Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

Ytter wrote:

I've heard different opinions what kind of wire is better for wiring
boats.Could you give me some of your expertise?
Thank You,
Ytter


Use tinned, stranded wire. The stranded wire is more flexible and less
likely to break. The tinning prevents salt water/air from seeping under
the insulation and corroding the wire.

Tom
of the Swee****er Sea

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

I've heard different opinions what kind of wire is better for wiring
boats.Could you give me some of your expertise?
Thank You,
Ytter

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

I've recently wondered about the expense of tinned wire when all my wiring
problems come from the terminals and connections on my 30 year old boat with
original wiring.
I know tinned is the latest and greatest, but not too many years back the
latest and greatest was lamp cord. I'm sure there is a new latest and
greatest just around the corner........
MMC
"Tom Shilson" wrote in message
...
Ytter wrote:

I've heard different opinions what kind of wire is better for wiring
boats.Could you give me some of your expertise?
Thank You,
Ytter


Use tinned, stranded wire. The stranded wire is more flexible and less
likely to break. The tinning prevents salt water/air from seeping under
the insulation and corroding the wire.

Tom
of the Swee****er Sea

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

Subject

If you have to ask that question, don't even consider the job.

Boats are wired with tinned stranded wire based on some solid engineering.


--
Lew

S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland)
Visit: http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett for Pictures

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

Never use solid core wire on anything that moves, vibrates, or flexes- Cars,
boats, elevators, trains, etc. Solid wire is for buildings, signs, etc, that
never move. Movement will eventually break the wire (or just cause it to
weaken, creating a point of resistance that will be a fire hazard)


"Ytter" wrote in message
...
I've heard different opinions what kind of wire is better for wiring
boats.Could you give me some of your expertise?
Thank You,
Ytter

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

"Boats are wired with tinned stranded wire based on some solid engineering."
Sounds like a Bush press release none answer.
This guy has a legitimate question in spirit with the newsgroup.

"Lew Hodgett" wrote in message
link.net...
Subject

If you have to ask that question, don't even consider the job.

Boats are wired with tinned stranded wire based on some solid engineering.


--
Lew

S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the
Southland)
Visit: http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett for Pictures

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

When boat manufacturers install 110v wiring in a boat at
the factory for the "house" 110v circuits (like lights, plugs,
A/C, tv, etc..) what do they use?

do they use 110v 12 gauge solid core "romex" like they do
for home installations for do they acutally use stranded wire
in conduit? I just can't see all the boat manufactureres going
to this expense.

anyone?

"Stanley Barthfarkle" wrote in message om...
Never use solid core wire on anything that moves, vibrates, or flexes- Cars,
boats, elevators, trains, etc. Solid wire is for buildings, signs, etc, that
never move. Movement will eventually break the wire (or just cause it to
weaken, creating a point of resistance that will be a fire hazard)


"Ytter" wrote in message
...
I've heard different opinions what kind of wire is better for wiring
boats.Could you give me some of your expertise?
Thank You,
Ytter

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

"Stanley Barthfarkle" wrote in message om...
Never use solid core wire on anything that moves, vibrates, or flexes- Cars,
boats, elevators, trains, etc. Solid wire is for buildings, signs, etc, that
never move. Movement will eventually break the wire (or just cause it to
weaken, creating a point of resistance that will be a fire hazard)

Not to mention that stranded wire allows for more, in laymens terms,
flow of energy, less resistance in stranded wire... has to do with
surface area, but that is another story. Anyway, I almost agree with
the guy that said "if you have to ask,...", except I will say, if you
have to ask, you have a lot more reading to do :) Hopefully, your
origional question has been answered here.
Scotty



"Ytter" wrote in message
...
I've heard different opinions what kind of wire is better for wiring
boats.Could you give me some of your expertise?
Thank You,
Ytter

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

On 27 May 2004 07:54:14 -0700, (Michael
Sutton) wrote:


do they use 110v 12 gauge solid core "romex" like they do
for home installations for do they acutally use stranded wire
in conduit? I just can't see all the boat manufactureres going
to this expense.

Well, perhaps my experience will be instructive.

I have a 1973 racer cruiser made by Ontario Yachts, a reputable firm
known for solid boats (Ontario 28, 32, Niagara 35, etc.)

The electric wires in the boat are original except where I've changed
them. I intend to change all of them eventually, as I intend to
relocate the batteries, charger, etc. under a settee next to the mast
for better weight distribution.

The panel is little metal toggle switch with glass fuse holders with a
common positive side. Most of the DC power lines are very narrow, 20
or 22 gauge, to a terminal block in the head and aft and forward to
running lights. I replaced all mast wires with 12 gauge to spreader
lights, steaming and deck lights and 14 gauge to trilight and anchor
light. All DC wiring is tinned and stranded.

Wow, what a difference. Wait until I upgrade the cabin wiring and
replace the panel. The only exception to this is perhaps I will leave
the cabin lights with the old wiring, which is not in bad condition,
if I switch from 12 VDC auto light bulbs to LEDs...the LEDs draw so
little it is hardly worth the effort of drawing the cables through
cabinetry, etc.

I also replaced the stern light wire with 16 gauge to the panel.
Again, a gratifying jump in brightness.

All new hard-wired devices, like gas/propane alarm and solenoid, depth
sounder, etc. get 14 or 16 gauge Ancor wire to the panel depending on
draw. As I have a stock 35 amp alternator on my Atomic 4, I try to
avoid heavy draws where possible.

On the AC side, yes, there is obviously 10 gauge exterior Romex-type
wire going from the hook-up to a small 30 amp fuse box which uses the
"shotgun cartridge" style of brass-ended fuses. They haven't blown in
the five years I've owned the boat. The two pairs of AC outlets on the
boat are properly grounded, but the Romex is beginning to get
tired-looking. When I get a new panel next year I will replace it with
10 gauge marine wire because I want proper AC circuit breakers, a
hard-wired charger, a small inverter, full isolation and two extra
paired outlets, one in the V-berth so I can run power tools in the
anchor locker, and one in the nav station for a PC as we are getting
wireless networking at the YC and I like to download weather maps
before I cruise.

My other suggestion, depending on the length of your boat, is to
install a second AC hook-up. Mine is in the cockpit and the 50 foot
cord must cross about 31 feet of deck, 5 feet of Zodiac, 6 feet of
dock finger and 4 feet of rise to get to the plug. Far better, I
think, would be to have a second plug at the bow
end...somewhere...allowing a shorter cord to be used and giving one
the opinion of docking in other slips stern in or bow in without
hauling too much or too little shore power cord. Less stuff on deck
that way as well.

Hope this helps. I am learning as well and quite enjoying myself. I
won't miss those little glass fuses, I can tell you.

R.

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

Ytter,
As a rule you should use FINE tin plated stranded wire. It should be
sheathed with either fiberglass or metal braiding. It can be ordered from an
industrial wire supply house. It cost more than other type wire, but the
overall cost difference at the job level is minimal. Just as importantly,
you should consider the mode of most common failure of wiring. That is
corrosion at the wire terminal interface. To avoid the moisture migration
cause, you should use crimp terminals without insulation and a crimping tool
that provides enough pressure that the terminal to wire connection actually
welds. Then shrink tubing is applied and after the terminal is installed the
entire connection should be painted with a rubber compound. This also can be
ordered from the industrial supplier or directly from OMC.
Steve

"Ytter" wrote in message
...
I've heard different opinions what kind of wire is better for wiring
boats.Could you give me some of your expertise?
Thank You,
Ytter

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

Rhys,
Have you come up with a model/plan for your LED lighting? There was a guy
some time ago (in this newsgroup) who had used 12vdc LED trailer lighting (I
believe from JC Whitney) in his boat. It gave an amber glow and was mounted
under the decks on either side of the cabin. Looked good. That msg string
included some very high tech-high price options.
I might get string of those LEDs and experiment....
"rhys" wrote in message
...
On 27 May 2004 07:54:14 -0700, (Michael
Sutton) wrote:


do they use 110v 12 gauge solid core "romex" like they do
for home installations for do they acutally use stranded wire
in conduit? I just can't see all the boat manufactureres going
to this expense.

Well, perhaps my experience will be instructive.

I have a 1973 racer cruiser made by Ontario Yachts, a reputable firm
known for solid boats (Ontario 28, 32, Niagara 35, etc.)

The electric wires in the boat are original except where I've changed
them. I intend to change all of them eventually, as I intend to
relocate the batteries, charger, etc. under a settee next to the mast
for better weight distribution.

The panel is little metal toggle switch with glass fuse holders with a
common positive side. Most of the DC power lines are very narrow, 20
or 22 gauge, to a terminal block in the head and aft and forward to
running lights. I replaced all mast wires with 12 gauge to spreader
lights, steaming and deck lights and 14 gauge to trilight and anchor
light. All DC wiring is tinned and stranded.

Wow, what a difference. Wait until I upgrade the cabin wiring and
replace the panel. The only exception to this is perhaps I will leave
the cabin lights with the old wiring, which is not in bad condition,
if I switch from 12 VDC auto light bulbs to LEDs...the LEDs draw so
little it is hardly worth the effort of drawing the cables through
cabinetry, etc.

I also replaced the stern light wire with 16 gauge to the panel.
Again, a gratifying jump in brightness.

All new hard-wired devices, like gas/propane alarm and solenoid, depth
sounder, etc. get 14 or 16 gauge Ancor wire to the panel depending on
draw. As I have a stock 35 amp alternator on my Atomic 4, I try to
avoid heavy draws where possible.

On the AC side, yes, there is obviously 10 gauge exterior Romex-type
wire going from the hook-up to a small 30 amp fuse box which uses the
"shotgun cartridge" style of brass-ended fuses. They haven't blown in
the five years I've owned the boat. The two pairs of AC outlets on the
boat are properly grounded, but the Romex is beginning to get
tired-looking. When I get a new panel next year I will replace it with
10 gauge marine wire because I want proper AC circuit breakers, a
hard-wired charger, a small inverter, full isolation and two extra
paired outlets, one in the V-berth so I can run power tools in the
anchor locker, and one in the nav station for a PC as we are getting
wireless networking at the YC and I like to download weather maps
before I cruise.

My other suggestion, depending on the length of your boat, is to
install a second AC hook-up. Mine is in the cockpit and the 50 foot
cord must cross about 31 feet of deck, 5 feet of Zodiac, 6 feet of
dock finger and 4 feet of rise to get to the plug. Far better, I
think, would be to have a second plug at the bow
end...somewhere...allowing a shorter cord to be used and giving one
the opinion of docking in other slips stern in or bow in without
hauling too much or too little shore power cord. Less stuff on deck
that way as well.

Hope this helps. I am learning as well and quite enjoying myself. I
won't miss those little glass fuses, I can tell you.

R.

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

All the reasons given here for the use of stranded wire are for the most
part correct and reason enough to use tinned stranded wire. I am sure
that
the only reason you are disuaded from using real marine wire is cost, but
I just bought 1000' of 14/2 for 24 cents a foot he

http://www.blackav.com/bai.php?page=11

their website was out of commission last I checked, but their phone
number
is 724-379-8628

To answer all the sceptics, YES, this is tinned, stranded, duplex UL1426
CG approved marine wire.


David
S/V Nausicaa

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

"Ytter" wrote in message
...
I've heard different opinions what kind of wire is better for wiring
boats.Could you give me some of your expertise?

The proper wire to use is stranded.

As others have said, the reason for this is that it is better for dealing
with vibration.

Another reason that YOU should use the proper wire is that it could become
very important if you ever plan on selling this boat. If a prospective
buyer has a survey done and the surveyor finds (and he should) that the boat
has been rewired with solid wire you may be looking at a rather expensive
job to restore the boat to a proper wiring configuration.

Rod McInnis

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

"Michael Sutton" wrote in message
om...


When boat manufacturers install 110v wiring in a boat at
the factory for the "house" 110v circuits (like lights, plugs,
A/C, tv, etc..) what do they use?



Stranded wire.

Note that the electrical outlets are different than the typical household
outlets as a result. An outlet that is designed for solid wire won't work
for stranded.

Rod

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

Rod McInnis wrote:

Stranded wire.

Note that the electrical outlets are different than the typical
household outlets as a result. An outlet that is designed for solid
wire won't work for stranded.

They are exactly the same. You just don't use the push in connector.
Use the screw terminals with crimp on ring terminals.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

I usually solder connector on my boat and have never found this to fail.
I've never see this done but the manufacturers so there must be some
negative reason but I've not found it.

"Steve Lusardi" wrote in message
...
Ytter,
As a rule you should use FINE tin plated stranded wire. It should be
sheathed with either fiberglass or metal braiding. It can be ordered from
an
industrial wire supply house. It cost more than other type wire, but the
overall cost difference at the job level is minimal. Just as importantly,
you should consider the mode of most common failure of wiring. That is
corrosion at the wire terminal interface. To avoid the moisture migration
cause, you should use crimp terminals without insulation and a crimping
tool
that provides enough pressure that the terminal to wire connection
actually
welds. Then shrink tubing is applied and after the terminal is installed
the
entire connection should be painted with a rubber compound. This also can
be
ordered from the industrial supplier or directly from OMC.
Steve

"Ytter" wrote in message
...
I've heard different opinions what kind of wire is better for wiring
boats.Could you give me some of your expertise?
Thank You,
Ytter

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

QLW wrote:
I usually solder connector on my boat and have never found this to fail.
I've never see this done but the manufacturers so there must be some
negative reason but I've not found it.

Cost of assembly. It gets the boat out of the door, and it works long
enough to last until the end of the warranty.

--
the most committed always win

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

rhys wrote:

On 27 May 2004 07:54:14 -0700, (Michael
Sutton) wrote:


do they use 110v 12 gauge solid core "romex" like they do
for home installations for do they acutally use stranded wire
in conduit? I just can't see all the boat manufactureres going
to this expense.


Well, perhaps my experience will be instructive.


The panel is little metal toggle switch with glass fuse holders with a
common positive side. Most of the DC power lines are very narrow, 20
or 22 gauge, to a terminal block in the head and aft and forward to
running lights. I replaced all mast wires with 12 gauge to spreader
lights, steaming and deck lights and 14 gauge to trilight and anchor
light. All DC wiring is tinned and stranded.

Wow, what a difference. Wait until I upgrade the cabin wiring and
replace the panel. The only exception to this is perhaps I will leave
the cabin lights with the old wiring, which is not in bad condition,
if I switch from 12 VDC auto light bulbs to LEDs...the LEDs draw so
little it is hardly worth the effort of drawing the cables through
cabinetry, etc.

I also replaced the stern light wire with 16 gauge to the panel.
Again, a gratifying jump in brightness.

This has more to do with proper wire sizing than new wire or stranded wire.



--
the most committed always win

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

dazed and confuzed wrote:


Cost of assembly. It gets the boat out of the door, and it works long
enough to last until the end of the warranty.


I agree. The crimp is for a solid mechanical connection. The solder
gives a good electrical connection and resists corrosion.

Tom
of the Swee****er Sea

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

"Glenn Ashmore" writes:

They are exactly the same. You just don't use the push in connector.
Use the screw terminals with crimp on ring terminals.

There are at least 4 grades of duplex receptacles.

1) The "strip and stuff" residential designed for solid wire.

You strip the wire then stuff it in the hole on the back of the receptacle.

Strictly a low cost residential device.

2) Light Commercial grade designed for either solid or stranded wire, a side
wired device.

3) "Spec Grade", heavy duty industrial, designed for either solid or
stranded wire. Can be back or side wired.

4) "Hospital Grade", same as spec grade except with better performance
characteristics for the most difficult of all receptacle applications, the
hospital.

Hospital grade devices have a green dot on the face.

None of these devices are designed to require terminals, but if used in a
side wired application, the terminal certainly should NOT be soldered to the
wire.

HTH


--
Lew

S/A: Challenge, The Bullet Proof Boat, (Under Construction in the Southland)
Visit: http://home.earthlink.net/~lewhodgett for Pictures

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

what an absurd response!
For the willing: solid wire is intended for Ac because the current travels
thru the average of the thicknessas it alternates polarity. Dc travels on
the outside (skin effect) due to mutual repulsion of the electrons;
therefore stranded wire is best for high current loads of Dc. If the wire
is well supported and larger than necessary for the rated current AND
cheap enough vs stranded, then go with it. Otherwise, stranded.
rick

On Thu, 27 May 2004 03:05:29 GMT, Lew Hodgett
wrote:

Subject

If you have to ask that question, don't even consider the job.

Boats are wired with tinned stranded wire based on some solid
engineering.





--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

One argument against soldered connections is that the molten solder can wick
up into the stranded wire and stiffen the wire back to a hard spot which, being
concealed by the insulation, can fatigue without being seen.



QLW wrote:

I usually solder connector on my boat and have never found this to fail.
I've never see this done but the manufacturers so there must be some
negative reason but I've not found it.

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

I usually solder connector on my boat and have never found this to fail.
I've never see this done but the manufacturers so there must be some
negative reason but I've not found it.

solder connections fail under high load conditions

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

I agree. The crimp is for a solid mechanical connection. The solder
gives a good electrical connection and resists corrosion.


wrong. solder connections fail under high load conditions.

CRIMP for current, solder for corrosion resistence. In that order.

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

bull****. you are an absolute amateur who probably teaches home ec class to
high school sophomores.


what an absurd response!
For the willing: solid wire is intended for Ac because the current travels
thru the average of the thicknessas it alternates polarity. Dc travels on
the outside (skin effect) due to mutual repulsion of the electrons;
therefore stranded wire is best for high current loads of Dc. If the wire
is well supported and larger than necessary for the rated current AND
cheap enough vs stranded, then go with it. Otherwise, stranded.
rick

On Thu, 27 May 2004 03:05:29 GMT, Lew Hodgett
wrote:

Subject

If you have to ask that question, don't even consider the job.

Boats are wired with tinned stranded wire based on some solid
engineering.





--
Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

Would you mind explaining exactly how a solder connection fails "under high
load conditions" If a wire gets hot enough to melt solder then that circuit
is greatly overloaded and the fuse should have failed long before reaching
that point.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
I agree. The crimp is for a solid mechanical connection. The solder
gives a good electrical connection and resists corrosion.


wrong. solder connections fail under high load conditions.

CRIMP for current, solder for corrosion resistence. In that order.

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

In article ,
says...
For the willing: solid wire is intended for Ac because the current travels
thru the average of the thicknessas it alternates polarity. Dc travels on
the outside (skin effect) due to mutual repulsion of the electrons;
Hmm.. Additionally, that's wrong.
--
Regards, Terry King ...In The Woods In Vermont

"The one who dies with the most parts LOSES! What do you need??"

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

Would you mind explaining exactly how a solder connection fails "under high
load conditions"

when the connection is soldered it lacks mechanical integrity. solder is soft
and any chance of movement -- any, even walking on a floor near the equipment
in a building -- loosens the connection until it eventualy fails. Even if
after soldering the connection is clamped TIGHTLY with a mechanical clamp it
eventually fails.

If the connection is FIRST clamped TIGHTLY mechanically and _then_ soldered for
corrosion protection all if right and holy.

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

1) Skin effect is of concern - but only at frequencies well above
those used for power transmission. Start thinking about it at perhaps
5 MHz up. Skin effect is actually absent at DC

[in response to another well-intentioned post from someone else...]
2) an equal diameter of stranded and solid power line passing equal
currents, shows the stranded line getting hotter, with more volt drop,
because the resistance per unit length is higher for stranded.

Please don't share knowledge with us, willing or not, unless you're
sure. There's always someone to spot a misconception.

Brian W

On Thu, 27 May 2004 22:29:52 -0300, none
wrote:


what an absurd response!
For the willing: solid wire is intended for Ac because the current travels
thru the average of the thicknessas it alternates polarity. Dc travels on
the outside (skin effect) due to mutual repulsion of the electrons;
therefore stranded wire is best for high current loads of Dc. If the wire
is well supported and larger than necessary for the rated current AND
cheap enough vs stranded, then go with it. Otherwise, stranded.
rick

On Thu, 27 May 2004 03:05:29 GMT, Lew Hodgett
wrote:

Subject

If you have to ask that question, don't even consider the job.

Boats are wired with tinned stranded wire based on some solid
engineering.

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com has pretty good prices on tinned marine
wire. It's not Ancor brand, but the same spec. Also, our local Home Depot
acutally carries a decent selection of marine stuff, including wire, nylon
terminals, etc.

Oh yea, while on the subject of terminals, be sure to use a good double
crimp ratcheting crimper and good terminals. You can find both at
http://www.terminaltown.com. They have all kinds of wiring stuff, including
mil spec connectors if you're really picky!

--


Keith
__
It's only unethical if you get caught.
"dbraun" wrote in message
lkaboutboats.com...
All the reasons given here for the use of stranded wire are for the most
part correct and reason enough to use tinned stranded wire. I am sure
that
the only reason you are disuaded from using real marine wire is cost, but
I just bought 1000' of 14/2 for 24 cents a foot he

http://www.blackav.com/bai.php?page=11

their website was out of commission last I checked, but their phone
number
is 724-379-8628

To answer all the sceptics, YES, this is tinned, stranded, duplex UL1426
CG approved marine wire.


David
S/V Nausicaa

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

Oh sure they will. You can either put the bare wire there, or fix a terminal
to the wire and fasten it to the screw on the side.

--


Keith
__
Nothing is foolproof to a sufficiently talented fool.
"Rod McInnis" wrote in message
...

"Michael Sutton" wrote in message
om...


When boat manufacturers install 110v wiring in a boat at
the factory for the "house" 110v circuits (like lights, plugs,
A/C, tv, etc..) what do they use?



Stranded wire.

Note that the electrical outlets are different than the typical household
outlets as a result. An outlet that is designed for solid wire won't work
for stranded.

Rod

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

I refuse to get into useless debates based on absolutely ridicules
assertions...so I'm going to stop right here and avoid the name calling that
usually comes next. But I can give many examples that will prove the
statement below completely unfounded. I solder all of the wires on trailers
that I build (and I build a lot of them) and they are subjected to lots of
movement and vibration and never fail. Sometimes the wires will get pulled
apart but not the soldered joint. Huge numbers of soldered electronic
equipment in high vibration service routinely last a lifetime without
failure. The mechanical connection is far more likely to loosen, that's why
we have loctite and NyLocks. Anyway, my participation in this thread is
ended. It is obvious that Jax is more interested in "winning arguments"
than in meaningful posts and in reading some of his past posts, name calling
is next.

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
Would you mind explaining exactly how a solder connection fails "under
high
load conditions"

when the connection is soldered it lacks mechanical integrity. solder is
soft
and any chance of movement -- any, even walking on a floor near the
equipment
in a building -- loosens the connection until it eventualy fails. Even if
after soldering the connection is clamped TIGHTLY with a mechanical clamp
it
eventually fails.

If the connection is FIRST clamped TIGHTLY mechanically and _then_
soldered for
corrosion protection all if right and holy.

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:G5vtc.3$W01.0@okepread01...


Note that the electrical outlets are different than the typical
household outlets as a result. An outlet that is designed for solid
wire won't work for stranded.

They are exactly the same. You just don't use the push in connector.
Use the screw terminals with crimp on ring terminals.

The marine grade electrical outlets that I have used all have a clamp system
for securing stranded wire. You insert the wire into the hole in the back,
just like the household units. But instead of it being a "one way" catch,
the screw on the side tightens down the clamp.

Rod

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

"none" wrote in message
...


For the willing: solid wire is intended for Ac because the current travels
thru the average of the thicknessas it alternates polarity. Dc travels on
the outside (skin effect) due to mutual repulsion of the electrons;


You have that backwards. Skin effect is an AC phenomenon. Here, check out
this web page from Institute for Telecommunications Sciences:
http://www.its.bldrdoc.gov/fs-1037/dir-033/_4923.htm

Note that skin effect is only significant at high frequencies. There is no
significant skin effect at 60 cycle per second.

Rod

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

I didn't know that. Why is it not safe? What problems can it cause?

Thanks - Dan

wrote:
On Thu, 27 May 2004 19:03:47 -0500, dazed and confuzed
wrote:


QLW wrote:

I usually solder connector on my boat and have never found this to fail.
I've never see this done but the manufacturers so there must be some
negative reason but I've not found it.

Cost of assembly. It gets the boat out of the door, and it works long
enough to last until the end of the warranty.


Power wires should NEVER be soldered. It's against NEC and NFPA code
for good reason. It's not safe.

BB

--
Dan Best - (707) 431-1662, Healdsburg, CA 95448
B-2/75 1977-1979
Tayana 37 #192, "Tricia Jean"
http://rangerbest.home.comcast.net/TriciaJean.JPG

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

NEVER solder an electrical connection within a vehicle or any machine that
is subject to motion or vibration. The solder creates a stress concentration
at the end of the solder, which in time will cause the wire to break right
at the joint. That is why it should never be done. Those that have done this
and not experienced a failure are simply lucky.
Steve

"QLW" wrote in message
...
I usually solder connector on my boat and have never found this to fail.
I've never see this done but the manufacturers so there must be some
negative reason but I've not found it.

"Steve Lusardi" wrote in message
...
Ytter,
As a rule you should use FINE tin plated stranded wire. It should be
sheathed with either fiberglass or metal braiding. It can be ordered
from
an
industrial wire supply house. It cost more than other type wire, but the
overall cost difference at the job level is minimal. Just as
importantly,
you should consider the mode of most common failure of wiring. That is
corrosion at the wire terminal interface. To avoid the moisture
migration
cause, you should use crimp terminals without insulation and a crimping
tool
that provides enough pressure that the terminal to wire connection
actually
welds. Then shrink tubing is applied and after the terminal is installed
the
entire connection should be painted with a rubber compound. This also
can
be
ordered from the industrial supplier or directly from OMC.
Steve

"Ytter" wrote in message
...
I've heard different opinions what kind of wire is better for wiring
boats.Could you give me some of your expertise?
Thank You,
Ytter

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

Tom, you are incorrect. A solder joint under vibration can easily create a
resistive connection and it can be undetectable until it overheats. Please
review my previous advice and use a crimping tool that creats a very high
pressure crimp.
Steve

"Tom Shilson" wrote in message
...
dazed and confuzed wrote:


Cost of assembly. It gets the boat out of the door, and it works long
enough to last until the end of the warranty.


I agree. The crimp is for a solid mechanical connection. The solder
gives a good electrical connection and resists corrosion.

Tom
of the Swee****er Sea

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

If the connection is crimped first, you have it correct. Additional
soldering will create the stress concentration, which can fail slowly
through minute cracks creating a resistive connection, which allows more and
more circuit voltage to drop accross the joint. This heats the joint, and
creates enbrittlement of the joint and wire and so on. This is not rocket
science folks. It is common sense.
Steve

"JAXAshby" wrote in message
...
Would you mind explaining exactly how a solder connection fails "under
high
load conditions"

when the connection is soldered it lacks mechanical integrity. solder is
soft
and any chance of movement -- any, even walking on a floor near the
equipment
in a building -- loosens the connection until it eventualy fails. Even if
after soldering the connection is clamped TIGHTLY with a mechanical clamp
it
eventually fails.

If the connection is FIRST clamped TIGHTLY mechanically and _then_
soldered for
corrosion protection all if right and holy.

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

JAXAshby wrote:
I usually solder connector on my boat and have never found this to fail.
I've never see this done but the manufacturers so there must be some
negative reason but I've not found it.


solder connections fail under high load conditions
mechanical stress loads or electrical loads?

--
the most committed always win

Can I use Solid wire for rewiring sailboat if not WHY?
 

Keith wrote:

http://www.jamestowndistributors.com has pretty good prices on tinned marine
wire. It's not Ancor brand, but the same spec. Also, our local Home Depot
acutally carries a decent selection of marine stuff, including wire, nylon
terminals, etc.

Oh yea, while on the subject of terminals, be sure to use a good double
crimp ratcheting crimper and good terminals. You can find both at
http://www.terminaltown.com. They have all kinds of wiring stuff, including
mil spec connectors if you're really picky!

THe ratcheting crimper is the key. Properly done, a crimp connection is
as good as a soldered joint.

--
the most committed always win