I am looking for a design for an easy-to-build camping boat that has
the following characterisitcs:

1. 14-16 foot, lightweight and beachable
2. Simplist plywood construction possible
3. Cat rig
4. A mast that hinges down for motoring
5. Ablity to plane with small outboard motor

Some covered stowage area and floatation would also be nice.

Has anyone seen ready-made plans for anything lile this, or something
that could be easily modified to suit?

Thank you for your reply.

Robert Martin

not sure about planing ability but there are some boxy "jonboats" from
designers like Jim Michalak(?). sorry I don't have the correct spelling of
the name but you can find his designs at www.duckworksmagazine.com. he
actually has one called a "campjon". his designs tend to use Phil
Bolger's "birdseye" cabin and so could be on the heavy side. also
if you look under "garvey" you can find small plywood boats which will
pane with low power. they are generally less boxy and have a bow like a
toboggan. TF Jones shows how to build them in his two boatbuliding books.

usually a sailboat has a narrower transom than a planing powerboat. I
don't know how the tradeoff works.

) writes:
I am looking for a design for an easy-to-build camping boat that has
the following characterisitcs:

1. 14-16 foot, lightweight and beachable
2. Simplist plywood construction possible
3. Cat rig
4. A mast that hinges down for motoring
5. Ablity to plane with small outboard motor

Some covered stowage area and floatation would also be nice.

Has anyone seen ready-made plans for anything lile this, or something
that could be easily modified to suit?

Thank you for your reply.

Robert Martin


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On 7 Apr 2004 12:49:05 GMT, (William R.
Watt) wrote:

snip
usually a sailboat has a narrower transom than a planing powerboat. I
don't know how the tradeoff works.

) writes:
I am looking for a design for an easy-to-build camping boat that has
the following characterisitcs:

snip
5. Ablity to plane with small outboard motor
snip

You can stick a sail on anything, but a planing boat, which needs a
flat run aft and a broad-ish transom, will never sail very well.

If you just want decent sailing performance and a 2HP outboard the
world is your shellfish.

--
"Ignorant voracity -- a wingless vulture -- can soar only into the
depths of ignominy." Patrick O'Brian

Rick Tyler ) writes:

You can stick a sail on anything, but a planing boat, which needs a
flat run aft and a broad-ish transom, will never sail very well.

I was prevented from writing the same by the realization there are quiet a
few 16 ft planing sailboats. I've had a few up on a plane myself. These
are pretty light displacement boats which can plane with sail power.
There's an incomplete design of a light 15 ft cabin sailboat on my website
(Solo 15) which I think would plane. I've seen small light sail cruisers
that are said to plane. However I did not mention such a boat because the
posted requirement was for a boat which would plane under outboard power.
I think it should be possible to design a light displacement camping boat
which would plane under both sail and power but I've not come across any in
my recreational reading.


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On 7 Apr 2004 22:04:50 GMT, (William R.
Watt) wrote:

On slightly different tack. Has anyone ever seen an aluminium skiff
successfully modified for sail?

IOW an added daggerboard and perhaps skeg to the hull.

Robert Martin

I think it should be possible to design a light displacement camping boat
which would plane under both sail and power but I've not come across any in
my recreational reading.

William R. Watt ) writes:

I think it should be possible to design a light displacement camping boat
which would plane under both sail and power but I've not come across any in
my recreational reading.

having thought about this some more, from a non-naval architecht's
perspective, sailboats seem to plane more on their bellies while
powerboats plane on their behinds. It probably has something to do with
the location of the source of power, the sail being amidships and the
propellor being well aft. I've never tried working out the math for it.
Another consideration is adding the weight of a motor means the sail has
to plane not only the boat and sailor's weight, but the weigth of the
motor and fuel too. I'd watn it to be a tip up outboard motor so the
propellor could be out of the water and not creating drag for plaining
under sail. Similarly the rudder used in sailing might best be flipped up
our of the water for planing under power. My incomplete SOLO 15 design has
dual rudders so I guess an outboard motor could be hung off the transom
between them. Taking all that into consideration, and allowing for the
tradeoffs, I still imagine it's possible to design a boat which will plane
under both sail and power. Possibly the SOLO 15 boat would as its near
the practical limit of prismatic co-efficient for effecient sail. All the
design numbers for that boat are displayed on my website. If anybody's
interested the plans are not for sale, they're free. But they come with no
guarantees either.

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Is there any possiblity of mounting the outboard amidships?

For example, the daggerboard box could incorporate a wider top section
that, when lifted out, would allow the motor shaft to be tilted down.

If there were a cable on the throttle, one could even sit aft and use
the tiller.

Robert Martin

It probably has something to do with
the location of the source of power, the sail being amidships and the
propellor being well aft.

(William R. Watt) wrote in message ...
Rick Tyler ) writes:

You can stick a sail on anything, but a planing boat, which needs a
flat run aft and a broad-ish transom, will never sail very well.

I was prevented from writing the same by the realization there are quiet a
few 16 ft planing sailboats. I've had a few up on a plane myself. These
are pretty light displacement boats which can plane with sail power.

Planing with a sailboat is not the same thing than with a powerboat.
It's more like occasional bursts of surfing, not a real sustained
planign mode during which most of the lift comes from planing.
There are a few sailboats designed to plane under power and also sail
but they are not too successfull.

Jacques mertens
http://bateau.com

Jacques ) writes:

Planing with a sailboat is not the same thing than with a powerboat.
It's more like occasional bursts of surfing, not a real sustained
planign mode during which most of the lift comes from planing.

"occasional bursts of surfing"? you ought to read about the voyages of Ken
Dye(?) in his Wayfarer dingy in which he writes of days on end of
continuous planing under sail. all that's needed is steady wind of
sufficient speed, ie consistent power, like what you get from a motor.



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There are a few sailboats designed to plane under power and also sail
but they are not too successfull.


Do you recall where you saw these, or plans for them?

There is a 26' fibreglass version that is sold here in Australia.
Sails and also planes at 20 knots.

But I am looking for something smaller and easy to build.

Thanks everyone for their advice.

Robert