE Sailboat wrote:
That is really funny .. the power of leverage! hahaha ,, this is killing
me.

If I guy goes to a bank and borrows $100,000 the bank owns him.

But if a guy goes to the bank and borrows $1,000,000,000 then he owns the
bank.

That is the power of leverage.



=======================

Try living debt free. It is an incredible feeling. I know, I had a
mortgage, car loan, personal loan, the you name it loan..

Then I started to just pay them off. One day; no more loans.

I took the money that was going to the loan and paid myself in investment
savings. Every month, just like the mortgage.

The next thing you know ... wow. Look at all that savings.

It really isn't hard. Just takes some discipline.


====================================
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 02:00:59 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
wrote:


ps.. full discloser.. I don't owe a penny to anyone. No mortgage, no boat
loan, no car loan ,,, nothing.

No wonder you are always complaining about money or the lack there of.

You're not enjoying the power of leverage.




It takes more than a million for you to own the bank.

Don't ask me how i know....

--
“TAANSTAFL”

__________________________________________________ __________________________
Something to think about, from a wise man now long dead….:

“In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes
here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he
shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an
outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or
birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person’s becoming
in every facet an American, and nothing but an American.
“There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an
American, but something else also, isn’t an American at all.
“We have room for but one flag, the American flag. We have room for but
one language here, and that is the English language and we have room for
but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.”
--Theodore Roosevelt...1907

__________________________________________________ __________________________

"A prudent man foresees the difficulties ahead and prepares for them;
The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences." - Proverbs 22:3
__________________________________________________ __________________________

Consumer debt becomes slavery, yes. But that is not "leverage." "Leverage"
is borrowing money and earning more from that money than the interest you'll
have to pay back. That is the source of true monetary wealth. And yes, it
most certainly does work. You just have to be smart about it.


"NE Sailboat" wrote in message
news:Ej9Bh.5873$5M1.2110@trndny01...
That is really funny .. the power of leverage! hahaha ,, this is killing
me.

If I guy goes to a bank and borrows $100,000 the bank owns him.

But if a guy goes to the bank and borrows $1,000,000,000 then he owns
the bank.

That is the power of leverage.



=======================

Try living debt free. It is an incredible feeling. I know, I had a
mortgage, car loan, personal loan, the you name it loan..

Then I started to just pay them off. One day; no more loans.

I took the money that was going to the loan and paid myself in investment
savings. Every month, just like the mortgage.

The next thing you know ... wow. Look at all that savings.

It really isn't hard. Just takes some discipline.


====================================
"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 02:00:59 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
wrote:

ps.. full discloser.. I don't owe a penny to anyone. No mortgage, no
boat
loan, no car loan ,,, nothing.

No wonder you are always complaining about money or the lack there of.

You're not enjoying the power of leverage.

Followup...

An apology is in order. I've already apologized to the owners, Mike
and Sharon, but those who saw my original comments under this title
should have additional information:

A week ago, we were still sleep deprived, and in full panic mode.
From all appearances, we would not only lose our home, we'd have huge
bills to settle outside of our insurance coverage.

Today, we're optimistic, somewhat more rested, and looking forward to
the future.

Nothing has changed, really, other than the insurance specification
which has allowed us to keep our home - but pay for everything out of
pocket. Yet, as the huge majority of costs, as expected, would have
been labor, if we do all but the particularly skilled work (which we'd
have to engage professionals to do) ourselves, the costs can be
manageable.

The salvage company will still have to be paid, but, after all, they
did successfully retrieve our home, with minimal damage in the
process.

The yard will have to be paid, and at rates which are different than
those to which we're accustomed - and yet, the costs of literally
everything in the keys are radically higher than most places we've
been. So, those are just the costs of doing business in the middle
keys. As the owners were candid to say, part of the pricing model is
to encourage decisions. Quite possibly, had it not been for our
conversation a few days after we arrived, we'd still be trying to
figure out what to do.

Instead, we quickly came to a decision to make 'emergency repairs' -
work which would allow us to get back in the water as quickly as
possible - and limp back to St. Petersburg where we could do more
thorough repairs.

So, we talked to the contractor on the premises who specializes in
Fiberglass work, Bob Hardy. We told him what we had in mind, and
indicated that we could do the work ourselves, if he'd be willing to
consult. He readily agreed, and pointed out what we'd have to do in
the way of grinding, and said he'd be back in a day or two.

We did, and he did. Except he came loaded for bear. If you ever need
fiberglass work, I can heartily recommend this man. Singlehandedly
(well, except for the time he was doing a rudder frame, when he had a
drill in one hand and a jigsaw in the other), in less than a week,
he's got Flying Pig not just emergency repaired, but ready for bottom
paint. If I can get a good connection, I'll have the last pictures up
later tonight. Many are already there.

The best we could do was stay out of his way. So, aside from handing
him stuff occasionally, we did just that. What he's done I doubt we
could do (to the same level of quality, let alone have the right
materials available), but to even try would have taken us months. In
the end, we won't have to do anything further at all on a structural
level to the outside of the boat - it's ready to put bottom paint on,
make cosmetic paint adjustments to the topsides, and that's it!

So, for the ground price here of a few months of storage up north, but
at a massive reduction in costs had we tried to hire the work in St.
Petersburg, using our prior talented folks, we're going to be leaving
very soon. In the end, a bargain, indeed, both financially and
psychically, as to have our 8-year dream and three-year refit come to
an apparent violent end really did a number on our minds.

A week ago, I tried to find the owners to apologize for my calumny,
and in particular the fallout from those of you who emailed Keys Boat
Works, feeling we needed protection, but they'd already left on a trip
to see grandkids. I managed to find them as soon as they returned,
and, ever gracious, they accepted my apology and we moved on. I
suspect they see a fair share of folks in similar situations - about
to lose their only home, and fully traumatized by the experience,
sleep deprived, and otherwise, perhaps, not presenting their normal
selves. In any case, I was appropriately appalled at my prior
behavior, and they were inappropriately much more than gracious - I'm
not sure that in the same situation, I would have been as kind...

So, the adventure continues. We'll lick our wounds, be undyingly
grateful for the outpouring of assistance and support received from
the cruising community, and, we hope, emerge better seamen/women for
it all.

Thanks again, to all.

L8R

Skip and Lydia

Morgan 461 #2 Disaster link: http://ipphotos.com/FlyingPig.asp
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things
you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

Captain ,, even if the marina owners have turned out to be less of the
crooks you originally thought they were/are..

I would never go anywhere near the place.

In fact, your whole calamity has been a good learning lesson for me. I am
planning on a cruise to Florida and the Islands maybe next year. I will on
the east side of Florida. The keys? I'm kinda doubting it at this point.


================================================== ============
"Skip Gundlach" wrote in message
oups.com...
Followup...

An apology is in order. I've already apologized to the owners, Mike
and Sharon, but those who saw my original comments under this title
should have additional information:

A week ago, we were still sleep deprived, and in full panic mode.
From all appearances, we would not only lose our home, we'd have huge
bills to settle outside of our insurance coverage.

Today, we're optimistic, somewhat more rested, and looking forward to
the future.

Nothing has changed, really, other than the insurance specification
which has allowed us to keep our home - but pay for everything out of
pocket. Yet, as the huge majority of costs, as expected, would have
been labor, if we do all but the particularly skilled work (which we'd
have to engage professionals to do) ourselves, the costs can be
manageable.

The salvage company will still have to be paid, but, after all, they
did successfully retrieve our home, with minimal damage in the
process.

The yard will have to be paid, and at rates which are different than
those to which we're accustomed - and yet, the costs of literally
everything in the keys are radically higher than most places we've
been. So, those are just the costs of doing business in the middle
keys. As the owners were candid to say, part of the pricing model is
to encourage decisions. Quite possibly, had it not been for our
conversation a few days after we arrived, we'd still be trying to
figure out what to do.

Instead, we quickly came to a decision to make 'emergency repairs' -
work which would allow us to get back in the water as quickly as
possible - and limp back to St. Petersburg where we could do more
thorough repairs.

So, we talked to the contractor on the premises who specializes in
Fiberglass work, Bob Hardy. We told him what we had in mind, and
indicated that we could do the work ourselves, if he'd be willing to
consult. He readily agreed, and pointed out what we'd have to do in
the way of grinding, and said he'd be back in a day or two.

We did, and he did. Except he came loaded for bear. If you ever need
fiberglass work, I can heartily recommend this man. Singlehandedly
(well, except for the time he was doing a rudder frame, when he had a
drill in one hand and a jigsaw in the other), in less than a week,
he's got Flying Pig not just emergency repaired, but ready for bottom
paint. If I can get a good connection, I'll have the last pictures up
later tonight. Many are already there.

The best we could do was stay out of his way. So, aside from handing
him stuff occasionally, we did just that. What he's done I doubt we
could do (to the same level of quality, let alone have the right
materials available), but to even try would have taken us months. In
the end, we won't have to do anything further at all on a structural
level to the outside of the boat - it's ready to put bottom paint on,
make cosmetic paint adjustments to the topsides, and that's it!

So, for the ground price here of a few months of storage up north, but
at a massive reduction in costs had we tried to hire the work in St.
Petersburg, using our prior talented folks, we're going to be leaving
very soon. In the end, a bargain, indeed, both financially and
psychically, as to have our 8-year dream and three-year refit come to
an apparent violent end really did a number on our minds.

A week ago, I tried to find the owners to apologize for my calumny,
and in particular the fallout from those of you who emailed Keys Boat
Works, feeling we needed protection, but they'd already left on a trip
to see grandkids. I managed to find them as soon as they returned,
and, ever gracious, they accepted my apology and we moved on. I
suspect they see a fair share of folks in similar situations - about
to lose their only home, and fully traumatized by the experience,
sleep deprived, and otherwise, perhaps, not presenting their normal
selves. In any case, I was appropriately appalled at my prior
behavior, and they were inappropriately much more than gracious - I'm
not sure that in the same situation, I would have been as kind...

So, the adventure continues. We'll lick our wounds, be undyingly
grateful for the outpouring of assistance and support received from
the cruising community, and, we hope, emerge better seamen/women for
it all.

Thanks again, to all.

L8R

Skip and Lydia

Morgan 461 #2 Disaster link: http://ipphotos.com/FlyingPig.asp
SV Flying Pig KI4MPC
See our galleries at www.justpickone.org/skip/gallery !
Follow us at http://groups.google.com/group/flyingpiglog and/or
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheFlyingPigLog

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things
you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 16 Feb 2007 02:00:59 GMT, "NE Sailboat"
wrote:

ps.. full discloser.. I don't owe a penny to anyone. No mortgage, no boat
loan, no car loan ,,, nothing.

No wonder you are always complaining about money or the lack there of.

You're not enjoying the power of leverage.

In article Ej9Bh.5873$5M1.2110@trndny01,
"NE Sailboat" wrote:

Try living debt free. It is an incredible feeling. I know, I had a
mortgage, car loan, personal loan, the you name it loan..

Then I started to just pay them off. One day; no more loans.

I took the money that was going to the loan and paid myself in investment
savings. Every month, just like the mortgage.

The next thing you know ... wow. Look at all that savings.

It really isn't hard. Just takes some discipline.

My parents lived during the depression as well. Got married in '35.

"Leverage" allows you to use something you can't afford -- as long as
your economic circumstances don't decline. Most I know who are depending
on that are working hard to stay ahead of the payments.

We, on the other hand, are comfortable on a single income from a company
that doesn't pay me what I'm worth, but gives me over 7 weeks' vacation
a year and helps me use it. Meanwhile, about 30% of that single income
is going into retirement investments. When a deer totaled the car, we
bought with cash. We have 6-12 months' cruising kitty in liquid funds,
and plan to use it the next time I'm "between jobs".

That, to me, is true wealth.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's NEW Pages: http://web.mac.com/jerelull/iWeb/Xan/
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/