"Meindert Sprang" wrote in message ...
"Parallax" wrote in message
om...
All of this is probably well known to most ppl here but is new to me.
In making my two Mini-Cups, I have experimented with various glues. I
just cannot resist the temptation to do somethign a different way.
So, here is my opinion.

Gorilla Glue: fairly easy to use requiring no mixing. It has less
strength than epoxy and as been stated by others, no ability to bridge
gaps with any holding ability. It really needs a tight fit.

Stay away from anything like these PU glues. To make a good bond, you need a
clamping force you will never be able to apply on a boat. 60-80 psi is quite
difficult to apply over a long seam.

West Epoxy: Convenient with the little pumps for mixing, holds really
well and bridges gaps. Very expensive and no matter how much of the
colloidal thickener I use, it sags and starts to run before it sets.

You are using the wrong filler here. For gap filling use microfibres. And
epoxy is not that expensive. It is only a part of the total buiding cost.

Conventional Fibreglas resin (the stuff that stinks): Not too bad to
work with, not sure of its abilities as a glue, havent tried it as a
filler, reasonably inexpensive

You're talking about polyester here. Stay away from it for glueing.

Seriously, do yourself a favour and use epoxy. Once you get the hang of it
in using the pumps, stirring it properly and adding the right amount of
filler, you'll never want to use something else.

Meindert


My epoxy is 10 yr old West System stuff and my metering pumps broke
yrs ago so my mixing is prob a little off. I am using the colloidal
silica I used yrs ago for blister repair and it seemed to work then
but I may not be using the righ amount. Today, I plan to buy another
gallon of the West epoxy, pumps and fibers.

Parallax wrote:

My epoxy is 10 yr old West System stuff and my metering pumps broke
yrs ago so my mixing is prob a little off. I am using the colloidal
silica I used yrs ago for blister repair and it seemed to work then
but I may not be using the righ amount. Today, I plan to buy another
gallon of the West epoxy, pumps and fibers.

Milled fiber does not thicken epoxy very well. While it is great for
strong bonding it will definitely not make epoxy stiff enough to keep it
from sagging. For fairing and filling I mix in microballoons first then
slowly add silica to get the right consistancy.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Glenn Ashmore wrote in message news:Csqmc.7893$Lm3.270@lakeread04...
Parallax wrote:

My epoxy is 10 yr old West System stuff and my metering pumps broke
yrs ago so my mixing is prob a little off. I am using the colloidal
silica I used yrs ago for blister repair and it seemed to work then
but I may not be using the righ amount. Today, I plan to buy another
gallon of the West epoxy, pumps and fibers.

Milled fiber does not thicken epoxy very well. While it is great for
strong bonding it will definitely not make epoxy stiff enough to keep it
from sagging. For fairing and filling I mix in microballoons first then
slowly add silica to get the right consistancy.

I don't use milled fibers. I tried them once but the lamination it
created left the epoxy stiff. For the type of construction I do, stiff
is not necessarily good. Scotty

Backyard Renegade wrote:

I don't use milled fibers. I tried them once but the lamination it
created left the epoxy stiff. For the type of construction I do, stiff
is not necessarily good. Scotty

I don't use it much either (maybe 2 lb in 150 gallons of epoxy. It is
definitely not for laminating but it is good for setting hardware and
high stress joints.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Cotton fibers or wood flour are better for your size of boats, Scotty
....can't remember the WEST designations for these (and you have to ask them
what is in many of their fillers anyway...)

Brian


--
http://www.advantagecomposites.com/tongass -- My 22' Tolman Skiff project
http://www.advantagecomposites.com/catalog -- Discounted System Three
Resins products


..
"Backyard Renegade" wrote in message
om...
Glenn Ashmore wrote in message
news:Csqmc.7893$Lm3.270@lakeread04...
Parallax wrote:

My epoxy is 10 yr old West System stuff and my metering pumps broke
yrs ago so my mixing is prob a little off. I am using the colloidal
silica I used yrs ago for blister repair and it seemed to work then
but I may not be using the righ amount. Today, I plan to buy another
gallon of the West epoxy, pumps and fibers.

Milled fiber does not thicken epoxy very well. While it is great for
strong bonding it will definitely not make epoxy stiff enough to keep it
from sagging. For fairing and filling I mix in microballoons first then
slowly add silica to get the right consistancy.

I don't use milled fibers. I tried them once but the lamination it
created left the epoxy stiff. For the type of construction I do, stiff
is not necessarily good. Scotty

"Brian D" wrote in message news:cdGmc.43368$0H1.3993970@attbi_s54...
Cotton fibers or wood flour are better for your size of boats, Scotty
...can't remember the WEST designations for these (and you have to ask them
what is in many of their fillers anyway...)

Brian

(puffs up chest) Yeah, I got my fillers all set man, I've built over
50 of these size boats For the record, I use aerosil, maple flower,
and pine flower in different mixes depending on what I am doing.
Between the three I get what I need. For backings and wood and gap
filling I use wood, mistakes are recut, not filled, I know this is not
always practical in larger vessels.
Scotty




--
http://www.advantagecomposites.com/tongass -- My 22' Tolman Skiff project
http://www.advantagecomposites.com/catalog -- Discounted System Three
Resins products


.
"Backyard Renegade" wrote in message
om...
Glenn Ashmore wrote in message
news:Csqmc.7893$Lm3.270@lakeread04...
Parallax wrote:

My epoxy is 10 yr old West System stuff and my metering pumps broke
yrs ago so my mixing is prob a little off. I am using the colloidal
silica I used yrs ago for blister repair and it seemed to work then
but I may not be using the righ amount. Today, I plan to buy another
gallon of the West epoxy, pumps and fibers.

Milled fiber does not thicken epoxy very well. While it is great for
strong bonding it will definitely not make epoxy stiff enough to keep it
from sagging. For fairing and filling I mix in microballoons first then
slowly add silica to get the right consistancy.

I don't use milled fibers. I tried them once but the lamination it
created left the epoxy stiff. For the type of construction I do, stiff
is not necessarily good. Scotty

Backyard Renegade ) writes:

(puffs up chest) Yeah, I got my fillers all set man, I've built over
50 of these size boats For the record, I use aerosil, maple flower,
and pine flower in different mixes depending on what I am doing.

as one who is allergic to maple pollen I stay away from the flowers

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-freenet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned

Wow! That's a big chest!

You filler selection sounds zooper dooper to me, although until just
recently, I didn't realize that maple trees bloomed. When on a walk down by
the river the other day, I noticed that the big-leaf Canadian variety had
blooms on them ...all my life living around maples and I'd never noticed
that before! Maple Flowers! (I bet collecting them up is a bugger tho'
....)

My standard filler selections:

Small boats, a.k.a. low physical stress boats: Maple wood flour plus
about 15% silica for everything except fairing. Fairing uses phenolic
microballoons (plus a little silica), although I want to try the new
QuikFair from System Three ...I hate breathing any more powders than I have
too. Bad enough that I have to breath sanded wood and epoxy ...and yes, I
use a respirator. Nothing's perfect and the shop often contains fine stuff
that you can hardly see in the air. I imagine that it collects in my lungs
....

Larger boats: I use silica/epoxy slurry for laminations, drilling witness
holes to ensure an even squeeze everywhere. For high strength gap filling
adhesive and highest strength fillets (under glass), I use 50/50 milled
glass fiber and silica to thicken the epoxy. For unglassed fillets, I use
straight silica (smooth). For all glassed fillets, I use the aforementioned
85% wood flour/15% silica mix. For fairing, I'm using phenolic
microballoons (plus a little silica).

I haven't experimented with cotton fiber. After hearing lists of complaints
from those using plastic fillers, I don't bother trying it.

Brian

--
http://www.advantagecomposites.com/tongass -- My 22' Tolman Skiff project
http://www.advantagecomposites.com/catalog -- Discounted System Three
Resins products


..
"Backyard Renegade" wrote in message
m...
"Brian D" wrote in message
news:cdGmc.43368$0H1.3993970@attbi_s54...
Cotton fibers or wood flour are better for your size of boats, Scotty
...can't remember the WEST designations for these (and you have to ask
them
what is in many of their fillers anyway...)

Brian

(puffs up chest) Yeah, I got my fillers all set man, I've built over
50 of these size boats For the record, I use aerosil, maple flower,
and pine flower in different mixes depending on what I am doing.
Between the three I get what I need. For backings and wood and gap
filling I use wood, mistakes are recut, not filled, I know this is not
always practical in larger vessels.
Scotty




--
http://www.advantagecomposites.com/tongass -- My 22' Tolman Skiff
project
http://www.advantagecomposites.com/catalog -- Discounted System Three
Resins products


.
"Backyard Renegade" wrote in message
om...
Glenn Ashmore wrote in message
news:Csqmc.7893$Lm3.270@lakeread04...
Parallax wrote:

My epoxy is 10 yr old West System stuff and my metering pumps
broke
yrs ago so my mixing is prob a little off. I am using the
colloidal
silica I used yrs ago for blister repair and it seemed to work
then
but I may not be using the righ amount. Today, I plan to buy
another
gallon of the West epoxy, pumps and fibers.

Milled fiber does not thicken epoxy very well. While it is great
for
strong bonding it will definitely not make epoxy stiff enough to
keep it
from sagging. For fairing and filling I mix in microballoons first
then
slowly add silica to get the right consistancy.

I don't use milled fibers. I tried them once but the lamination it
created left the epoxy stiff. For the type of construction I do, stiff
is not necessarily good. Scotty

"Brian D" ) writes:
Cotton fibers or wood flour are better for your size of boats, Scotty
...can't remember the WEST designations for these (and you have to ask them
what is in many of their fillers anyway...)

I've got good wood four by sifting sawdust through a fine sieve, in small
quantities. The seive I use is for straining tea. GA has noted here before
that ordinary flour sives are too coaurse for getting good wood flour from
sawdust.


--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-freenet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned

(William R. Watt) wrote in message ...
"Brian D" ) writes:
Cotton fibers or wood flour are better for your size of boats, Scotty
...can't remember the WEST designations for these (and you have to ask them
what is in many of their fillers anyway...)

I've got good wood four by sifting sawdust through a fine sieve, in small
quantities. The seive I use is for straining tea. GA has noted here before
that ordinary flour sives are too coaurse for getting good wood flour from
sawdust.

Yeah, but for 10 bucks I get a bucket of beautifully ground powder,
enough for half a season. Remember, many of my boats are clearcoated
for customers so I must match textures and colors too. But even with
my big painted plywood skiffs, I would not go scratching through a
pile of sawdust looking for a tin of powder, it is just to cheap to
buy it. I am not a fanatic, I have grabbed a handfull of sander dust
in a pinch, but I got the color matching down pretty good with the
pine and maple and combinations of the two.
Scotty