Ok ... I'm not a real plumber, but I've refurbished a few houses over the
years, and just finished relocating (well, ok, the vent fan is still in the
box ... ) the kitchen in the old side of the house from one room to another
.... so what's the situation?

Bowgus wrote:

Ok ... I'm not a real plumber, but I've refurbished a few houses over the
years, and just finished relocating (well, ok, the vent fan is still in the
box ... ) the kitchen in the old side of the house from one room to another
... so what's the situation?

What could possibly plug up a bathroom sink drain that even 3 doses of
straight sulphuric acid can't dissolve??? And if sulphuric acid won't
dissolve it, what will, that won't also destroy the pipe (PVC, btw)???

Nothing has fallen into it...it's been gradually getting a little slower
for a while. It's not quite plugged completely...but drains so slowly
that the sink is all but unuseable. Fortunately my master bath has a
double vanity with two sinks...the other one drains just fine, or I'd be
up a creek.

The problem is further compounded by the fact that the p-traps have to
be the only ones on the planet that do not have threaded connections to
the pipes...there's no way to get the trap off without breaking a
cemented joint (pipes are PVC, btw). And I don't think I can get a snake
through the pipe unless I do remove the trap. Otoh, if sulphuric acid
won't dissolve whatever is in there, I prob'ly couldn't snake it anyway.

I don't want to pay a plumbing $100 just to pour something else down the
drain that I can buy for $10. There has to be something that'll dissolve
the clog...but if sulphuric acid won't do it, what will???

I'm open to any ideas that won't dissolve the pipes too.
--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

On Mon, 17 Oct 2005 03:41:29 GMT, Peggie Hall
wrote:

Bowgus wrote:

Ok ... I'm not a real plumber, but I've refurbished a few houses over the
years, and just finished relocating (well, ok, the vent fan is still in the
box ... ) the kitchen in the old side of the house from one room to another
... so what's the situation?

What could possibly plug up a bathroom sink drain that even 3 doses of
straight sulphuric acid can't dissolve??? And if sulphuric acid won't
dissolve it, what will, that won't also destroy the pipe (PVC, btw)???

Nothing has fallen into it...it's been gradually getting a little slower
for a while. It's not quite plugged completely...but drains so slowly
that the sink is all but unuseable. Fortunately my master bath has a
double vanity with two sinks...the other one drains just fine, or I'd be
up a creek.

The problem is further compounded by the fact that the p-traps have to
be the only ones on the planet that do not have threaded connections to
the pipes...there's no way to get the trap off without breaking a
cemented joint (pipes are PVC, btw). And I don't think I can get a snake
through the pipe unless I do remove the trap. Otoh, if sulphuric acid
won't dissolve whatever is in there, I prob'ly couldn't snake it anyway.

I don't want to pay a plumbing $100 just to pour something else down the
drain that I can buy for $10. There has to be something that'll dissolve
the clog...but if sulphuric acid won't do it, what will???

I'm open to any ideas that won't dissolve the pipes too.

Without researching the topic, I recall that lye saponifies grease to
soap, which is water soluble.
That seems like it has a fighting chance - since lye is somewhat
easier on metals than acids, usually?

Brian Whatcott Altus OK

Well .. here's a few thoughts ...

What could possibly plug up a bathroom sink drain that even 3 doses of
straight sulphuric acid can't dissolve??? And if sulphuric acid won't
dissolve it, what will, that won't also destroy the pipe (PVC, btw)???

Sulphuric acid ... yikes. First, check that you don't have a mess of hair
stuck in the strainer affair in the bottom of the sink. You can use needle
nose pliers to poke around there and pull up any that might be there. If
that's not the problem, try what's called a plunger :-) to clear the
p-trap. You have to hold a wet cloth over the overflow drain to do this
properly ... best done as a 2 person job. If that does not work, and there's
no "cleanout" (that plug that unscrews from the bottom of the trap) in the
p trap, then you might as well replace the trap with one that has one. I'm
sure you're familiar with abs and its installation. I'd just cut the old
drain at a convenient spot, and install a new trap.

Nothing has fallen into it...it's been gradually getting a little slower
for a while. It's not quite plugged completely...but drains so slowly
that the sink is all but unuseable.

Having said all that, if you have a long run from the sink to the main waste
pipe, the problem could be there ... especially if there's no vent pipe
(that second pipe that allows air in to help with the draining). So if you
do replace the p trap, and there is a long run, maybe snake that run while
you're at it. But you know what ... I'm betting there's a big clog of hair
clinging to the bottom of the strainer in the basin :-).

I don't want to pay a plumbing $100 just to pour something else down the
drain that I can buy for $10. There has to be something that'll dissolve
the clog...but if sulphuric acid won't do it, what will???

I'm open to any ideas that won't dissolve the pipes too.

I'm not a plumber, but my richest cousin is a plumbing contractor in
Chicago, and I've been fighting clogged drains for 45 years.

Bowgus has the right idea; replace the trap(s). Sooner or later you'll need
to open them up again. I wouldn't worry about the cleanout plug since most
traps assemble and disassemble easily (except the one from 1919 that I
tackled in Florida. It was soldered in). Put a bucket under the work area
of course.

As to the "long run" idea, note that she said it's a double sink vanity and
the other sink works fine.

Every tool box should have what I call my "skinny fingers." It's a
galvanized metal gadget with a hypodermic type handle on top, a flexible
shaft, and, at the working end, three spring steel fingers that slide in and
out of a 1/4" OD steel tube. About 12" long overall, it retrieves hair
balls, Legos and diamond rings from drains pretty well. You can usually
find them at the auto parts stores.

Roger

http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm

"Bowgus" wrote in message
...
Well .. here's a few thoughts ...

What could possibly plug up a bathroom sink drain that even 3 doses of
straight sulphuric acid can't dissolve??? And if sulphuric acid won't
dissolve it, what will, that won't also destroy the pipe (PVC, btw)???

Sulphuric acid ... yikes. First, check that you don't have a mess of hair
stuck in the strainer affair in the bottom of the sink. You can use needle
nose pliers to poke around there and pull up any that might be there. If
that's not the problem, try what's called a plunger :-) to clear the
p-trap. You have to hold a wet cloth over the overflow drain to do this
properly ... best done as a 2 person job. If that does not work, and
there's
no "cleanout" (that plug that unscrews from the bottom of the trap) in
the
p trap, then you might as well replace the trap with one that has one. I'm
sure you're familiar with abs and its installation. I'd just cut the old
drain at a convenient spot, and install a new trap.

Nothing has fallen into it...it's been gradually getting a little slower
for a while. It's not quite plugged completely...but drains so slowly
that the sink is all but unuseable.

Having said all that, if you have a long run from the sink to the main
waste
pipe, the problem could be there ... especially if there's no vent pipe
(that second pipe that allows air in to help with the draining). So if you
do replace the p trap, and there is a long run, maybe snake that run while
you're at it. But you know what ... I'm betting there's a big clog of hair
clinging to the bottom of the strainer in the basin :-).

I don't want to pay a plumbing $100 just to pour something else down the
drain that I can buy for $10. There has to be something that'll dissolve
the clog...but if sulphuric acid won't do it, what will???

I'm open to any ideas that won't dissolve the pipes too.

Acid shouldn't damage the plastic drain but it's hell on copper pipe.

I second (or third) the suggestion to clean out the drain by probing and
flushing with a plunger. I have long hair and have to clean out the sink
drains from time to time. You can just use a thin bladed knife to poke
around, or a bent coat hanger to get right down into the trap. Then fill
the sink half full of water, pull the plug and quickly put the plunger
over the drain. I get the best results pulling up on the plunger to suck
stuff out of the drain instead of pushing to try and force it through the
pipe into the sewer. Pick up the sludge that gets sucked back up inte the
sink and toss it in the garbage.

I've replaced a soldered solid brass P-trap with plastic and compression
fittings. It's straight forward and easy to do. All you keed is a hacksaw.
However take a look at the pipe too, the sludge built up in thin chromed
copper pipe promotes corrosion and those piples can become thin and weak.
I've had pinholes in those pipes. This house was built in 1964. I too have
a double vanity in the upstairs bath. I replaced both sinks and one of the
P-traps on those last spring. The faucettes were soldered to the water
pipes. They were removed by melting teh solder with a torch from teh
hardware store, and installing new shutoff taps with compression fittings.
No need to solder oor glue connections these days. All the fauwcettes in
the house now have P-traps and shutoff valves installed with compression
fittings.

Drains are funny. I used to rent out the house next door to a tennant.
The upstairs toilette was slow draining. I tried probing and
plunging but found nothing. Eventually had to remove the unit and found
nothing but a small metal button like a man's cuff link or something.
Frustrated, I reinstalled the unit. It worked fine after that.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
William R Watt National Capital FreeNet Ottawa's free community network
homepage: www.ncf.ca/~ag384/top.htm
warning: non-FreeNet email must have "notspam" in subject or it's returned

Roger Derby wrote:
I'm not a plumber, but my richest cousin is a plumbing contractor in
Chicago, and I've been fighting clogged drains for 45 years.

Bowgus has the right idea; replace the trap(s). Sooner or later you'll need
to open them up again. I wouldn't worry about the cleanout plug since most
traps assemble and disassemble easily (except the one from 1919 that I
tackled in Florida. It was soldered in). Put a bucket under the work area
of course.

As to the "long run" idea, note that she said it's a double sink vanity and
the other sink works fine.

Every tool box should have what I call my "skinny fingers." It's a
galvanized metal gadget with a hypodermic type handle on top, a flexible
shaft, and, at the working end, three spring steel fingers that slide in and
out of a 1/4" OD steel tube. About 12" long overall, it retrieves hair
balls, Legos and diamond rings from drains pretty well. You can usually
find them at the auto parts stores.

Roger

I have got such a device, remote finger grapple from the dollar
store. WIWIG (Worth it's weight in gold)
-TK



http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm

"Bowgus" wrote in message
...

Well .. here's a few thoughts ...


What could possibly plug up a bathroom sink drain that even 3 doses of
straight sulphuric acid can't dissolve??? And if sulphuric acid won't
dissolve it, what will, that won't also destroy the pipe (PVC, btw)???

Sulphuric acid ... yikes. First, check that you don't have a mess of hair
stuck in the strainer affair in the bottom of the sink. You can use needle
nose pliers to poke around there and pull up any that might be there. If
that's not the problem, try what's called a plunger :-) to clear the
p-trap. You have to hold a wet cloth over the overflow drain to do this
properly ... best done as a 2 person job. If that does not work, and
there's
no "cleanout" (that plug that unscrews from the bottom of the trap) in
the
p trap, then you might as well replace the trap with one that has one. I'm
sure you're familiar with abs and its installation. I'd just cut the old
drain at a convenient spot, and install a new trap.


Nothing has fallen into it...it's been gradually getting a little slower
for a while. It's not quite plugged completely...but drains so slowly
that the sink is all but unuseable.

Having said all that, if you have a long run from the sink to the main
waste
pipe, the problem could be there ... especially if there's no vent pipe
(that second pipe that allows air in to help with the draining). So if you
do replace the p trap, and there is a long run, maybe snake that run while
you're at it. But you know what ... I'm betting there's a big clog of hair
clinging to the bottom of the strainer in the basin :-).


I don't want to pay a plumbing $100 just to pour something else down the
drain that I can buy for $10. There has to be something that'll dissolve
the clog...but if sulphuric acid won't do it, what will???

I'm open to any ideas that won't dissolve the pipes too.


It's always Sum Bud Yeltse that drops a fingernail polish brush down
and "forgets" to mention it. Months later, things get slow...

I once used a yard blower to clear a plugged toilet my Dad left
behind after his latest visit. Wrapped a towel around the business
end and jammed it down the flush.

Rubber boots, wellies, shower cap, the whole bit. Yes, it spashed
up the walls, but not much. Opened up instantly, where the old coat
hangar couldn't reach. Doing it to the sink may mean you need to
stop up the sink's overflow drain, which would short circuit this
blowdown option. Is there a toilet using the same drain? If so,
air may come out of the toilet if the blockeag is downstream, but
you didn;t say the toilet was slow, right? If not, you probably
have a plug between the sink and the junction with the main toilet
drain which would be under the floor somewhere.

My kitchen sink is getting slower and slower too, It isn't bad once
it gets started, but it can take a while. The vent pipe on the roof
gets plugged with snow somtimes, and I wonder if that (vent
retricted) isn't the real problem. It may be worth the effort to get
up on the roof and use a chimney rod with a hook made from a coat
hangar to snag and pull up or to break up and push down any bird's
nests or leafy clogs that may have blocked the vent pipe.

Can you scope out the arrangement with vents and all?

If the p trap under the sink is plugged, cut it off, glue on a new
one, with a bottom drain on it. This presumes you don't have such a
cleanout drain, but I would expect that you have not been able to
unplug it via that route. Modern traps thread together, are
adjutable for angles, and slip off the tailstock, or bottom drain of
the sink with a compression gasket. It need never be more than hand
tight, if it is the right size is not damaged. It's sometimes better
to lifgt the sink, leaving the trap on the pipe end, depending on
what you have installed.

A mechanical joint might make the installation easier, if space is a
factor. MJ's are flexible and can solve a lot of problems.

Cutting the near horizontal exit pipe to replace the p trap will
enable you to easily insert a cheap wire wound snake with a little
hook on the end bent out which can sometimes snag and remove or
break up a plug, or just ream a new path through the sludge that may
have accumulated in the sloped drain. It depends on how tortuous the
run out is.

It's messy but rewarding work. When ever I get to do such a chore,
I consider the money I have saved over the price of a plumber, and
buy myself a lobster, or some other reward. It's very satisfying.

If the snake won't clean out the drain, it's time to consider
replacing the tortuous or too-near horizontal drain pipe. It may be
possible, in a straight run, to feed pipe in without tearing walls
out. If not, drastic alternatives may serve.

Cutting out a foot of drain at the junction with the main drain will
give you a chance to auger from the other end and closer to the
other possible cause, a curtain of sludge from upstairs. A piece of
pipe can be used to replace the missing foot, again using MJs. I
have used them underground, in plain sight and on boats, with great
satisfaction. One other drastic step is to feed 1/2" pipe inside
from the bottom, to break up a clog. A garden hose running water
could undermine such a plug. A plasic tube surrounding the bottom
pipe and garden hose would conduct the tailings into a washtub on
the ground under the location. Buckets would enable continuing the
process until a satisfactory solution occurs.

Hopefully, you might spot a few hairs hanging on the the grating in
the bottom of the sink, one or two hairs are strong enough to hold
a pretty good plug in place. I have a wire hook I use to rip out
such hairy gobs, and have had to so deal with shower drains in
particular for this problem. Who would think that a few hairs, some
bubbles, a fingernail, or even a bobby pin and a little chip of soap
could trap such an assortment of fluff?

Lye is the preferred drain cleaning agent, used regularly in
problematical drains. It may sequire plentiful application to open a
bad pipe, the big danger is splashing back in the eyes, just keep
putting it down. It won't hurt the pipes, unless they are metal, and
then, you would need a big bag of it. Lye generates heat, but I
doubt you could melt a plasic pipe without heroic attitude.

Lastly, a desperate ploy to prevent tearing out the walls: the
trusty yard blower, hooked on where you cut out a foot near the
junction. This calls for courage, a shower cap, protective goggles,
wellies, a raincoat, elbow length gloves of rubber (ooh! how kinky!)
painter's plasic film protecting the washroom, ceiling, walls,
floor and all, and a roll of duct tape. Before turning on the yard
blower for it's first 30 second burst, hold a metal garbage can lid
near the open end of the pipe, where you cut off the p trap under
the sink. A wash tub or garbage can will probably hold all that may
be expelled in such an unfortunate instance.

The presence of a vent will defeat this plan, unless you plug up the
vent from the roofside, but if may serve several drains, and each
could regurgitate. It's worth a try.

It's only pipes and goo! Yes, Peggie, I am a real household plumber,
unlicensed, uncertificated, not a plumber's union member. I seldom
get paid, but what a reputation I have amongst my relatives! If it
sounds unpleasant, how much would you pay to avoid such a dance?

Think of the fun in the shower afterwards, oh intrepid stentor!

Two weeks ago I had a stent put in my liver / pancreatic duct by
oral endoscope! It happened about 18 hours after I showed up at my
doctor's office. An amazing device, the endoscope.

Jaundice was the clue. Canada Health payed.

Terry K

Bowgus wrote:
Sulphuric acid ... yikes. First, check that you don't have a mess of hair
stuck in the strainer affair in the bottom of the sink.

No strainer in the bottom of the sink (I wish it were that simple!).
I've removed the stopper assembly--the kind that has a plunger tapped
into the discharge pipe that moves it up and down--and I've poked around
the trap with a knitting needle to see if anything is in it. There
isn't... drain is completely open all the way to the bottom of the trap.
Since I haven't been willing to break the joints to remove the trap yet,
I dunno how far past there the blockage is.

If
that's not the problem, try what's called a plunger :-) to clear the
p-trap. You have to hold a wet cloth over the overflow drain...

My bathroom basins don't have one...something that originally led me to
wonder if lack of venting might be the problem. But I've been able to
rule that out.

If that does not work, and there's
no "cleanout" (that plug that unscrews from the bottom of the trap) in the
p trap, then you might as well replace the trap with one that has one.

There isn't one. I was flabbergasted to find that there's no access into
the trap to get anything out of it. In the days when I wore hard
contact lenses, I dropped so many of 'em down the drain I got to be an
expert at getting 'em back!


I'm
sure you're familiar with abs and its installation. I'd just cut the old
drain at a convenient spot, and install a new trap.

Oh yeah...and I will. It's just a PITA job that'll probly end requiring
me to replace a piece I hadn't planned to replace 'cuz I'll probl'ly
crack it getting the parts I wanted to replace off.

Calling a plumber may not be such a bad idea after all...'cuz I'm
starting to remind myself of an old joke:

Repair prices:

If you call us first: $25
If you watch us work: $50
If you try to help: $75
If you tried to fix it yourself before calling us: $150

--
Peggie
----------
Peggie Hall
Specializing in marine sanitation since 1987
Author "Get Rid of Boat Odors - A Guide To Marine Sanitation Systems and
Other Sources of Aggravation and Odor"
http://www.seaworthy.com/store/custo...0&cat=6&page=1
http://shop.sailboatowners.com/detai...=400&group=327

I'm
sure you're familiar with abs and its installation. I'd just cut the old
drain at a convenient spot, and install a new trap.

Oh yeah...and I will. It's just a PITA job that'll probly end requiring
me to replace a piece I hadn't planned to replace 'cuz I'll probl'ly
crack it getting the parts I wanted to replace off.

I just replaced a p trap in the old side of the house upstairs bathroom a
few months ago ... I cut the old drain (vertical section near the floor) and
installed the p trap ... compression fit to the basin tailpiece, length of
abs
from the trap to the connector, and connector to the old abs drain. Took
less than an hour ... I'm the type that (usually) measures 4 times, cuts
once, assembles and checks the fit 1 once, and installs once ... and the
cost was maybe $5 or so ... but since I'm in the refurbish mode with my
current house (geez ... will I ever "settle down"), I had a few parts in the
"plumbing box", so all I needed to go get was the trap.

Peggie wrote:
originally led me to
wonder if lack of venting might be the problem. But I've been able to
rule that out.

My most baffling drain problem ever was finally resolved by climbing
onto the roof and running a snake down the vent. Seems some
inconsiderate critter had chosen that location to build a nest.
(I thought I'd ruled it out too).

PhantMan