I'm sure there's a good reason - but my initial looking discloses two basic
types of sanitation hose.

Both claim the same purpose (keep the stuff and the odor inside while on the
way outside), but there's one which is 3x the price of the other.

What's the difference, other than the obvious price? Easier to use? Won't
let the odor/seep through, ever, vs some number of years? Stays whiter in
more conditions?

The difference, in boat money terms, is pretty insignificant, I'd say (some
couple-three hundred bux for the standard 50' roll), but if it's not needed,
I can use that couple-three somewhere else.

Anybody used both (e.g. "148" vs "Sealand") who can give experiential input?

Thanks.

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2

--
"And then again, when you sit at the helm of your little ship on a
clear night, and gaze at the countless stars overhead, and realize
that you are quite alone on a great, wide sea, it is apt to occur to
you that in the general scheme of things you are merely an
insignificant speck on the surface of the ocean; and are not nearly
so important or as self-sufficient as you thought you were. Which is
an exceedingly wholesome thought, and one that may effect a
permanent change in your deportment that will be greatly appreciated
by your friends." - James S. Pitkin

In article . net,
says...
I'm sure there's a good reason - but my initial looking discloses two basic
types of sanitation hose.

Both claim the same purpose (keep the stuff and the odor inside while on the
way outside), but there's one which is 3x the price of the other.

What's the difference, other than the obvious price? Easier to use? Won't
let the odor/seep through, ever, vs some number of years? Stays whiter in
more conditions?

The difference, in boat money terms, is pretty insignificant, I'd say (some
couple-three hundred bux for the standard 50' roll), but if it's not needed,
I can use that couple-three somewhere else.

Anybody used both (e.g. "148" vs "Sealand") who can give experiential input?

Thanks.

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2


Skip,

Spend the extra money.

The Sealand "Odorsafe" hose is actually from an Aussie company, its real
product name is AVS96. There may be other companies distributing this
hose in the states since I believe they've started to manufacture it
here.

I used a small piece of it when I first rerouted my sanitation system a
few years back. It was the section from the holding tank to the y-valve
so it was constantly bathed in black water. No detectable permeation in
three years. I've now replace nearly all my sanitation runs with the
AVS96 product.

I purchased some a few months ago from Fisheries Supply in Seattle and
it's the same product I've used from Sealand. It's harder to work with
than the Trident hose but well worth the work and investment.

No interest in the product other than a satisfied customer.

jps

Skip, you got good advice from JPS and Glenn. SeaLand "OdorSafe" and the
Aussie "Odorfree" hose have proven in independent testing to be 16 x
more resistant to odor permation than any other sanitation hose on the
market. It's stiff as an ironing board, though...which means you'll
most likely need to use inline radius fittings. Don't ever heat ANY hose
to bend it tighter than it wants to bend easily...you'll damage the
hose. I've seen it kink, and even develop tears on the outside of a hard
bend.

The Sealand "Odorsafe" hose is actually from an Aussie company, its real
product name is AVS96. There may be other companies distributing this
hose in the states since I believe they've started to manufacture it
here.

They haven't begun mfr'g it here, only distributing it under their own
brand name. For nearly 10 years, SeaLand was the exclusive US
distributer...they private labelled it "OdorSafe." I don't have the
inside skinny (yet) about why that deal is over, but the Aussies aren't
selling it to SeaLand any more at all...they're marketing it here under
their own brand name "AVS96 Odorfree." Here's a link to the Aussies'
website about it: http://www.aussieglobe.com/avs96.htm

Meanwhile, SeaLand has just introduced "OdorSafe Plus," which they claim
is even better and is made in Italy. Price is the about the same for it
as for original OdorSafe/AVS96. I haven't seen any test results on it
yet, so I'm taking a "wait and see" stance for now. But I do know that
the AVS96 stuff is all but totally impervious to odor permeation...it's
readily available here...and that's what I'd use if it were my own boat.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

Peggie Hall wrote:
It's stiff as an ironing board, though...which means you'll
most likely need to use inline radius fittings.


Peggie,

What are "inline radius fittings"? I haven't heard of these
before. Do you have a url for these on the web? (I did a quick
search and didn't find anything.)

Cindy

--
the return email is a spam trap
send legit emails to cindy_at_ballreich_dot_net

What are "inline radius fittings"? I haven't heard of these before. Do
you have a url for these on the web? (I did a quick search and didn't
find anything.)


Try he http://www.sealandservices.com/hose_fittings.htm Scroll down
till you come to the fittings.


--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html

Peggie Hall wrote:
What are "inline radius fittings"?

Try he http://www.sealandservices.com/hose_fittings.htm Scroll down
till you come to the fittings.

Thank you!

I didn't notice a connector for a "slightly oversized" barbed
male thru-hull fitting. Talk about blood, sweat, and tears - I
had all three in abundance before my husband took over and used a
piece of rubber exhaust hose. (Better the head that works and
smells, than the head that can't be used at all.) Any good
suggestions for making this work without heating (and splitting)
the hose?

Cindy

--
the return email is a spam trap
send legit emails to cindy_at_ballreich_dot_net

148 is recommended for grey water and as a bilge hose but it will not
stand up to odor permiation in toilet applications. 144 is somewhat
better but not much. 101 is the standard black water hose and Sealand's
Odorsafe is the best.

You don't need a whole lot. I talked to Ed McKunen, president of
Sealand (and not my favorite person) about it. We recommend making your
longer runs in Schedule 40 PVC with short lengths of Odorsafe to absorb
vibration and movement.

Skip Gundlach wrote:

I'm sure there's a good reason - but my initial looking discloses two basic
types of sanitation hose.

Both claim the same purpose (keep the stuff and the odor inside while on the
way outside), but there's one which is 3x the price of the other.

What's the difference, other than the obvious price? Easier to use? Won't
let the odor/seep through, ever, vs some number of years? Stays whiter in
more conditions?

The difference, in boat money terms, is pretty insignificant, I'd say (some
couple-three hundred bux for the standard 50' roll), but if it's not needed,
I can use that couple-three somewhere else.

Anybody used both (e.g. "148" vs "Sealand") who can give experiential input?

Thanks.

L8R

Skip

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2


--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

In article kXYec.669$uF3.447@lakeread04, says...
148 is recommended for grey water and as a bilge hose but it will not
stand up to odor permiation in toilet applications. 144 is somewhat
better but not much. 101 is the standard black water hose and Sealand's
Odorsafe is the best.

You don't need a whole lot. I talked to Ed McKunen, president of
Sealand (and not my favorite person) about it. We recommend making your
longer runs in Schedule 40 PVC with short lengths of Odorsafe to absorb
vibration and movement.


Completely agree.

Here's more info an schedule 40 and pvc from a learned TWL subscriber:

"From my experience of designing plumbing systems for industy and
commercial applications, I would opt for using PVC over ABS. There are
some necessary precautions that should be taken. First of all, use
schedule 40 PVC and not the thin DWV (drain waste vent) pipe. Secondly,
if using the DWV fittings which have a larger radius, make sure that
they have the long sockets to allow as much glued area as possible.
Third, do not clamp near a fitting but rather allow the pipe absorb any
flex rather than the fitting. BTW, our industrial applications were
subject to considerably more vibration and flexing than I have ever seen
on our boat. PVC pipe is not brittle unless exposed to UV rays from
sunlight. I have seen some suppliers store it outside and that pipe
could be already brittle when purchased.

A couple of other notes, PVC pipe can be bent with the application of
heat to meet any special situations. Another thought would be to use
scdl 40 PVC electrical conduit. This is gray in color, UV protected,
and there are a number of sweep elbows available."



jps

Thanks to all for the various responses - and I'm enjoying the permutations
this thread is taking, as most ones which go beyond a single response
eventually seem to do, as well.

However, I wanted to explore this response a bit:

"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:kXYec.669$uF3.447@lakeread04...
148 is recommended for grey water and as a bilge hose but it will not
stand up to odor permiation in toilet applications. 144 is somewhat
better but not much. 101 is the standard black water hose and Sealand's
Odorsafe is the best.

I see from their website that they now have an improved version (in 2004)
(abbreviated hereafter as SLOS+). I presume that means I'll need to be
careful where I buy it, as old stock might be present. I don't know if the
newer stuff has a price premium, either - but it seems the concensus is that
SLOS would last the lifetime of the boat, so perhaps it's of no event?


You don't need a whole lot. I talked to Ed McKunen, president of
Sealand (and not my favorite person) about it. We recommend making your
longer runs in Schedule 40 PVC with short lengths of Odorsafe to absorb
vibration and movement.

I'd be interested to know what it was you talked about, and why the
personality clash. As to the longer runs, I'm all for the S40PVC - but
wonder if I can use the normal elbows and 45s to accomplish the transitions
which would be present in my rerunning the lines.

For example, the current installation of the aft head is a curved section
from the down-facing outlet of the Raritan PHII joker housing, reaching,
eventually, the aft engine room bulkhead for a fairly long run to the vented
loop before going (back, from the loop) down to a Y. I could see installing
a 3-piece, two-L (preferably long radius, I assume) PVC section, with the
small sections of SLOS+, to do the same job. If so, would it be appropriate
to support the horizontal (under the aft head sole) run, or would the
bulkhead alone, or, even, perhaps, just the two double-clamped (making 4
clamps in a relatively short pipe!) SLOS+ sections suffice? And, for that
matter, would it be better *not* to secure them, but to allow the SLOS+
sections to act as buffers?

All the other installations would likely be permutations of the same, so
they're not worth discussion here. However, not having done any such
installations, I wonder if the SLOS+ slips on the outside of S40PVC, or if
some sort of transition is needed? In particular, even if it did, the walls
are smooth - would I need some sort of barbing?

From a neat-nik and practicality perspective, I really like the concept of
S40PVC. I was all set to buy a roll of SLOS+, but if I can make it work,
I'd certainly prefer this on many levels.

Thanks again to all for all the input.

L8R

Skip and Lydia

PS I'm some time away from it, but logs of the delivery/shakedown adventures
will be forthcoming when I have dug out from under all that's here after 3
weeks away and recovered from the surgery of yesterday...
--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2

--
"And then again, when you sit at the helm of your little ship on a
clear night, and gaze at the countless stars overhead, and realize
that you are quite alone on a great, wide sea, it is apt to occur to
you that in the general scheme of things you are merely an
insignificant speck on the surface of the ocean; and are not nearly
so important or as self-sufficient as you thought you were. Which is
an exceedingly wholesome thought, and one that may effect a
permanent change in your deportment that will be greatly appreciated
by your friends." - James S. Pitkin

Skip Gundlach wrote:
148 is recommended for grey water and as a bilge hose but it will not
stand up to odor permiation in toilet applications. 144 is somewhat
better but not much. 101 is the standard black water hose and Sealand's
Odorsafe is the best.

I see from their website that they now have an improved version (in 2004)
(abbreviated hereafter as SLOS+). I presume that means I'll need to be
careful where I buy it, as old stock might be present.

It doesn't matter whether you get "old" OdorSafe, AVS96 (which is the
same thing as "old" OS, but without SL's private label brand on it), or
"new" SLOS+. Of course SL is gonna call their new hose "new and
improved"--doesn't every mfr any time they change ANY even the color of
something?--but that's no guarantee that it's any better than the
original...which, btw, was outstanding.

I don't know if the
newer stuff has a price premium, either - but it seems the concensus is that
SLOS would last the lifetime of the boat, so perhaps it's of no event?

All 3 versions have about the same price tag.

I'd be interested to know what it was you talked about, and why the
personality clash.

He's not my favorite person either...I suspect for the same reasons
Glenn doesn't like him.

As to the longer runs, I'm all for the S40PVC - but
wonder if I can use the normal elbows and 45s to accomplish the transitions
which would be present in my rerunning the lines.

For example, the current installation of the aft head is a curved section
from the down-facing outlet of the Raritan PHII joker housing, reaching,
eventually, the aft engine room bulkhead for a fairly long run to the vented
loop before going (back, from the loop) down to a Y.

Just how long ARE these runs? The tank should be within 6' of the toilet.

I could see installing...

Skip... don't over-engineer it...KISS! The simpler, more straightforward
the plumbing, the better. If the current tank location will allow that,
it appears from your description of the plumbing that there are so many
bends in it that hard pipe will only over-complicate things...use hose.
If ther's a better location for the tank that will simplify the
plumbing, move it, even if that means replacing the tank to get one that
will fit the space.

You're welcome to get with me via email and/or phone to work it out.

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/html/get_ri...oat_odors.html