Backyard Renegade wrote:

Terry Spragg wrote in message ...
Mark wrote:

Hello,

I am in the throws of deciding on a sailing cruiser to build and
perhaps more importantly which method of construction that I plan to
use prior to ordering plans.

Currently my preferences are either stitch and glue (as I have done
this before) or cedar strip (which looks like an interesting
challenge), but recently I have been looking at the
http://www.glen-l.com/ website where many of their plans require the
craft to be built from Fiberglass planking. So as to consider this
method of construction is anyone aware of suppliers of such planking
in the UK?

Many thanks,
Mark

Usually fabricated in situ, I believe,

As I recall, a frame kit, some c-flex foam tacked on and some
delightful glass-fibre woven material, like fireproof drapes, and
catalyzed polyester resin slopped on can easily become a
'fiberglass panel' boat.

If you useed planks or cut up pieces of plywood instead, you
would have a more traditional wooden boat, no?

Or do you expect to buy sheets of cured fiberglass like plywood,
to be cut to shape or precut shaped panels, and stuck together,
with glue of some sort, like double sided tape or velcro, maybe
nails? Screws are such a bother.

If, after glassing the outside, you glass the inside too, you
would have a foam sandwich construction with floatation core, and
would need to incorperate some connection system to bind the 2
layers of glass together, unless you trust it to adhere strongly
to the foam while sloughing off 10 tons of lumpy seawater while
the loose elephant cargo below makes a break for Freedom and
Africa?

Dream on.


Sounds to me like you are being sarcastic here, forgive me if I miss.
But if you are mocking this type of "dream" building it is being done
all the time and for some time now. Of course I don't usually carry
elephants around in the bilge, but you never know... maybe pink
ones...
Scotty

Oh, well, I was having a bit of fun, but...

Some foam is good as structure, some is so scored for flexing
purposes, that it is not, IMHO. I believe that c-flex (AKA
"fiberglass planking" among some) is intended to be torn out
after serving as shape form. It is not intended to be used a
structural ingredient.

The real point, fiberglass panels are built in situ, not
purchased as structural material, seems to be adrift amongst the
angst.

C-flex is a temporary form material, only.

--
Terry K - My email address is MY PROPERTY, and is protected by
copyright legislation. Permission to reproduce it is
specifically denied for mass mailing and unrequested
solicitations. Reproduction or conveyance for any unauthorised
purpose is THEFT and PLAGIARISM. Abuse is Invasion of privacy
and harassment. Abusers may be prosecuted. -This notice footer
released to public domain. Spamspoof salad by spamchock -
SofDevCo

Terry says:

C-flex is a temporary form material, only.


Bzzztttttt!!!!!!

Nope - it was developed, and has been used for years, as a structural material.

I don't _like_ the stuff, but there it is.
C-Flex boats always finished up overweight, because most were built on male
forms, and no thought was given to the weight of fairing compound required ;-(

Steve
Stephen C. Baker - Yacht Designer
http://members.aol.com/SailDesign/pr...cbweb/home.htm

Once again... I'd suggest you research the material before you make
comments. You may believe it, but the data doesn't support your beliefs.

Ed

Terry Spragg wrote:

Some foam is good as structure, some is so scored for flexing
purposes, that it is not, IMHO. I believe that c-flex (AKA
"fiberglass planking" among some) is intended to be torn out
after serving as shape form. It is not intended to be used a
structural ingredient.

The real point, fiberglass panels are built in situ, not
purchased as structural material, seems to be adrift amongst the
angst.

C-flex is a temporary form material, only.

Stephen Baker wrote:

Terry says:

C-flex is a temporary form material, only.


Bzzztttttt!!!!!!

Nope - it was developed, and has been used for years, as a structural material.

I don't _like_ the stuff, but there it is.
C-Flex boats always finished up overweight, because most were built on male
forms, and no thought was given to the weight of fairing compound required ;-(

Steve

Well, if you say so. I am only recalling, possibly erroneously,
what I seem to remember reading 20 or so years ago.

Just think, now I must retrace all the 'facts' built up on that
fallacy ever since.

I am still somewhat doubtful, you will understand, because I have
not seen substantive corroborration, but my mind is always open
to new knowlege. Perhaps you have a source for this revelation?

Calling c-flex panels 'fiberglass panels' still seems foreign to
me.
--
Terry K - My email address is MY PROPERTY, and is protected by
copyright legislation. Permission to reproduce it is
specifically denied for mass mailing and unrequested
solicitations. Reproduction or conveyance for any unauthorised
purpose is THEFT and PLAGIARISM. Abuse is Invasion of privacy
and harassment. Abusers may be prosecuted. -This notice footer
released to public domain. Spamspoof salad by spamchock -
SofDevCo

Terry says:

Well, if you say so. I am only recalling, possibly erroneously,
what I seem to remember reading 20 or so years ago.

Perhaps you have a source for this revelation?


In 1979, I was in college in Southampton (UK) studying design. We used to be
sent out to look at various boats being built in the area that were of
"interest" to the course material. I saw at least 6 boats being built with
C-Flex in the first half of that year. One of them belonged to my brother.

Calling c-flex panels 'fiberglass panels' still seems foreign to
me.

Well, you're not alone there ;-))

Steve
Stephen C. Baker - Yacht Designer
http://members.aol.com/SailDesign/pr...cbweb/home.htm

I have seen a number of boats built in C-Flex, seen demonstrations by
Seamann and it is 100% certain that the glass rods stay in the hull.
And yes, the boats are heavy.


--
Jacques
http://www.bateau.com

"Terry Spragg" wrote in message
...


Stephen Baker wrote:

Terry says:

C-flex is a temporary form material, only.


Bzzztttttt!!!!!!

Nope - it was developed, and has been used for years, as a structural
material.

I don't _like_ the stuff, but there it is.
C-Flex boats always finished up overweight, because most were built on
male
forms, and no thought was given to the weight of fairing compound
required ;-(

Steve

Well, if you say so. I am only recalling, possibly erroneously,
what I seem to remember reading 20 or so years ago.

Just think, now I must retrace all the 'facts' built up on that
fallacy ever since.

I am still somewhat doubtful, you will understand, because I have
not seen substantive corroborration, but my mind is always open
to new knowlege. Perhaps you have a source for this revelation?

Calling c-flex panels 'fiberglass panels' still seems foreign to
me.
--
Terry K - My email address is MY PROPERTY, and is protected by
copyright legislation. Permission to reproduce it is
specifically denied for mass mailing and unrequested
solicitations. Reproduction or conveyance for any unauthorised
purpose is THEFT and PLAGIARISM. Abuse is Invasion of privacy
and harassment. Abusers may be prosecuted. -This notice footer
released to public domain. Spamspoof salad by spamchock -
SofDevCo

Hi

"Ed Edelenbos" skrev i en meddelelse
...
Once again... I'd suggest you research the material before you make
comments. You may believe it, but the data doesn't support your beliefs.

Ed

Terry Spragg wrote:

Some foam is good as structure, some is so scored for flexing
purposes, that it is not, IMHO. I believe that c-flex (AKA
"fiberglass planking" among some) is intended to be torn out
after serving as shape form. It is not intended to be used a
structural ingredient.

Right , maby they are and maby there are several different way's to produce a
glasfiber boat . But if you don't want to spend your time sanding and filling ,
sanding and filling, sanding and filling, ------ and then spend a lot of money
on special paint and coatings and then sand and paint with expensive paint,
then you could consider to find panels with one side ready and place that side
as the outside.
Several workshops acturly produce glasfiber laminate for different porpus, like
sthe sides of huge trucks or camping wagons , what do you think they are made
of.
Well years ago I found a factory in denmark , that was glad to sell the truck
side panels they produced for their own trucks, and this was 2 millimeter
glasfiber/polyester with white gelcoat. The glasfiber and polyester they used
was that used producing boats, and then you still want to panel with somthing
you need to sand and fill , paint and spend months to create the very same
surface, that you can buy for round 20 pound pr. sq. meter, to be cut directly
from full-scale plans as with the Cyber-Boat concept that was interduced before
anyone else.
What take time is the sanding and making a nice finish ; with ready made
glasfiber panels you can sand the back side and continue from the inside of the
hull with more glasfiber and resin, or you can use the panels as forms in a
reliable building jig .
Check the antike Cyber-Boat site where you among the links, can find designs
with this idear ;
http://w1.1396.telia.com/~u139600113/

Othervise there are a lot of glasfiber boats with wooden timbers, where the
glasfiber just form the skin, here the 3D-Honeycomb method develobed with the
Cyber-Boat concept can also be used providing a frame set with no trouble .

Ask yourself why to spend your money and time , sanding and painting with
expensive filler that you anyway remove 3/4 of, to get the exact same nice
surface, as when you simply find ready made panels with one nice side.

P.C.

"P.C." wrote in message news:3f68295f$0$54850 Right
, maby they are and maby there are several different way's to produce a
glasfiber boat . But if you don't want to spend your time sanding and
filling ,
sanding and filling, sanding and filling, ------ and then spend a lot of
money
on special paint and coatings and then sand and paint with expensive
paint,
then you could consider to find panels with one side ready and place that
side
as the outside.
Several workshops acturly produce glasfiber laminate for different porpus,
like
sthe sides of huge trucks or camping wagons , what do you think they are
made
of.
Well years ago I found a factory in denmark , that was glad to sell the
truck
side panels they produced for their own trucks, and this was 2 millimeter
glasfiber/polyester with white gelcoat. The glasfiber and polyester they
used
was that used producing boats, and then you still want to panel with
somthing
you need to sand and fill , paint and spend months to create the very same
surface, that you can buy for round 20 pound pr. sq. meter, to be cut
directly
from full-scale plans as with the Cyber-Boat concept that was interduced
before
anyone else.
What take time is the sanding and making a nice finish ; with ready made
glasfiber panels you can sand the back side and continue from the inside
of the
hull with more glasfiber and resin, or you can use the panels as forms in
a
reliable building jig .
Check the antike Cyber-Boat site where you among the links, can find
designs
with this idear ;
http://w1.1396.telia.com/~u139600113/

Othervise there are a lot of glasfiber boats with wooden timbers, where
the
glasfiber just form the skin, here the 3D-Honeycomb method develobed with
the
Cyber-Boat concept can also be used providing a frame set with no trouble
..

Ask yourself why to spend your money and time , sanding and painting with
expensive filler that you anyway remove 3/4 of, to get the exact same nice
surface, as when you simply find ready made panels with one nice side.

P.C.


Hi,

Interesting concept. Having worked quite a bit with fiberglass (only on
fiberglass cars though), I'd be concerned that bending panels that are
manufactured to be flat would cause stressing of the fiberglass and gelcoat
causing cracks.

That said, it is something that I would consider.

Has anyone else used this technique (or know of manufacturers in the UK that
produce such products)?

Thanks,
Mark

"Terry Spragg" wrote in message
...
Well, if you say so. I am only recalling, possibly erroneously,
what I seem to remember reading 20 or so years ago.

Just think, now I must retrace all the 'facts' built up on that
fallacy ever since.

I am still somewhat doubtful, you will understand, because I have
not seen substantive corroborration, but my mind is always open
to new knowlege. Perhaps you have a source for this revelation?

Calling c-flex panels 'fiberglass panels' still seems foreign to
me.
--

Hi Terry,

C-Flex is described quite well at
http://www.topsail.co.uk/bruce_rober...fibreglass.htm - where they
state that weight can actually be saved over conventional glass laminate.

I'm interested in the concept, but will probably go for foam sandwich
instead as I can't find a supplier in the UK to discuss this with.

The term panels in my original post was a mistake (too much wine!), but the
body of the post correctly call them panels as per the manufacturer.

Cheers,
Mark

"Mark Pate" wrote in message
...

The term panels in my original post was a mistake (too much wine!), but
the
body of the post correctly call them panels as per the manufacturer.

There you go - I must stop drinking........ "call them PLANKS as per the
manufacturer"