William R. Watt wrote:

"Meindert Sprang" ) writes:


Stay away from anything like these PU glues. To make a good bond, you need a
clamping force you will never be able to apply on a boat. 60-80 psi is quite
difficult to apply over a long seam.


could you say where this clamping pressure information comes from? there
is nothing about it in the PL Premium directions. this house construction
mastic form of the adhesive is supposed to work on materials which are
nailed together and for attaching sheets of foam with just a few nails to
hold it in place until the glue cures. I've used it on small glue-ups with
only the weight of a brick to hold the pieces together until it cures.

Meindert is talking about Gorilla, Probond and the other liquid glues.
They all require high clamping pressure to get the best bond. The
construction adheasive You are talking about has a thixotropic filler
and doesn't need that much pressure.

BTW, how do you keep a partial cartrige alive? You don't need a lot to
make a good joint. When you consider spoilage PU works out a lot more
expensive than epoxy. I buy Gorilla in the smallest bottles just to
keep it fresh.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Glenn Ashmore ) writes:

BTW, how do you keep a partial cartrige alive? You don't need a lot to
make a good joint. When you consider spoilage PU works out a lot more
expensive than epoxy. I buy Gorilla in the smallest bottles just to
keep it fresh.

based on information posted in this newsgroup some time ago I wrap in a
plastic bag and freeze it. I've since read in a different newsgoup that
refrigeration(?) works and you don't have to wait for it to thaw. Have not
tested that. I put it in the sun or near a hot air register to thaw an
hour before I want to use it, which requires some planing. a small plug
will solidify in the nozzle. the plug can be extracted with a wood screw.
I've frozen the PL Premium for months.

I also keep "empty" tubes of adhesive and caulking to be cut open and the
dregs dug out with a putty knife or similar for small jobs. There's
actually quite a lot left in there.


--
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"William R. Watt" wrote in message
...
"Meindert Sprang" ) writes:

Stay away from anything like these PU glues. To make a good bond, you
need a
clamping force you will never be able to apply on a boat. 60-80 psi is
quite
difficult to apply over a long seam.

could you say where this clamping pressure information comes from?

From the side of the bottle. But I'm talking about the liquid stuff here
("PU Construction Glue")

Meindert

"Meindert Sprang" wrote in message ...
"Parallax" wrote in message
om...
All of this is probably well known to most ppl here but is new to me.
In making my two Mini-Cups, I have experimented with various glues. I
just cannot resist the temptation to do somethign a different way.
So, here is my opinion.

Gorilla Glue: fairly easy to use requiring no mixing. It has less
strength than epoxy and as been stated by others, no ability to bridge
gaps with any holding ability. It really needs a tight fit.

Stay away from anything like these PU glues. To make a good bond, you need a
clamping force you will never be able to apply on a boat. 60-80 psi is quite
difficult to apply over a long seam.

West Epoxy: Convenient with the little pumps for mixing, holds really
well and bridges gaps. Very expensive and no matter how much of the
colloidal thickener I use, it sags and starts to run before it sets.

You are using the wrong filler here. For gap filling use microfibres. And
epoxy is not that expensive. It is only a part of the total buiding cost.

Conventional Fibreglas resin (the stuff that stinks): Not too bad to
work with, not sure of its abilities as a glue, havent tried it as a
filler, reasonably inexpensive

You're talking about polyester here. Stay away from it for glueing.

Seriously, do yourself a favour and use epoxy. Once you get the hang of it
in using the pumps, stirring it properly and adding the right amount of
filler, you'll never want to use something else.

Meindert


My epoxy is 10 yr old West System stuff and my metering pumps broke
yrs ago so my mixing is prob a little off. I am using the colloidal
silica I used yrs ago for blister repair and it seemed to work then
but I may not be using the righ amount. Today, I plan to buy another
gallon of the West epoxy, pumps and fibers.

Parallax wrote:

My epoxy is 10 yr old West System stuff and my metering pumps broke
yrs ago so my mixing is prob a little off. I am using the colloidal
silica I used yrs ago for blister repair and it seemed to work then
but I may not be using the righ amount. Today, I plan to buy another
gallon of the West epoxy, pumps and fibers.

Milled fiber does not thicken epoxy very well. While it is great for
strong bonding it will definitely not make epoxy stiff enough to keep it
from sagging. For fairing and filling I mix in microballoons first then
slowly add silica to get the right consistancy.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Glenn Ashmore wrote in message news:Csqmc.7893$Lm3.270@lakeread04...
Parallax wrote:

My epoxy is 10 yr old West System stuff and my metering pumps broke
yrs ago so my mixing is prob a little off. I am using the colloidal
silica I used yrs ago for blister repair and it seemed to work then
but I may not be using the righ amount. Today, I plan to buy another
gallon of the West epoxy, pumps and fibers.

Milled fiber does not thicken epoxy very well. While it is great for
strong bonding it will definitely not make epoxy stiff enough to keep it
from sagging. For fairing and filling I mix in microballoons first then
slowly add silica to get the right consistancy.

I don't use milled fibers. I tried them once but the lamination it
created left the epoxy stiff. For the type of construction I do, stiff
is not necessarily good. Scotty

Backyard Renegade wrote:

I don't use milled fibers. I tried them once but the lamination it
created left the epoxy stiff. For the type of construction I do, stiff
is not necessarily good. Scotty

I don't use it much either (maybe 2 lb in 150 gallons of epoxy. It is
definitely not for laminating but it is good for setting hardware and
high stress joints.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Cotton fibers or wood flour are better for your size of boats, Scotty
....can't remember the WEST designations for these (and you have to ask them
what is in many of their fillers anyway...)

Brian


--
http://www.advantagecomposites.com/tongass -- My 22' Tolman Skiff project
http://www.advantagecomposites.com/catalog -- Discounted System Three
Resins products


..
"Backyard Renegade" wrote in message
om...
Glenn Ashmore wrote in message
news:Csqmc.7893$Lm3.270@lakeread04...
Parallax wrote:

My epoxy is 10 yr old West System stuff and my metering pumps broke
yrs ago so my mixing is prob a little off. I am using the colloidal
silica I used yrs ago for blister repair and it seemed to work then
but I may not be using the righ amount. Today, I plan to buy another
gallon of the West epoxy, pumps and fibers.

Milled fiber does not thicken epoxy very well. While it is great for
strong bonding it will definitely not make epoxy stiff enough to keep it
from sagging. For fairing and filling I mix in microballoons first then
slowly add silica to get the right consistancy.

I don't use milled fibers. I tried them once but the lamination it
created left the epoxy stiff. For the type of construction I do, stiff
is not necessarily good. Scotty

Whoever it was that said "colloidal thickener" fails to make epoxy
nonsagging, and is "very expensive" is dead wrong on both counts. First,
colloidal silica (amorphous silicon dioxide) is the standard filler that you
add to nonthixotropic fillers to make them nonsagging/thixotropic, and it is
nonsagging when used all by itself. Mix it thick and stick it where you
want ...unless it was put on so heavy that you are having high exotherm
problems, it will not sag. As far as price goes, it's middle of the pack.
Consider that wood flour, known as 'cheap', costs 75% as much as the glass
fillers (milled glass fiber, chopped glass strand, and silica). If you want
expensive, go buy straight phenolic microballoons. It costs 150% as much as
silica "colloidal thickener". If you want cheap, go buy plastic minifibers
and accept the trade-offs (which I don't recommend ...there are very few
things I'd recommend plastic fillers for.)

Brian


--
http://www.advantagecomposites.com/tongass -- My 22' Tolman Skiff project
http://www.advantagecomposites.com/catalog -- Discounted System Three
Resins products


..
"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:Csqmc.7893$Lm3.270@lakeread04...


Parallax wrote:

My epoxy is 10 yr old West System stuff and my metering pumps broke
yrs ago so my mixing is prob a little off. I am using the colloidal
silica I used yrs ago for blister repair and it seemed to work then
but I may not be using the righ amount. Today, I plan to buy another
gallon of the West epoxy, pumps and fibers.

Milled fiber does not thicken epoxy very well. While it is great for
strong bonding it will definitely not make epoxy stiff enough to keep it
from sagging. For fairing and filling I mix in microballoons first then
slowly add silica to get the right consistancy.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

Parallax wrote:

SNIP Today, I plan to buy another
gallon of the West epoxy, pumps and fibers.

Don't forget that the new style of WEST pumps (yellow head) are not the same as the older (white head) WEST pumps.

Throw the old ones away.