I notice the green boat in the picture has oar locks - may be a row boat
rather than a canoe?

--
Gary Wright
Springfield, MO
_________________________________

In article ,
(Funjumper101) wrote:

Hello,

I am trying to find some plans for a boat similar to an Old Town
Square Stern canoe.

There are pictures at

http://www.aomci.org/gallery/images/LeeNH2.jpg

and

http://www.aomci.org/gallery/images/LeeNH5.jpg

The boat is the green one at the dock in the first picture.

A friend of mine's family has one on Big Sebago Lake in Maine.
Unfortunately the boat is now deteriorating in a barn. The boat was
restored and fiberglassed in the mid eighties. It was used for several
years, then taken out of service. I would like to build one if I can
get the plans.

Just out of curiousity, how much would an original one in restorable
condition be worth?

Thanks for the advice.

Roy T.

There are plans in this book for the" laker". I believe its a square stern.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...glance&s=books
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0899333494/qid=1058900027/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-6168574-5348026?v=glance&s=books
Funjumper101 wrote:

Hello,

I am trying to find some plans for a boat similar to an Old Town
Square Stern canoe.

There are pictures at

http://www.aomci.org/gallery/images/LeeNH2.jpg

and

http://www.aomci.org/gallery/images/LeeNH5.jpg

The boat is the green one at the dock in the first picture.

A friend of mine's family has one on Big Sebago Lake in Maine.
Unfortunately the boat is now deteriorating in a barn. The boat was
restored and fiberglassed in the mid eighties. It was used for several
years, then taken out of service. I would like to build one if I can
get the plans.

Just out of curiousity, how much would an original one in restorable
condition be worth?

Thanks for the advice.

Roy T.

Ummm. I think you've confused Gilpatrick's plans for "laker" canoes
with those of the "Grand Laker" which is a 19' square-stern. Gilpatrick
provides one set of "plans" for a Grand Laker but I'm not sure which
edition it is in. I do agree with your comments on the shop photos.
Anyone building a stripper per Gilpatrick might also be advised to
reference a book like "Canoecraft" as well. it used to be that forms
plans for Gilpatrick's designs were available from DeLorme (the Maine
map makers). Don't know if this is still so or not.

Gary Wright wrote:

In my first edition, there is a photo of a 13 ft Laker, but no photo of a
finished 16 ft Laker which is what the plans in the book are for - so it is
not immediately clear if the plans are for a double ender or square stern.
However the plans have 9 stations spaced at 18 inches snip....

In the late '80s I built a 19' Grand Laker square-stern to Gilpatrick's
plans. He did issue a caveat that they were not "his plans" but that he
was simply supplying them for those interested. The resulting boat was
mostly wonderful (it was based on molds, I believe, from some of the
original Grand Laker square sterns) but it did have some problem with
oil-canning -- which I solved by putting in compression struts between
the thwarts and keelson. Given modern (and heavier) 4 stroke outboards
and given the American propensity towards heavier passengers, I'd
redesign such a square stern canoe today for more buoyancy/bearing aft
and would take some of the flatness out of the bottom. These are neat
boats.

- paul

The boat in the picture is a skiff, not a canoe. Look at the "Rice Lake"
at www.bearmountainboats.com

Funjumper101 wrote:

Hello,

I am trying to find some plans for a boat similar to an Old Town
Square Stern canoe.

There are pictures at

http://www.aomci.org/gallery/images/LeeNH2.jpg

and

http://www.aomci.org/gallery/images/LeeNH5.jpg

The boat is the green one at the dock in the first picture.

A friend of mine's family has one on Big Sebago Lake in Maine.
Unfortunately the boat is now deteriorating in a barn. The boat was
restored and fiberglassed in the mid eighties. It was used for several
years, then taken out of service. I would like to build one if I can
get the plans.

Just out of curiousity, how much would an original one in restorable
condition be worth?

Thanks for the advice.

Roy T.

Thanks for the advice. My brother built two of the canoes at the same
time from this book. They were almost complete when I saw them. I had
a copy of Ted Moores Canoecraft that I had read cover to cover. I was
less than impressed with the lines and the butt joints were really
obvious under the epoxy. I had brought with me my copy of CanoeCraft
and I ended up giving it to him. According to what he tells me the
canoes are OK but a bit heavy.

I haven't built a boat yet. I suspect that I should build a canoe and
learn some skills. A square stern is a likely next project. I aspire
to the quality that Gary achieves. I am accumulating tools and
preparing space in the garage for the project.

The boat at my friend's place was sweet... fast and agile with a four
horse outboard. The bow was really sharp and cut right through the
waves with a really smooth ride. It would carry quite a bit of weight
without much loss of performance. Sebago gets quite rough at times.
This boat handled it really well.

If I lived on the East COast I would go and measure the hull. Next
time I get out there I probably will.


"Gary Wright" wrote in message news:FtmTa.121492$Ph3.15592@sccrnsc04...
I shouldn't comment on the book shown at this link -'Building a Strip Canoe'
by Gil Gilpatrick - because I haven't read this revised edition. I DO
however own the first edition of this book - and I never let lack of facts
get in the way of forming an opinion.

In my first edition, there is a photo of a 13 ft Laker, but no photo of a
finished 16 ft Laker which is what the plans in the book are for - so it is
not immediately clear if the plans are for a double ender or square stern.
However the plans have 9 stations spaced at 18 inches and the stem spacing
is specified as 24 in. Adding (8x18)+(2x24) and dividing by 12 equals 16 ft,
so I believe he intended two stems rather than a square stern.

IMHO the book could be much better and I am hoping the second edition has
been much revised. The illustrations of a shop class building a boat do not
inspire the reader to strive for great, or even good, craftsmanship.

One example: Gilpatrick encourages the use of simple butt joints to join two
strips which are too short to run the full length of the canoe. If you can't
get your hands on full length strips, it's really not that much trouble to
make a scarf joint; the resulting plank will be less likely to leave an
unfair transition between the two planks as well as much better from an
engineering point of view.

To my eye, many of the boats pictured in the book (1st ed.) don't look quite
right. I don't mean the craftsmanship, but the shapes and lines. Maybe it's
just bad photography, but several of the boats look 'funny' - not graceful.
The method given in the chapter 'Other Design' for modifying plans will
probably work OK for an experienced builder with a good eye, but following
this method without great caution could easily result in something ugly and
mishapen which is what I fear may have happened to some of his plans.

Based on the photos of the finished boats in the 1st edition, I was afraid
to invest the time and money on questionable plans - might be better to go
to some of the plans from Bear Mountain (http://www.bearmountainboats.com/)
or Newfound Woodworks (http://www.newfound.com/index.htm) although there are
no plans at either site for a square stern like Roy T wants.

--
Gary Wright
Springfield, MO

As of this writing I live on the Central Coast of California near SLO.
If I could get up to Maine I would go measure the original. I like the
idea of using the original as a mould. If you look closely at the
pictures the hull would have to be moulded in two sections and joined.
It would be quite a challenge to get the original home... ;-)

Thanks,

Roy T.

(William R. Watt) wrote in message ...
you can take measurements from the exsisting one or use it as a mould
for a fibreglass copy.

Funjumper101 ) writes:
Hello,

I am trying to find some plans for a boat similar to an Old Town
Square Stern canoe.

In article , "Paul R. LaBrie"
wrote:

Ummm. I think you've confused Gilpatrick's plans for "laker" canoes
with those of the "Grand Laker" which is a 19' square-stern. snip

I wasn't aware Gilpatrick offered plans the Grand Laker - if they can be
found this should make Roy T. (funjumper101) very happy. Plans for a 19 ft
square stern are NOT to be found in the 1st edition of Gilpatrick's book.
-GW

In the late '80s I built a 19' Grand Laker square-stern to Gilpatrick's
plans. He did issue a caveat that they were not "his plans" but that he
was simply supplying them for those interested.

A wonderful article in Wooden Boat #121, (and, apparently also appearing in
the May 1994 issue of 'Field and Stream'), gives credit to one Herb 'Beaver'
Baker as building the first Grand Laker in the 1920s. The canoe's name comes
from Grand Lake Stream in eastern Maine, and, as of the time of the article
(early-mid 1990s?), there were still one or two natives of that area
building variations of Beaver Baker's design. The way these things go, I
doubt any of them ever had a set of plans, but it might be worth checking
into if Gilpatrick's plans cannot be found. -GW

The resulting boat was
mostly wonderful (it was based on molds, I believe, from some of the
original Grand Laker square sterns) but it did have some problem with
oil-canning -- which I solved by putting in compression struts between
the thwarts and keelson. Given modern (and heavier) 4 stroke outboards
and given the American propensity towards heavier passengers, I'd
redesign such a square stern canoe today for more buoyancy/bearing aft
and would take some of the flatness out of the bottom. These are neat
boats.

- paul

Another solution to the oil canning problem which might be easier than
re-doing the plans would be to increase the thickness of your strips. My
seat of the pants guesstimate would be that a boat of this size should use
cedar strips at least 3/8 inches in thickness, maybe more.

The bottom of the boat could also be stripped using an inherently stiffer
wood such as basswood or yellow poplar - both of which which have a modulus
of elasticity about 50% greater than western red cedar - they also weigh
more, but not 50% more. I think we can forget about putting a 20 ft square
stern up on the roof rack by yourself no matter how you build it. The
wood-canvas versions are reported to weigh 160 lbs. I believe you can beat
that in cedar strip, but perhaps not by a significant amount.

--
Gary Wright
Springfield, MO
_________________________________

In article ,
(Funjumper101) wrote:

Thanks for the advice. My brother built two of the canoes at the same
time from this book. They were almost complete when I saw them. I had
a copy of Ted Moores Canoecraft that I had read cover to cover. I was
less than impressed with the lines and the butt joints were really
obvious under the epoxy. I had brought with me my copy of CanoeCraft
and I ended up giving it to him. According to what he tells me the
canoes are OK but a bit heavy.

Boy is my face red. After I preached about how Ted Moores' book Canoecraft
promotes better craftsmanship than Gilpatrick's 1st book, an arguement I
supported by pointing at Gilpatrick's butt joined strips, I was flipping
through my old edition of Canoecraft, and what do I see on page 98 - Ted
Moores glueing up a butt joint! Oops.

Well, I don't care how the others do it. I'm still going to try to find full
length material first, and if that fails, I'll scarf my planks. So there.

-GW