Actually, they can get a bit more acerbic than that; e.g. "We don't like the
Powerwinch's freefall system because of its uncontrolled release, and this
windlass's performance was average."

Roger

http://home.earthlink.net/~derbyrm

"DSK" wrote in message
...
Practical Sailor mag just did a writeup and test on the smaller
windlasses.

Larry wrote:
Does it say "This windlass sucks! Don't buy this awful product!", or
does it say what boat magazines always say that every advertiser's, or
potential advertiser's products are just wonderful and you can't live
without them?

Practical Sailor doesn't carry advertising.

Their tests aren't always definitive, but it looks to me like they do try
to objectively evaluate the gear they test. And they wouldn't say "This
windlass sucks" they'd just give it a lower rating.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

On Tue, 09 Aug 2005, Larry wrote:

Practical Sailor mag just did a writeup and test
on the smaller windlasses. The October issue
will have tests on the mid-range windlasses.

Does it say "This windlass sucks! Don't buy this awful
product!", or does it say what boat magazines always say
that every advertiser's, or potential advertiser's products
are just wonderful and you can't live without them?

"Practical Sailor" discloses how it designs and does the tests it
performs and, when relevant, where and in what conditions it carries
out the tests. If/when its testing is not rigorously scientific (as
many in a variable marine environment cannot cost-effectively be), it
also so says. And, at least as far as a reasonably inquisitive reader
can tell (there is always at least a conjectural possibility of undue
influence for any activity/publication), its publishers and editors
are not influenced by what its advertisers or potential advertisers
may complain because it doesn't take and there are not any evident
plans that it ever will take and publish adverting.

In article , Larry
wrote:

" wrote in
oups.com:

Have you ever looked at a "Practical Sailor?"

I'll take a look. I normally don't look at boat rags because they look
like sales brochures. You can hardly tell the "articles" from the
advertising in them. Just once I'd like to see one of them say,

"BAYLINER SUCKS!"

If Bayliner made a sailboat, they might ;-)

It's an expensive mag because there's no advertising, but I've saved far
more than its cost by not buying things that wouldn't have done what I
wanted.

And I have a few items (such as the Spade & Portabote) because they
found and tested them. Neither were available via the stores, so I'd not
have known they existed.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

In article ,
says...


In article , Larry
wrote:

" wrote in
oups.com:

Have you ever looked at a "Practical Sailor?"

I'll take a look. I normally don't look at boat rags because they look
like sales brochures. You can hardly tell the "articles" from the
advertising in them. Just once I'd like to see one of them say,

"BAYLINER SUCKS!"

If Bayliner made a sailboat, they might ;-)

Didn't Bayliner make a sailboat during a previous energy crisis? The
Buccaneer?

I second everything said about Practical Sailor. I have twenty years of it
stacked up here. Saved ne lots more than it has cost me.
It's an expensive mag because there's no advertising, but I've saved far
more than its cost by not buying things that wouldn't have done what I
wanted.

And I have a few items (such as the Spade & Portabote) because they
found and tested them. Neither were available via the stores, so I'd not
have known they existed.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

In article ,
Gogarty wrote:

JERE said:
If Bayliner made a sailboat, they might ;-)

Didn't Bayliner make a sailboat during a previous energy crisis? The
Buccaneer?

Oh, GOSH! Saw one of those last season.... Practical Sailor would have
been merciless if they'd been forced to review one. Personal opinion: a
Bayliner tag would have been a step up from what I saw. Didn't help that
the new owners didn't have enough of a clue to put an anchor out before
their powerless and sail-less boat drifted into shallow water. Our
friends, the towboat operators that pulled them in, were less charitable.

Looking at the boat, my opinion was that it was at best a motor sailor,
and the engine was so marginal that it wouldn't do that well.

Sorry if I offend any Buccaneer owners, but you'll understand if you
sail against us any afternoon. You don't want to compare yourself with
us under power, as we put many larger boats to shame.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Skip,
I was wondering why you were replacing your Lewmar 1000.

I just so happen to have a Lewmar 1000, vert/drum/gypsy windlass. I
purchased it new many years ago for my Ingrid 38 (13-14 ton) building
project. Since I launched only ~4 years ago, I have only used it for 3
seasons of cruising. Mostly opting for anchorages rather than marinas. Maybe
200 drops and recoveries.

My self: I have always had a problem getting it to start it's initial
free-fall. After the 35lb anchor and 30ft of chain are over the roller, it
is fine. As a result, I initially was releasing the friction discs too much
and in the second season, one of them jammed and broke in several pieces.

The solution I have resorted to, get the first shot of chain started, is to
"power down" this doesn't work well on this windlass because the release
screw in the motor-to-drum shaft backs out in ccw rotation.

Aside from that, I have found it to be a very powerful and reliable
windlass. Sure beats a manual windlass.

I will refrain from commenting on rope-chain drums, S/L rope chain splices.

My thoughts and opinions, FWIW.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions

"Skip Gundlach" wrote in message
ups.com...
Some of you may be aware that we had to saw out the old one in the
course of trying to service our antique Lewmar 1000 vertical drum/gypsy
windlass (follow the link in the sig - and follow the comments on the
first page - to see what's up with the refit).

So, we are in the market for a (similar) replacement. We've had the
opportunity to review the survey of Seven Seas Cruising Association
members on the subject.

After replacement of the rotted substrate and repair of the surface, we
expect installation to be pretty straightforward. Our boat is 45' LOD
with fairly substantial overhangs fore and aft; it's got a design
weight of 33000# and an anticipated real weight closer to 40k, after
final loading and provisioning.

We currently have a 20kg Bruce, a Chinese knockoff of same design and
weight, forward, both all chain, and a 34# Fortress with mostly rope
rode. We'd sort of like to move up one grade in anchors, but it's not
a critical event at this juncture in our refit.

Unfortunately for us, our boat appears to be right in the middle of the
high or low end of most of the various different classes of vertical
windlasses available, at least based on boat length. Having had a
replacement motor in my hand at the local WM Bargain Center, I agree
with the assessment of the Lewmar Sprint series, which is that they're
not worth having.

We also know that prices vary all over the map; what is quoted on one
site may be double that of another. So, "street price" is what matters
in the end.

So, given a gypsy/drum arrangement on a vertical windlass with a chain
pipe (automatically feeds the chain below), and a street price of under
or very close to $2k, who's replaced theirs recently with something
like that, and what's been the experience?

Thanks.

L8R

Skip, rehabbing (well, waiting to rehab) and champing at the bit to get
back to refitting

Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2 - the vessel as Tehemana, as we bought her

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails.
Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

The Buccaneer was made by Chrysler, they also made the Mutineer.
Paul


Gogarty wrote:
In article ,
says...


In article , Larry
wrote:


" wrote in
egroups.com:


Have you ever looked at a "Practical Sailor?"

I'll take a look. I normally don't look at boat rags because they look
like sales brochures. You can hardly tell the "articles" from the
advertising in them. Just once I'd like to see one of them say,

"BAYLINER SUCKS!"

If Bayliner made a sailboat, they might ;-)


Didn't Bayliner make a sailboat during a previous energy crisis? The
Buccaneer?

I second everything said about Practical Sailor. I have twenty years of it
stacked up here. Saved ne lots more than it has cost me.

It's an expensive mag because there's no advertising, but I've saved far
more than its cost by not buying things that wouldn't have done what I
wanted.

And I have a few items (such as the Spade & Portabote) because they
found and tested them. Neither were available via the stores, so I'd not
have known they existed.

--
Jere Lull
Xan-a-Deux ('73 Tanzer 28 #4 out of Tolchester, MD)
Xan's Pages: http://members.dca.net/jerelull/X-Main.html
Our BVI FAQs (290+ pics) http://homepage.mac.com/jerelull/BVI/

Hi, Steve, and group,

"Steve" wrote in message
...
Skip,
I was wondering why you were replacing your Lewmar 1000.

I replaced it because I had to saw it out. With us about to go out for
life, and it totally corroded, though working successfully the last dozen
times we used it, we wanted to take it out for servicing.

However, it was totally frozen, and attempts to unfreeze it broke it (see my
last couple of photo galleries for examples of what we faced - the ones for
July).

So, we finally sawed it out, and are in the process of deck repair (very
minor, cosmetic stuff) and undergirding replacement (more rot as found in
numerous places aboard).

Steve, if you need some parts, the only destruction done was the gearbox and
support aluminum, as well as having to saw the shaft in half. The motor
seems fine, we have two (3/8 and 5/16) gypsies and one full set of clutch
media in addition to everything else you see in some of the other pix. I
know clutches are problematic, though one could probably size-match them for
something which would work, as there are no parts for this windlass
available NIS; the other stuff you'd have to use an awful lot to wear out,
I'd think. As I never dropped the anchor, but motored it down, and from the
looks of it, likewise the prior owner, the clutches look new (one is, in
fact, new, being in the spare gypsy box, the other small one having broken
when I was separating them)...

How's your project coming??

L8R

Skip, rehabbing (well, waiting to rehab) as fast as I can in order to get
back to refitting


--
Morgan 461 #2
SV Flying Pig
http://tinyurl.com/384p2 The vessel as Tehamana, as we bought her

"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you
didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail
away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore.
Dream. Discover." - Mark Twain

On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 20:00:19 -0400, Larry wrote:

Paul L wrote in
:

Practical Sailor mag just did a writeup and test on the smaller
windlasses. The October issue will have tests on the mid-range
windlasses.

Paul
SV Jeorgia



Does it say "This windlass sucks! Don't buy this awful product!", or does
it say what boat magazines always say that every advertiser's, or potential
advertiser's products are just wonderful and you can't live without them?

Haven't read Practical Sailor, Larry? G They frequently condemn
companies outright by describing exactly how fast they went to rat****
when tested in the real world. They take zero advertising, which is
why I buy it. I don't always agree with them, but I haven't had a bum
steer yet in marine products.

R.

rhys wrote in
:

Haven't read Practical Sailor, Larry? G They frequently condemn
companies outright by describing exactly how fast they went to rat****
when tested in the real world. They take zero advertising, which is
why I buy it. I don't always agree with them, but I haven't had a bum
steer yet in marine products.

R.


I've already been properly flogged on this issue.....You're too late...(c;

--
Larry