Where is hull design going?
 

What about epoxied tissue paper stretched over coathanger wire framing?

:)

Brian

--
My boat project: http://www.advantagecomposites.com/tongass


"Terry Spragg" wrote in message
...


gjoyce wrote:

I figured this erudite group could point me in the correct direction.
I've been
cruising thru a variety of naval research sites, but was wondering
what you
designer-types might think.

Where do you see hull design - shapes, materials, coatings,
propulsion, etc. - going in the near - and not so near - future?

Thanks

Gary P. Joyce

Solar cell jetpump ultralightweight nesting hydrofoil speedboats,
of course.

Pop bottles taped together, polyglass / used nylon stocking
(pantyhose), cardboard core reinforced plastic "boat" style kite
/ airplanes using hydrogen "cold steam" sculling oolau drive
engines, assisted by the aero-bouyant hydrogen gas bag /
fuselage, towing water ballasted keels.

Didn't you know?

--
Terry K - My email address is MY PROPERTY, and is protected by
copyright legislation. Permission to reproduce it is
specifically denied for mass mailing and unrequested
solicitations. Reproduction or conveyance for any unauthorised
purpose is THEFT and PLAGIARISM. Abuse is Invasion of privacy
and harassment. Abusers may be prosecuted. -This notice footer
released to public domain. Spamspoof salad by spamchock -
SofDevCo

getting it on paper
 

Hi

(William R. Watt) wrote in message ...
I've used 3 computer programs so far. My own free skiff program to get the
rocker and flare to put the stem heel and transom at the load waterline.
The free Blue Peter program to include the cabin in the table of offsets,
automatically adjust trim to balance the hull, and then compute the
hydrostatic numbers. The free Carlson program for the shapes of the
plywood hull panels. I'm certain that's easier than computing the numbers
and "unfolding" the plywood panels by hand, for me anyway. Did I mention
the programs are free? :)

Snip

There are several way\s to get the measures from a model down on
paper.
When there , it is somtimes somtimes not an idear to press the button
and "smooth" the resulting mesh , ------- sorry it's a long
explernation why "somtimes not" , but this deal with what unfolding
software you use.
But placing lines on the model that follow a plane, sort like cutting
the model in slices is possible in many way's , even with a camara but
then you still need to place lines on the model first and remember to
correct for the perspective. Acturly before drawings was interduced
back the 16' century, naval shipyards was totaly dependant on models ;
huge vessels was build from measures taken directly on scale models ,
but it was not to be able to acturly build the ship , but to be able
to build another one as good, as the one that showed good abilities.
------- And to be able to steal the good idears of the enemy , when
one of their ships was taken.
Now I will not start critic Carlson software but from what I seen , it
offer very limited oppotunities. But as I said I hardly remember it as
I only tried it once and instantly scrapped it, after testing it up
against my in-house applications. What I remember is that I was most
unplesant with hulls where the unfolding shuld be based on 6 or 8
strait lines forming a hull that smooth perfect with the rendering
smooth rutines but is still an edgy raw model.
--------- maby I shuld explain, that you can draw quite edgy models,
but when you render these the rendering software will smooth all but
show a hull that is much nicer, than if you stay with the raw 3D model
and make that unfold.
My designs of say a 7 meter hull ,divide each panel into maby 800
small strait lines ,making any foult smaller than what a weld or a
glue line will cover, beside as there are still some handywork
involved, a panel cut from a smooth rounded line, consisting of say
700 small strait lines of each one Cm. length , will be a complete
spline after first blow with the hand plane.

Please check the old presentation of the tradisional norwegian pram
redesigned for Cyber-Boat, here there are somthing like 200 small
lines along the boat ;

http://w1.1396.telia.com/~u139600113...olmsbu-1-2.gif

So realy I blame the software that amature builders havn't been able
to find easier user interface, ------ realy untill a 100 years ago and
since that to, lots of perfect designs been produced by builders being
better making a model than doing a drawing , what count is not the
program but the feel and will.

P.C.

getting it on paper
 

Hi

(William R. Watt) wrote in message ...
I've used 3 computer programs so far. My own free skiff program to get the
rocker and flare to put the stem heel and transom at the load waterline.
The free Blue Peter program to include the cabin in the table of offsets,
automatically adjust trim to balance the hull, and then compute the
hydrostatic numbers. The free Carlson program for the shapes of the
plywood hull panels. I'm certain that's easier than computing the numbers
and "unfolding" the plywood panels by hand, for me anyway. Did I mention
the programs are free? :)

Snip

There are several way\s to get the measures from a model down on
paper.
When there , it is somtimes somtimes not an idear to press the button
and "smooth" the resulting mesh , ------- sorry it's a long
explernation why "somtimes not" , but this deal with what unfolding
software you use.
But placing lines on the model that follow a plane, sort like cutting
the model in slices is possible in many way's , even with a camara but
then you still need to place lines on the model first and remember to
correct for the perspective. Acturly before drawings was interduced
back the 16' century, naval shipyards was totaly dependant on models ;
huge vessels was build from measures taken directly on scale models ,
but it was not to be able to acturly build the ship , but to be able
to build another one as good, as the one that showed good abilities.
------- And to be able to steal the good idears of the enemy , when
one of their ships was taken.
Now I will not start critic Carlson software but from what I seen , it
offer very limited oppotunities. But as I said I hardly remember it as
I only tried it once and instantly scrapped it, after testing it up
against my in-house applications. What I remember is that I was most
unplesant with hulls where the unfolding shuld be based on 6 or 8
strait lines forming a hull that smooth perfect with the rendering
smooth rutines but is still an edgy raw model.
--------- maby I shuld explain, that you can draw quite edgy models,
but when you render these the rendering software will smooth all but
show a hull that is much nicer, than if you stay with the raw 3D model
and make that unfold.
My designs of say a 7 meter hull ,divide each panel into maby 800
small strait lines ,making any foult smaller than what a weld or a
glue line will cover, beside as there are still some handywork
involved, a panel cut from a smooth rounded line, consisting of say
700 small strait lines of each one Cm. length , will be a complete
spline after first blow with the hand plane.

Please check the old presentation of the tradisional norwegian pram
redesigned for Cyber-Boat, here there are somthing like 200 small
lines along the boat ;

http://w1.1396.telia.com/~u139600113...olmsbu-1-2.gif

So realy I blame the software that amature builders havn't been able
to find easier user interface, ------ realy untill a 100 years ago and
since that to, lots of perfect designs been produced by builders being
better making a model than doing a drawing , what count is not the
program but the feel and will.

P.C.

getting it on paper
 

Per Corell ) writes:

Now I will not start critic Carlson software but from what I seen , it
offer very limited oppotunities.

It's because of the Carlson program's limit of 3 stations plus stem and
transom (calls them "bulkheads") to define the hull that I used the Blue
Peter program first. The Carlson program does insert two points on each
chine between stations for smoothing which can be done on these points
with a mouse pointer but that's still rough. For plotting it prints out
points at 8 frames which the user may locate. No doubt more points allow
for better definition of the hull, especially for larger hulls which are
on a larger scale.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-freenet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned

getting it on paper
 

Hi


(William R. Watt) wrote in message ...
Per Corell ) writes:

Now I will not start critic Carlson software but from what I seen , it
offer very limited oppotunities.

It's because of the Carlson program's limit of 3 stations plus stem and
transom (calls them "bulkheads") to define the hull that I used the Blue
Peter program first. The Carlson program does insert two points on each
chine between stations for smoothing which can be done on these points
with a mouse pointer but that's still rough. For plotting it prints out
points at 8 frames which the user may locate. No doubt more points allow
for better definition of the hull, especially for larger hulls which are
on a larger scale.


But -- but this is simply to bad, you need more points than that for
develobing and plotting , ------- maby as defination points for a
spline or smoothened surface on a screen ,but less than halve Inch.
between the points shuld be the least quality for generating mesh
entities.
Realy the trick have been done since 3D surfaced ; guess unfolding
single curved surfaces been an option from the start ,but just
software that make a to rough mesh been the trouble. Only problem
with the software I used is, that the entity you can make in AutoCAD
is not avaible unless an application produce the entity ------ the
command is there and will produce a multi row single curved mesh but
you simply can not reach it without the application you need to make
or find , beside unfolding work only, when points is distribuated the
way the unfolding software expect. So producing a reasoable unfolding
rutine in AutoCAD also requier an application that produce the mesh
entity the right way. -------- Realy I thought somthing better was
avaible ; I know Rhino will not unfold entities imported from AutoCAD
but it shuld be able to unfold entities produced inside the program,
maby Im't wrong I never realy needed others than my own software.

P.C.

getting it on paper
 

(William R. Watt) wrote in message ...


Snip

I've scanned sketches and captured screen images. If all goes well I hope
to take photos of models and scan them too.

If it's ever finished I won't be selling plans. People could use the design
for free as long as they don't use it for profit.

Did you try download a program to make 3D models from foto's ?
Like this ;

http://www.photomodeler.com/

P.C.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Cyber-Boat/