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Watermakers and Chlorine
I'm about to buy a boat with a Power Survivor 80 watermaker, installed in
2002. The owner died about 9 or so months ago, and there's some question as to whether he ever used it. I think I recall hearing that Chlorine was damaging to membranes. There are two, about 2' long, on this model. The broker has been flushing this system (not ever making water in the 8+ months it's been in a canal berth in Ft. Lauderdale) with city water every few weeks, and assures me that this is proper for this model, claiming that flushing as he does is adequate and frequent enough. Looking at the output (overboard), it starts cloudy and goes clear. So, is the first assertion (Chlorine is trouble) correct, and if not, does the second assertion (this model doesn't require pickling), combined with approximately 3-4 weeks between flushes, hold water, pardon the expression? If there's trouble brewing, I'd greatly appreciate a link to support it, as it's one of the items on the survey, and we're supposed to counter in a few days... Thanks, ever so much... L8R Skip and Lydia, anticipating "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain -- "And then again, when you sit at the helm of your little ship on a clear night, and gaze at the countless stars overhead, and realize that you are quite alone on a great, wide sea, it is apt to occur to you that in the general scheme of things you are merely an insignificant speck on the surface of the ocean; and are not nearly so important or as self-sufficient as you thought you were. Which is an exceedingly wholesome thought, and one that may effect a permanent change in your deportment that will be greatly appreciated by your friends."- James S. Pitkin |
#2
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Watermakers and Chlorine
This broker doesn't know what he is doing or what he is talking about.. And
just looking at the discharge over the side doesn't prove anything.. All RO membranes are will be damaged by chlorine and if the system isn't used regularly (once ever couple weeks) then it should have been layed up with a pickling flush with Sodium Metabisufite solution or what ever the mfg recommends.. If you serious about the purchase of this boat, then make your offer contingent on a operational test of the unit by a "Qualified" person.. If you in a major cruising port, you should be able to get someone from a RO dealer/shop to come and check it out. Probably cost a few hundred buck though. The surveyor isn't going to be able to tell you anything for sure. BTW, those RO membranes aint cheap.. If you don't want to spend the money on a technician to test the unit, then buy the boat, but subtract the estimated cost of a pair of replacement mebranes.. -- My opinion and experience. FWIW Steve s/v Good Intentions |
#3
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Watermakers and Chlorine
Point of fact - not ALL membranes are chlorine intolerant - but normal
marine watermaker units are. There are membranes that are mfg for home aquariums, etc that are chlorine tolerant. On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 18:43:36 -0800, "Steve" wrote: This broker doesn't know what he is doing or what he is talking about.. And just looking at the discharge over the side doesn't prove anything.. All RO membranes are will be damaged by chlorine and if the system isn't used regularly (once ever couple weeks) then it should have been layed up with a pickling flush with Sodium Metabisufite solution or what ever the mfg recommends.. If you serious about the purchase of this boat, then make your offer contingent on a operational test of the unit by a "Qualified" person.. If you in a major cruising port, you should be able to get someone from a RO dealer/shop to come and check it out. Probably cost a few hundred buck though. The surveyor isn't going to be able to tell you anything for sure. BTW, those RO membranes aint cheap.. If you don't want to spend the money on a technician to test the unit, then buy the boat, but subtract the estimated cost of a pair of replacement mebranes.. |
#4
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Watermakers and Chlorine
Take off $700 from the purchase price for the replacement of the
membranes. The broker may have prevented bacterial growth but he has ruined the membranes. They are long gone. Chlorinated water is death to RO membranes. If they are standard 21"x2.5" membranes you can get Filmtec SW30-2520 membranes for about $200 each but don't tell the broker that. Have him call Pur and get their ridiculous price. :-) Skip Gundlach wrote: I'm about to buy a boat with a Power Survivor 80 watermaker, installed in 2002. The owner died about 9 or so months ago, and there's some question as to whether he ever used it. I think I recall hearing that Chlorine was damaging to membranes. There are two, about 2' long, on this model. The broker has been flushing this system (not ever making water in the 8+ months it's been in a canal berth in Ft. Lauderdale) with city water every few weeks, and assures me that this is proper for this model, claiming that flushing as he does is adequate and frequent enough. Looking at the output (overboard), it starts cloudy and goes clear. So, is the first assertion (Chlorine is trouble) correct, and if not, does the second assertion (this model doesn't require pickling), combined with approximately 3-4 weeks between flushes, hold water, pardon the expression? If there's trouble brewing, I'd greatly appreciate a link to support it, as it's one of the items on the survey, and we're supposed to counter in a few days... Thanks, ever so much... L8R Skip and Lydia, anticipating "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
#5
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Watermakers and Chlorine -Correction for Steve D
Sorry. Typo there. The correct number is SW30-2521 not 2520. Dow's
MSRP for the SW30-2521 is $250.00 and the srteet price is as low as $153. Lowest price I have seen so far is at: http://www.bigbrandwaterfilters.com/membranes.html The 2520 is a custom length that I think only one or two WM builders use. I don't remember which but somehow I associate that size with the one with the titanium head pump. Glenn Ashmore wrote: Take off $700 from the purchase price for the replacement of the membranes. The broker may have prevented bacterial growth but he has ruined the membranes. They are long gone. Chlorinated water is death to RO membranes. If they are standard 21"x2.5" membranes you can get Filmtec SW30-2520 membranes for about $200 each but don't tell the broker that. Have him call Pur and get their ridiculous price. :-) -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
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Watermakers and Chlorine -Correction for Steve D
Looks like you did my research for me.. I have been considering adding one
or two more membranes to my HRO sytem (it will handle up to 3 but currently has only one). The membrane prices look good to me, now I need to find the pressure vessels. Do you have any recommendations or words of wisdom on these?? Steve s/v Good Intentions |
#7
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Watermakers and Chlorine -Correction for Steve D
Research is my middle name. :-)
There are two basic types. The white ones with black ends are made by A&M Composites in Houston. They have about 90% of the US market. The ones with the molded flair ends are made in Europe and are a good bit more expensive. Pacific RO has the best price I have found for the A&M vessels. http://www.pacificro.com/DePress2.htm You need the 1000 PSI 2.5x21 model at the bottom of the page. Hint: They don't like working with end users so sound "official" when you call. ;-) And don't mention my name. They got a little POed after they visited my site and figured out I was not really a "dealer". Steve wrote: Looks like you did my research for me.. I have been considering adding one or two more membranes to my HRO sytem (it will handle up to 3 but currently has only one). The membrane prices look good to me, now I need to find the pressure vessels. Do you have any recommendations or words of wisdom on these?? Steve s/v Good Intentions -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |
#8
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Watermakers and Chlorine -Correction for Steve D
Sorry. Typo there. The correct number is SW30-2521 not 2520. Dow's MSRP for the SW30-2521 is $250.00 and the srteet price is as low as $153. Lowest price I have seen so far is at: http://www.bigbrandwaterfilters.com/membranes.html Only for my education.... I have read somewhere about "home made" watermakers... but I don't rember where... I have made my google homework... :-) No result. Do you have any reference, link, info? I am interested in one small, simple unit for a sailboat... Tank you Paolo |
#9
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Watermakers and Chlorine -Correction for Steve D
I think Brent Swain gives details in one of his books. Buildable for about
$1,000 Canadian Only for my education.... I have read somewhere about "home made" watermakers... but I don't rember where... I have made my google homework... :-) No result. Do you have any reference, link, info? I am interested in one small, simple unit for a sailboat... Tank you Paolo |
#10
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Watermakers and Chlorine -Correction for Steve D
Paolo Zini wrote: Only for my education.... I have read somewhere about "home made" watermakers... but I don't rember where... I have made my google homework... :-) No result. Do you have any reference, link, info? I am interested in one small, simple unit for a sailboat... Tank you Paolo I have a couple of pages about the one I built on my site under the "Systems" section. http://www.rutuonline.com/html/watermaker.html It is not small (800GPD) but with a lot of research and a little imaginative procurement it came out just a little over $2,500. Because it is engine driven I had to add a speed interlock to protect the system which added about $150. I went a little overboard adding a 3 button remote controls with digital flow and pressure displays for the cockpit and nav station, automatic flush and electronic TDS product diverter but if you did a basic manual 800GPD system it could come out under $2K. My sources were all in the US but you should be able to find the similar equipment in the EU. You might get better prices on Sehan membranes over there than Filmtec and Bekaert Composites housings may be easier to get than A&M. The key is to find a good deal on a stainless or nickel aluminum bronze head pump. Grundfos makes a titanium head pump to die for but they are very expensive. Ideally you want a 1200 PSI plunger pump with at least seven times the desired product water flow . The more common 3000PSI pressure washer pumps are not as efficient at the 800PSI an R/O system operates at. Once you get the pump there is not a lot of difference in cost (about $450) between a 400 and 800 GPD system. -- Glenn Ashmore I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com |