Thank you Brian.
I stay tuned and wait.As far as I know water ballast in sailing boats didn't
work.
I will anxiously wait for what you can post for power vessels


"Brian D" wrote in message
news:EH9pb.85017$HS4.691371@attbi_s01...
Stay tuned ...on a much smaller boat, there was one produced that did all
these things. I think the concept and how the boat worked were up to
snuff,
but the company built cheaply (or something) and ended up going out of
business, or something like that. Anyway, to make a long story short, a
friend of mine told me about a boat that could be used for planing (w/o
ballast), or sailing (w/ballast), or motoring in rough seas (w/ballast).
He
had pictures. I'll dig up a reference and post it here... it was
interesting.

Brian

"Jim Woodward" jameslwoodward at attbi dot com wrote in message
...
Broadly speaking, it's done all the time in larger vessels.

Fintry was built with tanks for 50,000 pounds of seawater ballast. We'
re
putting a bow thruster in the forward one, so we'll replace the weight
there
with lead, but the aft pair (14,000 pounds each, p&s) allow us to get
her
up
to a draft of less than seven feet for sheltered waters or down to over
eight feet at sea.

Actually doing it in a boat that will go between planing and
displacement,
is another thing. The hull forms are quite different and it might prove
to
be a challenge. And, of course, you're talking about a lot of water --
you
might not like what it does to the interior in a 46 foot boat. You can
see
Fintry's tanks between frames 2-6 and 41-45 at
http://www.mvfintry.com/details.htm -- the scale on all the drawings
shows
frame spacing, which are 20" apart.

--
Jim Woodward
www.mvFintry.com

"AP" wrote in message
...
I want to build a cruiser with the following characteristics
46 foot with very deep V foreward. 25-28 degrees deadrise at transom
Overpowered.
And I want to have a " ballast tank."
The idea is :
If the sea is calm I will have the ballast tank empty and I will make
her
plan using my extra horsepower.
If the sea is rough (or I meet heavy weather on the way) I will
ballast
my
tank, increase the displacement, will slow down the engines and I will
be
sailing like a deep V boat, good for
rough weather.
Does that make sense??
Comments/suggestions are kindly invited.
Regards
AP

Here's the info that I was thinking of. NOT what you are looking for, but
interesting nonetheless. Good luck!

Brian

----

Brian,

Here's the archived site for the MacGregor 19 that I owned. It was a crummy
sailboat in many respects, the water ballast didn't provide sufficient
stiffness under sail in strong wind, but the ballast was great under power
in a nasty chop. A very pleasant power boat with great accomodations for 19
feet. It's no longer made; they do a 25 or 26 footer now with round chines
rather than the hard chines of the 19. Conventional wisdom is that these
guys make inexpensive low quality sail boats that don't perform very well
under sail, but they're quite popular. They're mass produced just outside
of Newport Beach, Ca, I think.

http://www.dougpile.com/mac19/sales.html

I think water ballast needs a lot of thought and the physics of it are not
quite clear or obvious, I gotta think about it sometime.

To see one of Phil Bolger's designs that can sail and go fast under power,
go to Bill McKibben's boat page (he's on Vancouver Island). Scroll down to
"Ada" the fast motorsailer:

http://www.boatdesign.com/jumps/mckib/Page.html

I remember the first time I ever got a sailboat to plane under sail, a very
exhilarating experience, I was 14, it was a Dutch Flying Tern (14 feet
long). Planing under sail feels so much different than planing under
power - you hear all sorts of hull and water sounds, and various vibrations
that come and go, and strong wind gusts feel like a big hand just grabbing
you and pushing hard, and you can't predict how long it will last - an
entirely different sense of acceleration than engine power.

Oh! several years ago on the web, I noticed an aluminum planing outboard
power boat (no sails), about 19 feet, made in BC, and it had water ballast
available for rough going - I've always wanted to investigate it, but I
haven't been able to find it again.



"AP" wrote in message
...
Thank you Brian.
I stay tuned and wait.As far as I know water ballast in sailing boats
didn't
work.
I will anxiously wait for what you can post for power vessels


"Brian D" wrote in message
news:EH9pb.85017$HS4.691371@attbi_s01...
Stay tuned ...on a much smaller boat, there was one produced that did
all
these things. I think the concept and how the boat worked were up to
snuff,
but the company built cheaply (or something) and ended up going out of
business, or something like that. Anyway, to make a long story short, a
friend of mine told me about a boat that could be used for planing (w/o
ballast), or sailing (w/ballast), or motoring in rough seas (w/ballast).
He
had pictures. I'll dig up a reference and post it here... it was
interesting.

Brian

"Jim Woodward" jameslwoodward at attbi dot com wrote in message
...
Broadly speaking, it's done all the time in larger vessels.

Fintry was built with tanks for 50,000 pounds of seawater ballast.
We'
re
putting a bow thruster in the forward one, so we'll replace the weight
there
with lead, but the aft pair (14,000 pounds each, p&s) allow us to get
her
up
to a draft of less than seven feet for sheltered waters or down to
over
eight feet at sea.

Actually doing it in a boat that will go between planing and
displacement,
is another thing. The hull forms are quite different and it might
prove
to
be a challenge. And, of course, you're talking about a lot of
water --
you
might not like what it does to the interior in a 46 foot boat. You
can
see
Fintry's tanks between frames 2-6 and 41-45 at
http://www.mvfintry.com/details.htm -- the scale on all the drawings
shows
frame spacing, which are 20" apart.

--
Jim Woodward
www.mvFintry.com

"AP" wrote in message
...
I want to build a cruiser with the following characteristics
46 foot with very deep V foreward. 25-28 degrees deadrise at
transom
Overpowered.
And I want to have a " ballast tank."
The idea is :
If the sea is calm I will have the ballast tank empty and I will
make
her
plan using my extra horsepower.
If the sea is rough (or I meet heavy weather on the way) I will
ballast
my
tank, increase the displacement, will slow down the engines and I
will
be
sailing like a deep V boat, good for
rough weather.
Does that make sense??
Comments/suggestions are kindly invited.
Regards
AP

This link is probably what was wanted:
http://www.macgregor26.com/table.htm
Saw one that was manufactured two years ago, and it looked fairly decently
finished to my untrained eye. It's certainly a compromise, but not an
unreasonable one.

surfnturf

"Brian D" wrote in message
newsCjpb.91293$e01.316068@attbi_s02...


Here's the info that I was thinking of. NOT what you are looking for, but
interesting nonetheless. Good luck!

Brian

----

Brian,

Here's the archived site for the MacGregor 19 that I owned. It was a
crummy
sailboat in many respects, the water ballast didn't provide sufficient
stiffness under sail in strong wind, but the ballast was great under power
in a nasty chop. A very pleasant power boat with great accomodations for
19
feet. It's no longer made; they do a 25 or 26 footer now with round
chines
rather than the hard chines of the 19. Conventional wisdom is that these
guys make inexpensive low quality sail boats that don't perform very well
under sail, but they're quite popular. They're mass produced just outside
of Newport Beach, Ca, I think.

http://www.dougpile.com/mac19/sales.html

I think water ballast needs a lot of thought and the physics of it are not
quite clear or obvious, I gotta think about it sometime.

To see one of Phil Bolger's designs that can sail and go fast under power,
go to Bill McKibben's boat page (he's on Vancouver Island). Scroll down
to
"Ada" the fast motorsailer:

http://www.boatdesign.com/jumps/mckib/Page.html

I remember the first time I ever got a sailboat to plane under sail, a
very
exhilarating experience, I was 14, it was a Dutch Flying Tern (14 feet
long). Planing under sail feels so much different than planing under
power - you hear all sorts of hull and water sounds, and various
vibrations
that come and go, and strong wind gusts feel like a big hand just grabbing
you and pushing hard, and you can't predict how long it will last - an
entirely different sense of acceleration than engine power.

Oh! several years ago on the web, I noticed an aluminum planing outboard
power boat (no sails), about 19 feet, made in BC, and it had water ballast
available for rough going - I've always wanted to investigate it, but I
haven't been able to find it again.



"AP" wrote in message
...
Thank you Brian.
I stay tuned and wait.As far as I know water ballast in sailing boats
didn't
work.
I will anxiously wait for what you can post for power vessels


"Brian D" wrote in message
news:EH9pb.85017$HS4.691371@attbi_s01...
Stay tuned ...on a much smaller boat, there was one produced that did
all
these things. I think the concept and how the boat worked were up to
snuff,
but the company built cheaply (or something) and ended up going out of
business, or something like that. Anyway, to make a long story short,
a
friend of mine told me about a boat that could be used for planing
(w/o
ballast), or sailing (w/ballast), or motoring in rough seas
(w/ballast).
He
had pictures. I'll dig up a reference and post it here... it was
interesting.

Brian

"Jim Woodward" jameslwoodward at attbi dot com wrote in message
...
Broadly speaking, it's done all the time in larger vessels.

Fintry was built with tanks for 50,000 pounds of seawater ballast.
We'
re
putting a bow thruster in the forward one, so we'll replace the
weight
there
with lead, but the aft pair (14,000 pounds each, p&s) allow us to
get
her
up
to a draft of less than seven feet for sheltered waters or down to
over
eight feet at sea.

Actually doing it in a boat that will go between planing and
displacement,
is another thing. The hull forms are quite different and it might
prove
to
be a challenge. And, of course, you're talking about a lot of
water --
you
might not like what it does to the interior in a 46 foot boat. You
can
see
Fintry's tanks between frames 2-6 and 41-45 at
http://www.mvfintry.com/details.htm -- the scale on all the
drawings
shows
frame spacing, which are 20" apart.

--
Jim Woodward
www.mvFintry.com

"AP" wrote in message
...
I want to build a cruiser with the following characteristics
46 foot with very deep V foreward. 25-28 degrees deadrise at
transom
Overpowered.
And I want to have a " ballast tank."
The idea is :
If the sea is calm I will have the ballast tank empty and I will
make
her
plan using my extra horsepower.
If the sea is rough (or I meet heavy weather on the way) I will
ballast
my
tank, increase the displacement, will slow down the engines and I
will
be
sailing like a deep V boat, good for
rough weather.
Does that make sense??
Comments/suggestions are kindly invited.
Regards
AP

Thanks "surfnturf"
It was very interesting. It is a smart design and the man put it together in
a pack for
$18000, which ic not easy at all.
The concept is more or less the same (as far as ballast is concerned) and I
was happy to see that this idea has worked.
Thanks again.



"surfnturf" wrote in message
news:T6Epb.284748$6C4.35235@pd7tw1no...
This link is probably what was wanted:
http://www.macgregor26.com/table.htm
Saw one that was manufactured two years ago, and it looked fairly decently
finished to my untrained eye. It's certainly a compromise, but not an
unreasonable one.

surfnturf

"Brian D" wrote in message
newsCjpb.91293$e01.316068@attbi_s02...


Here's the info that I was thinking of. NOT what you are looking for,
but
interesting nonetheless. Good luck!

Brian

----

Brian,

Here's the archived site for the MacGregor 19 that I owned. It was a
crummy
sailboat in many respects, the water ballast didn't provide sufficient
stiffness under sail in strong wind, but the ballast was great under
power
in a nasty chop. A very pleasant power boat with great accomodations
for
19
feet. It's no longer made; they do a 25 or 26 footer now with round
chines
rather than the hard chines of the 19. Conventional wisdom is that
these
guys make inexpensive low quality sail boats that don't perform very
well
under sail, but they're quite popular. They're mass produced just
outside
of Newport Beach, Ca, I think.

http://www.dougpile.com/mac19/sales.html

I think water ballast needs a lot of thought and the physics of it are
not
quite clear or obvious, I gotta think about it sometime.

To see one of Phil Bolger's designs that can sail and go fast under
power,
go to Bill McKibben's boat page (he's on Vancouver Island). Scroll down
to
"Ada" the fast motorsailer:

http://www.boatdesign.com/jumps/mckib/Page.html

I remember the first time I ever got a sailboat to plane under sail, a
very
exhilarating experience, I was 14, it was a Dutch Flying Tern (14 feet
long). Planing under sail feels so much different than planing under
power - you hear all sorts of hull and water sounds, and various
vibrations
that come and go, and strong wind gusts feel like a big hand just
grabbing
you and pushing hard, and you can't predict how long it will last - an
entirely different sense of acceleration than engine power.

Oh! several years ago on the web, I noticed an aluminum planing outboard
power boat (no sails), about 19 feet, made in BC, and it had water
ballast
available for rough going - I've always wanted to investigate it, but I
haven't been able to find it again.



"AP" wrote in message
...
Thank you Brian.
I stay tuned and wait.As far as I know water ballast in sailing boats
didn't
work.
I will anxiously wait for what you can post for power vessels


"Brian D" wrote in message
news:EH9pb.85017$HS4.691371@attbi_s01...
Stay tuned ...on a much smaller boat, there was one produced that
did
all
these things. I think the concept and how the boat worked were up
to
snuff,
but the company built cheaply (or something) and ended up going out
of
business, or something like that. Anyway, to make a long story
short,
a
friend of mine told me about a boat that could be used for planing
(w/o
ballast), or sailing (w/ballast), or motoring in rough seas
(w/ballast).
He
had pictures. I'll dig up a reference and post it here... it was
interesting.

Brian

"Jim Woodward" jameslwoodward at attbi dot com wrote in message
...
Broadly speaking, it's done all the time in larger vessels.

Fintry was built with tanks for 50,000 pounds of seawater ballast.
We'
re
putting a bow thruster in the forward one, so we'll replace the
weight
there
with lead, but the aft pair (14,000 pounds each, p&s) allow us to
get
her
up
to a draft of less than seven feet for sheltered waters or down to
over
eight feet at sea.

Actually doing it in a boat that will go between planing and
displacement,
is another thing. The hull forms are quite different and it might
prove
to
be a challenge. And, of course, you're talking about a lot of
water --
you
might not like what it does to the interior in a 46 foot boat.
You
can
see
Fintry's tanks between frames 2-6 and 41-45 at
http://www.mvfintry.com/details.htm -- the scale on all the
drawings
shows
frame spacing, which are 20" apart.

--
Jim Woodward
www.mvFintry.com

"AP" wrote in message
...
I want to build a cruiser with the following characteristics
46 foot with very deep V foreward. 25-28 degrees deadrise at
transom
Overpowered.
And I want to have a " ballast tank."
The idea is :
If the sea is calm I will have the ballast tank empty and I will
make
her
plan using my extra horsepower.
If the sea is rough (or I meet heavy weather on the way) I will
ballast
my
tank, increase the displacement, will slow down the engines and
I
will
be
sailing like a deep V boat, good for
rough weather.
Does that make sense??
Comments/suggestions are kindly invited.
Regards
AP

Thanks Brian.

"Brian D" wrote in message
newsCjpb.91293$e01.316068@attbi_s02...


Here's the info that I was thinking of. NOT what you are looking for, but
interesting nonetheless. Good luck!

Brian

----

Brian,

Here's the archived site for the MacGregor 19 that I owned. It was a
crummy
sailboat in many respects, the water ballast didn't provide sufficient
stiffness under sail in strong wind, but the ballast was great under power
in a nasty chop. A very pleasant power boat with great accomodations for
19
feet. It's no longer made; they do a 25 or 26 footer now with round
chines
rather than the hard chines of the 19. Conventional wisdom is that these
guys make inexpensive low quality sail boats that don't perform very well
under sail, but they're quite popular. They're mass produced just outside
of Newport Beach, Ca, I think.

http://www.dougpile.com/mac19/sales.html

I think water ballast needs a lot of thought and the physics of it are not
quite clear or obvious, I gotta think about it sometime.

To see one of Phil Bolger's designs that can sail and go fast under power,
go to Bill McKibben's boat page (he's on Vancouver Island). Scroll down
to
"Ada" the fast motorsailer:

http://www.boatdesign.com/jumps/mckib/Page.html

I remember the first time I ever got a sailboat to plane under sail, a
very
exhilarating experience, I was 14, it was a Dutch Flying Tern (14 feet
long). Planing under sail feels so much different than planing under
power - you hear all sorts of hull and water sounds, and various
vibrations
that come and go, and strong wind gusts feel like a big hand just grabbing
you and pushing hard, and you can't predict how long it will last - an
entirely different sense of acceleration than engine power.

Oh! several years ago on the web, I noticed an aluminum planing outboard
power boat (no sails), about 19 feet, made in BC, and it had water ballast
available for rough going - I've always wanted to investigate it, but I
haven't been able to find it again.



"AP" wrote in message
...
Thank you Brian.
I stay tuned and wait.As far as I know water ballast in sailing boats
didn't
work.
I will anxiously wait for what you can post for power vessels


"Brian D" wrote in message
news:EH9pb.85017$HS4.691371@attbi_s01...
Stay tuned ...on a much smaller boat, there was one produced that did
all
these things. I think the concept and how the boat worked were up to
snuff,
but the company built cheaply (or something) and ended up going out of
business, or something like that. Anyway, to make a long story short,
a
friend of mine told me about a boat that could be used for planing
(w/o
ballast), or sailing (w/ballast), or motoring in rough seas
(w/ballast).
He
had pictures. I'll dig up a reference and post it here... it was
interesting.

Brian

"Jim Woodward" jameslwoodward at attbi dot com wrote in message
...
Broadly speaking, it's done all the time in larger vessels.

Fintry was built with tanks for 50,000 pounds of seawater ballast.
We'
re
putting a bow thruster in the forward one, so we'll replace the
weight
there
with lead, but the aft pair (14,000 pounds each, p&s) allow us to
get
her
up
to a draft of less than seven feet for sheltered waters or down to
over
eight feet at sea.

Actually doing it in a boat that will go between planing and
displacement,
is another thing. The hull forms are quite different and it might
prove
to
be a challenge. And, of course, you're talking about a lot of
water --
you
might not like what it does to the interior in a 46 foot boat. You
can
see
Fintry's tanks between frames 2-6 and 41-45 at
http://www.mvfintry.com/details.htm -- the scale on all the
drawings
shows
frame spacing, which are 20" apart.

--
Jim Woodward
www.mvFintry.com

"AP" wrote in message
...
I want to build a cruiser with the following characteristics
46 foot with very deep V foreward. 25-28 degrees deadrise at
transom
Overpowered.
And I want to have a " ballast tank."
The idea is :
If the sea is calm I will have the ballast tank empty and I will
make
her
plan using my extra horsepower.
If the sea is rough (or I meet heavy weather on the way) I will
ballast
my
tank, increase the displacement, will slow down the engines and I
will
be
sailing like a deep V boat, good for
rough weather.
Does that make sense??
Comments/suggestions are kindly invited.
Regards
AP