There are some low viscosity epoxy products on the market that claim to
restore rotten wood. A few of them do restore the compression strength but
do not help the bending strength. They are great for salvaging antique
porch columns, thresholds and window sills but totally useless for boat
repair where the stresses are not all in compression.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"MarshallE" wrote in message
om...
Hi,

I have been reading about a process of restoring rotten wood by soaking
resin into the wood making it as good as new or better.

Are there other options for replacing rotten ribs and frames other than
traditional sawed or steam bent? (from the inside)

Is there any truth to this process or just more smoke and mirrors?

Thanks for the help on this question and the earlier one about boat
repairs.

Marshall

On Sat, 8 Oct 2005 22:25:12 -0400, "Glenn Ashmore"
wrote:

There are some low viscosity epoxy products on the market that claim to
restore rotten wood. A few of them do restore the compression strength but
do not help the bending strength. They are great for salvaging antique
porch columns, thresholds and window sills but totally useless for boat
repair where the stresses are not all in compression.

yep.

Let's put that solution in the smoke and mirrors column.

"P.C. Ford" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 8 Oct 2005 22:25:12 -0400, "Glenn Ashmore"
wrote:

There are some low viscosity epoxy products on the market that claim to
restore rotten wood. A few of them do restore the compression strength
but
do not help the bending strength. They are great for salvaging antique
porch columns, thresholds and window sills but totally useless for boat
repair where the stresses are not all in compression.

yep.

Let's put that solution in the smoke and mirrors column.

Hmmm.... I guess it must be different for working people. I've known
several boat yard operators and pile drivers who use this method (for their
own boats). Actually, the most common way is to use regular epoxy resin and
thin it with acetone to the right consistency. I know of a couple rib
repairs that are about 25 years old and still in place.

Ed

"Ed Edelenbos" wrote

Hmmm.... I guess it must be different for working people. I've known
several boat yard operators and pile drivers who use this method (for
their own boats). Actually, the most common way is to use regular epoxy
resin and thin it with acetone to the right consistency. I know of a
couple rib repairs that are about 25 years old and still in place.


Well, I am making observations from experience. The family company manages
a number (like over 1,000) older single family and duplex rentals, many of
which have wood porches. We use a variety of epoxies to restore rotten
porch columns where the local Historic Preservation committee insists that
restoration match the original. We have found that it works fine for trim
and column bases but will not hold up on railings, floor planks and other
parts than may be loaded in bending.

Epoxy stabilizes the wood and prevents further rotting but it has much lower
tensile strength than the wood and is considerably less resiliant. Unless
the part is reinforced with carefully aligned glass fiber it will not be up
to the task.

--
Glenn Ashmore

I'm building a 45' cutter in strip/composite. Watch my progress (or lack
there of) at: http://www.rutuonline.com
Shameless Commercial Division: http://www.spade-anchor-us.com

"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:KJ82f.215$Kp4.88@lakeread08...


"Ed Edelenbos" wrote

Hmmm.... I guess it must be different for working people. I've known
several boat yard operators and pile drivers who use this method (for
their own boats). Actually, the most common way is to use regular epoxy
resin and thin it with acetone to the right consistency. I know of a
couple rib repairs that are about 25 years old and still in place.


Well, I am making observations from experience. The family company
manages a number (like over 1,000) older single family and duplex rentals,
many of which have wood porches. We use a variety of epoxies to restore
rotten porch columns where the local Historic Preservation committee
insists that restoration match the original. We have found that it works
fine for trim and column bases but will not hold up on railings, floor
planks and other parts than may be loaded in bending.

Epoxy stabilizes the wood and prevents further rotting but it has much
lower tensile strength than the wood and is considerably less resiliant.
Unless the part is reinforced with carefully aligned glass fiber it will
not be up to the task.

--
Glenn Ashmore

Our experiential data conflicts. In the end, we'll each go with what works
for us... probably with equal confidence. Your last statement above is
nonsense in the real world though. It looks nice in type.

Ed

On Sun, 9 Oct 2005 10:11:19 -0400, "Ed Edelenbos"
wrote:

"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:KJ82f.215$Kp4.88@lakeread08...


"Ed Edelenbos" wrote

Hmmm.... I guess it must be different for working people. I've known
several boat yard operators and pile drivers who use this method (for
their own boats). Actually, the most common way is to use regular epoxy
resin and thin it with acetone to the right consistency. I know of a
couple rib repairs that are about 25 years old and still in place.


Well, I am making observations from experience. The family company
manages a number (like over 1,000) older single family and duplex rentals,
many of which have wood porches. We use a variety of epoxies to restore
rotten porch columns where the local Historic Preservation committee
insists that restoration match the original. We have found that it works
fine for trim and column bases but will not hold up on railings, floor
planks and other parts than may be loaded in bending.

Epoxy stabilizes the wood and prevents further rotting but it has much
lower tensile strength than the wood and is considerably less resiliant.
Unless the part is reinforced with carefully aligned glass fiber it will
not be up to the task.

--
Glenn Ashmore

Our experiential data conflicts. In the end, we'll each go with what works
for us... probably with equal confidence. Your last statement above is
nonsense in the real world though. It looks nice in type.

Huh? If you have any proof whatsoever that epoxy treated rotten wood
regains strength please share it. This certainly goes against 30 years
of experience as a boatwright spcializing in restoration.

We'll wait right here.

"P.C. Ford" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 9 Oct 2005 10:11:19 -0400, "Ed Edelenbos"
wrote:

"Glenn Ashmore" wrote in message
news:KJ82f.215$Kp4.88@lakeread08...


"Ed Edelenbos" wrote

Hmmm.... I guess it must be different for working people. I've known
several boat yard operators and pile drivers who use this method (for
their own boats). Actually, the most common way is to use regular
epoxy
resin and thin it with acetone to the right consistency. I know of a
couple rib repairs that are about 25 years old and still in place.


Well, I am making observations from experience. The family company
manages a number (like over 1,000) older single family and duplex
rentals,
many of which have wood porches. We use a variety of epoxies to restore
rotten porch columns where the local Historic Preservation committee
insists that restoration match the original. We have found that it
works
fine for trim and column bases but will not hold up on railings, floor
planks and other parts than may be loaded in bending.

Epoxy stabilizes the wood and prevents further rotting but it has much
lower tensile strength than the wood and is considerably less resiliant.
Unless the part is reinforced with carefully aligned glass fiber it will
not be up to the task.

--
Glenn Ashmore

Our experiential data conflicts. In the end, we'll each go with what
works
for us... probably with equal confidence. Your last statement above is
nonsense in the real world though. It looks nice in type.

Huh? If you have any proof whatsoever that epoxy treated rotten wood
regains strength please share it. This certainly goes against 30 years
of experience as a boatwright spcializing in restoration.

We'll wait right here.


Whadya want? Names and adresses so you can go check? The statement "Unless
the part is reinforced with carefully aligned glass fiber it will not be up
to the task." is a stupid statement to make. What task? I know repairs
that are 25 years old which are still up to the task... They are in various
places where it is crucial and the repairs hold up even under the harshest
weather and water conditions. I still say the statement is rediculous.
Sheesh... boatwright? Do you ever take those boats out? Do you have any
experience on the water?

Ed

P.C. Ford ) writes:

Huh? If you have any proof whatsoever that epoxy treated rotten wood
regains strength please share it. This certainly goes against 30 years
of experience as a boatwright spcializing in restoration.

We'll wait right here.


PC Ford has 30 years of experience with resins?
Shocking! Is nothing sacred?


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"Ed Edelenbos" wrote
Hmmm.... I guess it must be different for working people. I've known
several boat yard operators and pile drivers who use this method (for
their own boats). Actually, the most common way is to use regular epoxy
resin and thin it with acetone to the right consistency. I know of a
couple rib repairs that are about 25 years old and still in place.


It depends very much on what the original structure was like (ie massive
workboat construction or slender scantling yacht type); and what stress
it's put under.

From an engineering standpoint, Glenn's comments are 100% accurate.
Epoxy saturation restores much of the strength in compression of the
original wood, some of the shear strangth, and very littl of the
strength in tension (which is wood's strongest point).



Glenn Ashmore wrote:
Epoxy stabilizes the wood and prevents further rotting

Note- in the original part... it does little or nothing to stop leaks
and prevent further rot around the margins of the saturated area!

.... but it has much lower
tensile strength than the wood and is considerably less resiliant. Unless
the part is reinforced with carefully aligned glass fiber it will not be up
to the task.


This correspnds exactly with my experience. I've seen mooring cleats
pull up out of rot-doctored decks which were hard as a rock from the epoxy.

When fresh out of the military and needing something to do, a friend and
I "restored" (or butchered, depending on who you talk to) an old classic
racing yacht. The planking was sound but the structure and deck was
spongy. We built a 6 point cradle with shaped frames, epoxy saturated
much of the interior structure, and laid up an internal truss mimicking
the original ribs & floors with some diagonals added. The boat had no
stiffness or strength in the hull until we added fiberglass cloth along
the truss members. After that, it was very strong & we raced the heck
out of it.

A few classic boat purists were upset at what we'd done, two or three
even threatened us. But the boat would have become a mulch pile and we
did this work in about 3 months instead of seven years to rebuild it the
"right" way.

YMMV

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

"DSK" wrote in message
...
"Ed Edelenbos" wrote
Hmmm.... I guess it must be different for working people. I've known
several boat yard operators and pile drivers who use this method (for
their own boats). Actually, the most common way is to use regular epoxy
resin and thin it with acetone to the right consistency. I know of a
couple rib repairs that are about 25 years old and still in place.


It depends very much on what the original structure was like (ie massive
workboat construction or slender scantling yacht type); and what stress
it's put under.


This is exactly what I said... it depends on the task. For the statement
"Unless the part is reinforced with carefully aligned glass fiber it will
not be up to the task." to be made, it assumes that either it is unsuitable
for ANY task, or that ALL tasks are the same. Neither of these assumptions
are correct.

I'll stand by what I said... it is a rediculous assertion.

Ed