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  #31   Report Post  
Doug Dotson
 
Posts: n/a
Default Noise and generators

Alternator is a PowerTap PT59. Can;t remember the specifics
about the belt but I seem to recall it is a Goodyear that I had
to special order from Canada. Not that the type of belt was unusual
but the length was for some reason. I ordered 4 so I would always
have some spares.

Doug
s/v Callista

"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 23:33:42 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:

All I can cite is the fact that I have run a 160 amp alternator
on a single belt for about 4 years. No slip, no squeel, and
full output when needed.


===================================

What kind of alternator and what kind of belt?



  #32   Report Post  
Larry W4CSC
 
Posts: n/a
Default Noise and generators

Wayne.B wrote in
news
On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 08:50:10 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:

You can go up to a 160 amp alternator without having to
resort to a large frame dual belt model.

========================================

Doug, can you cite some references on that? I've never heard of
anyone recommending 100+ amps without dual belts. I used to run a 120
amp Balmar on one of my old sailboats with a single belt. Frankly it
left a lot to be desired even at 50 to 60 amps - lots of squealing and
chewed up belts. It would never get even remotely close to 100 amps,
even for short periods. The belt slip was just too much for it.



Lionheart's big alternator has only one belt on the alternator's crooked
pulley. It only draws 100+ amps for a few minutes, so if you keep the belt
tight it's fine.

Why does everyone think a 200A alternator is going to charge house
batteries at full current for 20 minutes and end up with a fully-charged
set of house batteries? That's CRAZY! The amount of current it will draw
has NOTHING to do with the peak current an alternator puts out. The
alternator puts out its rated output until the battery voltage rises
somewhere near the regulator's set voltage, then the current drops
DRASTICALLY to a more sane level to safely charge the plates. A surface
charge quickly raises the voltage, then the real charging begins SLOWLY
creating the chemical reaction, we hope, that recovers most of the lead
sulphate in solution back to lead plates before it crystalizes and falls
into the bilge of the battery.

Your boat can no more fully charge your boat battery at really high
currents than your local garage can fully charge your car battery in 20
minutes. It's just a SURFACE charge! To fully charge the house batteries
takes HOURS of SLOW charging to re-plate the lead which takes TIME!!

Sorry......

Larry

The funniest thing at any marina is a boater with a new 4KW inverter
carrying his electric heater down the dock with a big smile on his face.
  #33   Report Post  
Wayne.B
 
Posts: n/a
Default Noise and generators

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 11:11:47 -0000, Larry W4CSC
wrote:
To fully charge the house batteries
takes HOURS of SLOW charging to re-plate the lead which takes TIME!!


==========================================

That's true for a 100% full charge, but a more typical recharge going
from 50% up to 75%, only takes a little over an hour with a high
output charging system.

  #34   Report Post  
Jeff Morris
 
Posts: n/a
Default Noise and generators

I agree - the affect Larry describes happens, but is not that pronounced. My
system (4 6-Volt golf bats, 100 Amp Balmar, Link 2000R) charges initially at a
bit over 80 Amps, but spends about an hour gradually dropping through the 70's.
When the charge rate goes under 70 Amps, the bank is at about 80%.


"Wayne.B" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 11:11:47 -0000, Larry W4CSC
wrote:
To fully charge the house batteries
takes HOURS of SLOW charging to re-plate the lead which takes TIME!!


==========================================

That's true for a 100% full charge, but a more typical recharge going
from 50% up to 75%, only takes a little over an hour with a high
output charging system.



  #35   Report Post  
Skip Gundlach
 
Posts: n/a
Default Noise and generators

Hi, Group(s)...

This and other recent responses (left below for reference) just reinforce my
thoughts on wind and solar. Where we're going, wind is nearly a given, all
the time, and sunshine, too, for many hours a day. A constant (well,
continuous) input at an appropriate rate seems to me to be the best
charging, assuming you have the capacity to keep however much you are
charging, up.

I loved Steve's comment about his fridge running because he'd forgotten to
shut it off when he disconnected the batteries, and the solar panels were
keeping up with the draw.

I'd a whole lot rather keep the batteries topped up and the engine(s) off.
I'm into quiet in a big way. Even if it weren't entirely sufficient,
perhaps the engine running could be limited to times per week rather than
times per day.

So, back to an earlier place, I'm getting more serious about the possibility
of sale (see earlier for details, and my URL for some pix) of the genset.
The few K it might be worth would go a long way toward the installation of a
proper arch for solar and wind - and along the way I'd have what I've been
told are a very good and pretty pricey set of davits available, too! Maybe
selling the davits would allow another battery bank (after the genset left
to provide the space, of course!).

L8R

Skip, and Lydia, by proxy

PS for those who ca I'm doing absolutely famously post-op on my shoulder
surgery. Checkup is in 4 days, and active rehab begins in 4 weeks. If it's
anything like what I've experienced so far, we may have to move our
timetable back up!

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2

"And then again, when you sit at the helm of your little ship on a
clear night, and gaze at the countless stars overhead, and realize
that you are quite alone on a great, wide sea, it is apt to occur to
you that in the general scheme of things you are merely an
insignificant speck on the surface of the ocean; and are not nearly
so important or as self-sufficient as you thought you were. Which is
an exceedingly wholesome thought, and one that may effect a
permanent change in your deportment that will be greatly appreciated
by your friends." - James S. Pitkin

"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote in
news
On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 08:50:10 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:

You can go up to a 160 amp alternator without having to
resort to a large frame dual belt model.

========================================

Doug, can you cite some references on that? I've never heard of
anyone recommending 100+ amps without dual belts. I used to run a 120
amp Balmar on one of my old sailboats with a single belt. Frankly it
left a lot to be desired even at 50 to 60 amps - lots of squealing and
chewed up belts. It would never get even remotely close to 100 amps,
even for short periods. The belt slip was just too much for it.



Lionheart's big alternator has only one belt on the alternator's crooked
pulley. It only draws 100+ amps for a few minutes, so if you keep the

belt
tight it's fine.

Why does everyone think a 200A alternator is going to charge house
batteries at full current for 20 minutes and end up with a fully-charged
set of house batteries? That's CRAZY! The amount of current it will draw
has NOTHING to do with the peak current an alternator puts out. The
alternator puts out its rated output until the battery voltage rises
somewhere near the regulator's set voltage, then the current drops
DRASTICALLY to a more sane level to safely charge the plates. A surface
charge quickly raises the voltage, then the real charging begins SLOWLY
creating the chemical reaction, we hope, that recovers most of the lead
sulphate in solution back to lead plates before it crystalizes and falls
into the bilge of the battery.

Your boat can no more fully charge your boat battery at really high
currents than your local garage can fully charge your car battery in 20
minutes. It's just a SURFACE charge! To fully charge the house batteries
takes HOURS of SLOW charging to re-plate the lead which takes TIME!!

Sorry......

Larry

The funniest thing at any marina is a boater with a new 4KW inverter
carrying his electric heater down the dock with a big smile on his face.





  #36   Report Post  
Doug Dotson
 
Posts: n/a
Default Noise and generators

COmments Below.

Doug
s/v CAllista

"Skip Gundlach" wrote in
message ...
Hi, Group(s)...

This and other recent responses (left below for reference) just reinforce

my
thoughts on wind and solar. Where we're going, wind is nearly a given,

all
the time, and sunshine, too, for many hours a day. A constant (well,
continuous) input at an appropriate rate seems to me to be the best
charging, assuming you have the capacity to keep however much you are
charging, up.


Continuous isn;t a requirement, but enought to keep up is. If wind and solar
is continuous then just a decent alternator should be able to fill in the
gaps.

I loved Steve's comment about his fridge running because he'd forgotten to
shut it off when he disconnected the batteries, and the solar panels were
keeping up with the draw.


Why did you love that? A decent set of solar panels can keep up with
typical constant-cycling fridge units as they only draw about 5 amps.

I'd a whole lot rather keep the batteries topped up and the engine(s) off.
I'm into quiet in a big way. Even if it weren't entirely sufficient,
perhaps the engine running could be limited to times per week rather than
times per day.


That is entirely possible, we look forward to that mode.

So, back to an earlier place, I'm getting more serious about the

possibility
of sale (see earlier for details, and my URL for some pix) of the genset.
The few K it might be worth would go a long way toward the installation of

a
proper arch for solar and wind - and along the way I'd have what I've been
told are a very good and pretty pricey set of davits available, too!

Maybe
selling the davits would allow another battery bank (after the genset left
to provide the space, of course!).

L8R

Skip, and Lydia, by proxy

PS for those who ca I'm doing absolutely famously post-op on my

shoulder
surgery. Checkup is in 4 days, and active rehab begins in 4 weeks. If

it's
anything like what I've experienced so far, we may have to move our
timetable back up!

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2

"And then again, when you sit at the helm of your little ship on a
clear night, and gaze at the countless stars overhead, and realize
that you are quite alone on a great, wide sea, it is apt to occur to
you that in the general scheme of things you are merely an
insignificant speck on the surface of the ocean; and are not nearly
so important or as self-sufficient as you thought you were. Which is
an exceedingly wholesome thought, and one that may effect a
permanent change in your deportment that will be greatly appreciated
by your friends." - James S. Pitkin

"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote in
news
On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 08:50:10 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:

You can go up to a 160 amp alternator without having to
resort to a large frame dual belt model.

========================================

Doug, can you cite some references on that? I've never heard of
anyone recommending 100+ amps without dual belts. I used to run a 120
amp Balmar on one of my old sailboats with a single belt. Frankly it
left a lot to be desired even at 50 to 60 amps - lots of squealing and
chewed up belts. It would never get even remotely close to 100 amps,
even for short periods. The belt slip was just too much for it.



Lionheart's big alternator has only one belt on the alternator's crooked
pulley. It only draws 100+ amps for a few minutes, so if you keep the

belt
tight it's fine.

Why does everyone think a 200A alternator is going to charge house
batteries at full current for 20 minutes and end up with a fully-charged
set of house batteries? That's CRAZY! The amount of current it will

draw
has NOTHING to do with the peak current an alternator puts out. The
alternator puts out its rated output until the battery voltage rises
somewhere near the regulator's set voltage, then the current drops
DRASTICALLY to a more sane level to safely charge the plates. A surface
charge quickly raises the voltage, then the real charging begins SLOWLY
creating the chemical reaction, we hope, that recovers most of the lead
sulphate in solution back to lead plates before it crystalizes and falls
into the bilge of the battery.

Your boat can no more fully charge your boat battery at really high
currents than your local garage can fully charge your car battery in 20
minutes. It's just a SURFACE charge! To fully charge the house

batteries
takes HOURS of SLOW charging to re-plate the lead which takes TIME!!

Sorry......

Larry

The funniest thing at any marina is a boater with a new 4KW inverter
carrying his electric heater down the dock with a big smile on his face.





  #37   Report Post  
Andrew and Carmen Foster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Noise and generators

Just make sure solar panels are mounted flat as mine are mounted on an angle
and if prevailing wind is in the wrong direction they do not pick up much
sun.
"Skip Gundlach" wrote in
message ...
Hi, Group(s)...

This and other recent responses (left below for reference) just reinforce

my
thoughts on wind and solar. Where we're going, wind is nearly a given,

all
the time, and sunshine, too, for many hours a day. A constant (well,
continuous) input at an appropriate rate seems to me to be the best
charging, assuming you have the capacity to keep however much you are
charging, up.

I loved Steve's comment about his fridge running because he'd forgotten to
shut it off when he disconnected the batteries, and the solar panels were
keeping up with the draw.

I'd a whole lot rather keep the batteries topped up and the engine(s) off.
I'm into quiet in a big way. Even if it weren't entirely sufficient,
perhaps the engine running could be limited to times per week rather than
times per day.

So, back to an earlier place, I'm getting more serious about the

possibility
of sale (see earlier for details, and my URL for some pix) of the genset.
The few K it might be worth would go a long way toward the installation of

a
proper arch for solar and wind - and along the way I'd have what I've been
told are a very good and pretty pricey set of davits available, too!

Maybe
selling the davits would allow another battery bank (after the genset left
to provide the space, of course!).

L8R

Skip, and Lydia, by proxy

PS for those who ca I'm doing absolutely famously post-op on my

shoulder
surgery. Checkup is in 4 days, and active rehab begins in 4 weeks. If

it's
anything like what I've experienced so far, we may have to move our
timetable back up!

--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2

"And then again, when you sit at the helm of your little ship on a
clear night, and gaze at the countless stars overhead, and realize
that you are quite alone on a great, wide sea, it is apt to occur to
you that in the general scheme of things you are merely an
insignificant speck on the surface of the ocean; and are not nearly
so important or as self-sufficient as you thought you were. Which is
an exceedingly wholesome thought, and one that may effect a
permanent change in your deportment that will be greatly appreciated
by your friends." - James S. Pitkin

"Larry W4CSC" wrote in message
...
Wayne.B wrote in
news
On Wed, 23 Jun 2004 08:50:10 -0400, "Doug Dotson"
wrote:

You can go up to a 160 amp alternator without having to
resort to a large frame dual belt model.

========================================

Doug, can you cite some references on that? I've never heard of
anyone recommending 100+ amps without dual belts. I used to run a 120
amp Balmar on one of my old sailboats with a single belt. Frankly it
left a lot to be desired even at 50 to 60 amps - lots of squealing and
chewed up belts. It would never get even remotely close to 100 amps,
even for short periods. The belt slip was just too much for it.



Lionheart's big alternator has only one belt on the alternator's crooked
pulley. It only draws 100+ amps for a few minutes, so if you keep the

belt
tight it's fine.

Why does everyone think a 200A alternator is going to charge house
batteries at full current for 20 minutes and end up with a fully-charged
set of house batteries? That's CRAZY! The amount of current it will

draw
has NOTHING to do with the peak current an alternator puts out. The
alternator puts out its rated output until the battery voltage rises
somewhere near the regulator's set voltage, then the current drops
DRASTICALLY to a more sane level to safely charge the plates. A surface
charge quickly raises the voltage, then the real charging begins SLOWLY
creating the chemical reaction, we hope, that recovers most of the lead
sulphate in solution back to lead plates before it crystalizes and falls
into the bilge of the battery.

Your boat can no more fully charge your boat battery at really high
currents than your local garage can fully charge your car battery in 20
minutes. It's just a SURFACE charge! To fully charge the house

batteries
takes HOURS of SLOW charging to re-plate the lead which takes TIME!!

Sorry......

Larry

The funniest thing at any marina is a boater with a new 4KW inverter
carrying his electric heater down the dock with a big smile on his face.





  #38   Report Post  
Old Nick
 
Posts: n/a
Default Noise and generators

On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 08:35:17 GMT, "Andrew and Carmen Foster"
vaguely proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Just make sure solar panels are mounted flat as mine are mounted on an angle
and if prevailing wind is in the wrong direction they do not pick up much
sun.

I've heard of sound being affected by wind, but _sunlight_? G
  #39   Report Post  
James
 
Posts: n/a
Default Noise and generators


"Old Nick" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 08:35:17 GMT, "Andrew and Carmen Foster"
vaguely proposed a theory



Just make sure solar panels are mounted flat as mine are mounted on an

angle
and if prevailing wind is in the wrong direction they do not pick up much
sun.

I've heard of sound being affected by wind, but _sunlight_? G


If the solar panels aint producing any voltage... the fridge is silent


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