"Brian D" wrote in message news:cdGmc.43368$0H1.3993970@attbi_s54...
Cotton fibers or wood flour are better for your size of boats, Scotty
...can't remember the WEST designations for these (and you have to ask them
what is in many of their fillers anyway...)

Brian

(puffs up chest) Yeah, I got my fillers all set man, I've built over
50 of these size boats For the record, I use aerosil, maple flower,
and pine flower in different mixes depending on what I am doing.
Between the three I get what I need. For backings and wood and gap
filling I use wood, mistakes are recut, not filled, I know this is not
always practical in larger vessels.
Scotty




--
http://www.advantagecomposites.com/tongass -- My 22' Tolman Skiff project
http://www.advantagecomposites.com/catalog -- Discounted System Three
Resins products


.
"Backyard Renegade" wrote in message
om...
Glenn Ashmore wrote in message
news:Csqmc.7893$Lm3.270@lakeread04...
Parallax wrote:

My epoxy is 10 yr old West System stuff and my metering pumps broke
yrs ago so my mixing is prob a little off. I am using the colloidal
silica I used yrs ago for blister repair and it seemed to work then
but I may not be using the righ amount. Today, I plan to buy another
gallon of the West epoxy, pumps and fibers.

Milled fiber does not thicken epoxy very well. While it is great for
strong bonding it will definitely not make epoxy stiff enough to keep it
from sagging. For fairing and filling I mix in microballoons first then
slowly add silica to get the right consistancy.

I don't use milled fibers. I tried them once but the lamination it
created left the epoxy stiff. For the type of construction I do, stiff
is not necessarily good. Scotty

"Brian D" ) writes:
Cotton fibers or wood flour are better for your size of boats, Scotty
...can't remember the WEST designations for these (and you have to ask them
what is in many of their fillers anyway...)

I've got good wood four by sifting sawdust through a fine sieve, in small
quantities. The seive I use is for straining tea. GA has noted here before
that ordinary flour sives are too coaurse for getting good wood flour from
sawdust.


--
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William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
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Backyard Renegade ) writes:

(puffs up chest) Yeah, I got my fillers all set man, I've built over
50 of these size boats For the record, I use aerosil, maple flower,
and pine flower in different mixes depending on what I am doing.

as one who is allergic to maple pollen I stay away from the flowers

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-freenet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned

Wow! That's a big chest!

You filler selection sounds zooper dooper to me, although until just
recently, I didn't realize that maple trees bloomed. When on a walk down by
the river the other day, I noticed that the big-leaf Canadian variety had
blooms on them ...all my life living around maples and I'd never noticed
that before! Maple Flowers! (I bet collecting them up is a bugger tho'
....)

My standard filler selections:

Small boats, a.k.a. low physical stress boats: Maple wood flour plus
about 15% silica for everything except fairing. Fairing uses phenolic
microballoons (plus a little silica), although I want to try the new
QuikFair from System Three ...I hate breathing any more powders than I have
too. Bad enough that I have to breath sanded wood and epoxy ...and yes, I
use a respirator. Nothing's perfect and the shop often contains fine stuff
that you can hardly see in the air. I imagine that it collects in my lungs
....

Larger boats: I use silica/epoxy slurry for laminations, drilling witness
holes to ensure an even squeeze everywhere. For high strength gap filling
adhesive and highest strength fillets (under glass), I use 50/50 milled
glass fiber and silica to thicken the epoxy. For unglassed fillets, I use
straight silica (smooth). For all glassed fillets, I use the aforementioned
85% wood flour/15% silica mix. For fairing, I'm using phenolic
microballoons (plus a little silica).

I haven't experimented with cotton fiber. After hearing lists of complaints
from those using plastic fillers, I don't bother trying it.

Brian

--
http://www.advantagecomposites.com/tongass -- My 22' Tolman Skiff project
http://www.advantagecomposites.com/catalog -- Discounted System Three
Resins products


..
"Backyard Renegade" wrote in message
m...
"Brian D" wrote in message
news:cdGmc.43368$0H1.3993970@attbi_s54...
Cotton fibers or wood flour are better for your size of boats, Scotty
...can't remember the WEST designations for these (and you have to ask
them
what is in many of their fillers anyway...)

Brian

(puffs up chest) Yeah, I got my fillers all set man, I've built over
50 of these size boats For the record, I use aerosil, maple flower,
and pine flower in different mixes depending on what I am doing.
Between the three I get what I need. For backings and wood and gap
filling I use wood, mistakes are recut, not filled, I know this is not
always practical in larger vessels.
Scotty




--
http://www.advantagecomposites.com/tongass -- My 22' Tolman Skiff
project
http://www.advantagecomposites.com/catalog -- Discounted System Three
Resins products


.
"Backyard Renegade" wrote in message
om...
Glenn Ashmore wrote in message
news:Csqmc.7893$Lm3.270@lakeread04...
Parallax wrote:

My epoxy is 10 yr old West System stuff and my metering pumps
broke
yrs ago so my mixing is prob a little off. I am using the
colloidal
silica I used yrs ago for blister repair and it seemed to work
then
but I may not be using the righ amount. Today, I plan to buy
another
gallon of the West epoxy, pumps and fibers.

Milled fiber does not thicken epoxy very well. While it is great
for
strong bonding it will definitely not make epoxy stiff enough to
keep it
from sagging. For fairing and filling I mix in microballoons first
then
slowly add silica to get the right consistancy.

I don't use milled fibers. I tried them once but the lamination it
created left the epoxy stiff. For the type of construction I do, stiff
is not necessarily good. Scotty

(William R. Watt) wrote in message ...
"Brian D" ) writes:
Cotton fibers or wood flour are better for your size of boats, Scotty
...can't remember the WEST designations for these (and you have to ask them
what is in many of their fillers anyway...)

I've got good wood four by sifting sawdust through a fine sieve, in small
quantities. The seive I use is for straining tea. GA has noted here before
that ordinary flour sives are too coaurse for getting good wood flour from
sawdust.

Yeah, but for 10 bucks I get a bucket of beautifully ground powder,
enough for half a season. Remember, many of my boats are clearcoated
for customers so I must match textures and colors too. But even with
my big painted plywood skiffs, I would not go scratching through a
pile of sawdust looking for a tin of powder, it is just to cheap to
buy it. I am not a fanatic, I have grabbed a handfull of sander dust
in a pinch, but I got the color matching down pretty good with the
pine and maple and combinations of the two.
Scotty

"William R. Watt" wrote in message
...
"Brian D" ) writes:
Cotton fibers or wood flour are better for your size of boats, Scotty
...can't remember the WEST designations for these (and you have to ask
them
what is in many of their fillers anyway...)

I've got good wood four by sifting sawdust through a fine sieve, in small
quantities. The seive I use is for straining tea. GA has noted here before
that ordinary flour sives are too coaurse for getting good wood flour from
sawdust.

I get my wood flour from the dust bag of my belt sander. Especially from
sanding mahogany, you get the finest wood flour you can imagine.

And to Brain D:
I use cotton fibre from West and it works very good. Basically, it is
cellulosis fibre, to it is technically the same material as wood. It's cheap
and you only need a very small amount to get a nice thick peanutbutter-like
mix.

Meindert

Scotty,

Where do you get the pine wood flour? I know RAKA sells Maple ...do they
sell pine too?

Brian

--
http://www.advantagecomposites.com/tongass -- My 22' Tolman Skiff project
http://www.advantagecomposites.com/catalog -- Discounted System Three
Resins products


..
"Backyard Renegade" wrote in message
om...
(William R. Watt) wrote in message
...
"Brian D" ) writes:
Cotton fibers or wood flour are better for your size of boats, Scotty
...can't remember the WEST designations for these (and you have to ask
them
what is in many of their fillers anyway...)

I've got good wood four by sifting sawdust through a fine sieve, in
small
quantities. The seive I use is for straining tea. GA has noted here
before
that ordinary flour sives are too coaurse for getting good wood flour
from
sawdust.

Yeah, but for 10 bucks I get a bucket of beautifully ground powder,
enough for half a season. Remember, many of my boats are clearcoated
for customers so I must match textures and colors too. But even with
my big painted plywood skiffs, I would not go scratching through a
pile of sawdust looking for a tin of powder, it is just to cheap to
buy it. I am not a fanatic, I have grabbed a handfull of sander dust
in a pinch, but I got the color matching down pretty good with the
pine and maple and combinations of the two.
Scotty

"Brian D" wrote in message news:A3Enc.17068$z06.2909008@attbi_s01...
Scotty,

Where do you get the pine wood flour? I know RAKA sells Maple ...do they
sell pine too?

Yes, Larry sells both. And I find that taking mahogany flour from my
sander makes muck that is too dark to match the rest of the project.
Scotty


Brian

--
http://www.advantagecomposites.com/tongass -- My 22' Tolman Skiff project
http://www.advantagecomposites.com/catalog -- Discounted System Three
Resins products


.
"Backyard Renegade" wrote in message
om...
(William R. Watt) wrote in message
...
"Brian D" ) writes:
Cotton fibers or wood flour are better for your size of boats, Scotty
...can't remember the WEST designations for these (and you have to ask
them
what is in many of their fillers anyway...)

I've got good wood four by sifting sawdust through a fine sieve, in
small
quantities. The seive I use is for straining tea. GA has noted here
before
that ordinary flour sives are too coaurse for getting good wood flour
from
sawdust.

Yeah, but for 10 bucks I get a bucket of beautifully ground powder,
enough for half a season. Remember, many of my boats are clearcoated
for customers so I must match textures and colors too. But even with
my big painted plywood skiffs, I would not go scratching through a
pile of sawdust looking for a tin of powder, it is just to cheap to
buy it. I am not a fanatic, I have grabbed a handfull of sander dust
in a pinch, but I got the color matching down pretty good with the
pine and maple and combinations of the two.
Scotty

I've tried mahogany too ...it sure turns dark when put into epoxy. I found
that the best way to get fillets that match the wood panels perfectly is to
paint them all (yuk yuk.) My boat (see links below) will have a cedar strip
pilot house ceiling with a 1/8" layer of mahogany laminated onto the top for
a little more impact resistance, and wood trim on the dash and bunk seats,
but otherwise will be all paint...

Brian


--
http://www.advantagecomposites.com/tongass -- My 22' Tolman Skiff project
http://www.advantagecomposites.com/catalog -- Discounted System Three
Resins products


..
"Backyard Renegade" wrote in message
om...
"Brian D" wrote in message
news:A3Enc.17068$z06.2909008@attbi_s01...
Scotty,

Where do you get the pine wood flour? I know RAKA sells Maple ...do
they
sell pine too?

Yes, Larry sells both. And I find that taking mahogany flour from my
sander makes muck that is too dark to match the rest of the project.
Scotty


Brian

--
http://www.advantagecomposites.com/tongass -- My 22' Tolman Skiff
project
http://www.advantagecomposites.com/catalog -- Discounted System Three
Resins products


.
"Backyard Renegade" wrote in message
om...
(William R. Watt) wrote in message
...
"Brian D" ) writes:
Cotton fibers or wood flour are better for your size of boats,
Scotty
...can't remember the WEST designations for these (and you have to
ask
them
what is in many of their fillers anyway...)

I've got good wood four by sifting sawdust through a fine sieve, in
small
quantities. The seive I use is for straining tea. GA has noted here
before
that ordinary flour sives are too coaurse for getting good wood
flour
from
sawdust.

Yeah, but for 10 bucks I get a bucket of beautifully ground powder,
enough for half a season. Remember, many of my boats are clearcoated
for customers so I must match textures and colors too. But even with
my big painted plywood skiffs, I would not go scratching through a
pile of sawdust looking for a tin of powder, it is just to cheap to
buy it. I am not a fanatic, I have grabbed a handfull of sander dust
in a pinch, but I got the color matching down pretty good with the
pine and maple and combinations of the two.
Scotty