Thanks for chiming in! It's always nice to have people who actually know
what they are talking about.

So, to come back to the OP's question, if a transom is originally
constructed with fiberglass skins and a plywood core, and some of the
plywood is rotten, would it be OK to replace the rotten parts with several
pieces of plywood butted together? Or would it be better to scarf in one
piece of plywood to replace the rotten area?

I guess another way of asking the question is, would butt joints in the
plywood core significantly weaken the transom?

I am thinking that they would not weaken the transom.

--Mac

If they are relying on the core for stiffness and strength,
then butt joints would be weaker. I wouldn't do it on my
boat for example.

I would cut off the outer skin near the transom corners,
chisel and then grind out all the plywood and rebuild the
transom

Evan Gatehouse

- Fixing transoms is not an area I'm involved in, but looking at it from a
long way away I'd say you can't do a proper job with the outboard still in
place. My experience in cutting out rot is that it's easier to cut out a
complete piece of wood and replace it rather than cut out 10% and try to fit
something to fill up the hole. Wish I'd known this a while back.
- Any time you spend in removing and replacing the outboard will be saved
several times over by the time you are done.
- you need to do ALL the demolition before you start to do the repair (
it's true of most things ) It's no more work to patch a little more area
than it is to fill several more holes.
- with the motor off and the demo done, try a small electric fan heater
under a cheap tarp - 24 hours at 30 degrees C does a lot of drying. But
control the temperature, too hot and it will be too dry. It takes time for
moisture to migrate to the surface where it can evaporate.
- read and believe the info from the epoxy suppliers
David

"Chris" wrote in message
...
I'm trying to dry the transom out a bit before I dig further into it.
Clearly several days won't be enough, and who knows if weeks will ever as
long as it is outdoors. So, I may have to get digging into it sooner,
regardless of the still wet wood.

To recap, I've got almost 1 foot square cut out around the drain hole
(drain hole and up), which was the really punky stuff. I've also got 1/4"
holes drilled in various places on both sides to checkout the wood. (note
that pouring something in won't likely help here with it exposed and open
now).

The outer hull is thick, really thick (fiberglass), but the inner side is
almost done 3/4 the way up and pretty thin, I don't even think it adds
strength.

Currently the motor is still mounted (however many pounds of it).

To visualize the transom on this boat, consider the typical outboard
transom, but on a V type hull. Inside under where the motor mounts
(centre), there looks like there is a big timber there, such as a rough
cut 2" x 4", or maybe 2x6 or 2x8. Its hard to tell as I suspect it may go
all the way through to the outer hull and be glued in. Below this timber
about 2-3 inches down are the other motor engine bolts that tie it in
lower. And below this for the next 1.5 feet perhaps is the area of the
drain plug. To each side of this the floor is elevated clearly due to the
V, as well the solid wall (inner/outer fiberglass) goes up higher to the
full length of the transom. I can actually see plywood near the top as it
wasn't covered in glass.

I suspect so far that the wood beneath the timber is rotten, and likewise
straight across from there on both sides. Above that things appear strong
and solid, and a few drill holes have proved that there's nothing punky
there.

So, I either take the outboard off now, or leave it on. My guess is to
clear the wood from under the timber level all the way to both sides, and
then put new wood in right across. Glass it in, and to finalize it, glass
a 2x4 or 4x4 to the outside of this new area (to the inner transom, and
floor).

Now it'll be strong. What do you think?


"Steve Weingart" wrote in message
.. .
If the transom is suspect, check out http://www.transomrepair.com, they
have a whole system for removing all of the wood in the transom and then
filling the space with a pourable resin/chopped filler system. I was
going
to use this in my 21' Mako (the Mako factory approved), but sold the boat
before it needed the work (just had a few rotten spots, but the majority
of
the transom has still been strong).

Cheers,

--
Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email)
http://www.gulf-stream.net/patandsteve

"David Flew" wrote in
:

I agree with what David is saying here... Remove the O/B if you are
going to do major work... But, that said... On my Mako, I had a similar
circumstance where the wood in a triangle about a foot tall and 2 feet
wide at the bottom of the transom was completely rotten. The upper 18"
of the transom was completely solid. I drained the water and sealed the
leaks, then watched it closely for flexing for two years prepared to do
the repair job. It was still solid when I sold the boat.


BTW, that pourable stuff is not for putting in through small holes...
You remove the skin at the top of the transom and dig out ALL of the
wood. You are left with the two skins. You plug all of the holes and
put some plywood on the outside of both sides as a temporary support
then fill up the transom with the sea-cast material. It sets, then you
have a permanent wood-free transom. Redrill the engine mounting holes
and remount the O/B. Check out the website, it's got a ot of useful info
(just for truth in advertising's sake: I have no relatoinship with
those folks whatsoever, I just did a bunch of research on that product
and it looked like a great thing).

- Fixing transoms is not an area I'm involved in, but looking at it
from a
long way away I'd say you can't do a proper job with the outboard
still in place. My experience in cutting out rot is that it's easier
to cut out a complete piece of wood and replace it rather than cut out
10% and try to fit something to fill up the hole. Wish I'd known this
a while back.
- Any time you spend in removing and replacing the outboard will be
saved
several times over by the time you are done.
- you need to do ALL the demolition before you start to do the repair
(
it's true of most things ) It's no more work to patch a little more
area than it is to fill several more holes.
- with the motor off and the demo done, try a small electric fan
heater
under a cheap tarp - 24 hours at 30 degrees C does a lot of drying.
But control the temperature, too hot and it will be too dry. It takes
time for moisture to migrate to the surface where it can evaporate.
- read and believe the info from the epoxy suppliers
David

"Chris" wrote in message
...
I'm trying to dry the transom out a bit before I dig further into it.
Clearly several days won't be enough, and who knows if weeks will
ever as long as it is outdoors. So, I may have to get digging into
it sooner, regardless of the still wet wood.

To recap, I've got almost 1 foot square cut out around the drain hole
(drain hole and up), which was the really punky stuff. I've also got
1/4" holes drilled in various places on both sides to checkout the
wood. (note that pouring something in won't likely help here with it
exposed and open now).

The outer hull is thick, really thick (fiberglass), but the inner
side is almost done 3/4 the way up and pretty thin, I don't even
think it adds strength.

Currently the motor is still mounted (however many pounds of it).

To visualize the transom on this boat, consider the typical outboard
transom, but on a V type hull. Inside under where the motor mounts
(centre), there looks like there is a big timber there, such as a
rough cut 2" x 4", or maybe 2x6 or 2x8. Its hard to tell as I
suspect it may go all the way through to the outer hull and be glued
in. Below this timber about 2-3 inches down are the other motor
engine bolts that tie it in lower. And below this for the next 1.5
feet perhaps is the area of the drain plug. To each side of this the
floor is elevated clearly due to the V, as well the solid wall
(inner/outer fiberglass) goes up higher to the full length of the
transom. I can actually see plywood near the top as it wasn't
covered in glass.

I suspect so far that the wood beneath the timber is rotten, and
likewise straight across from there on both sides. Above that things
appear strong and solid, and a few drill holes have proved that
there's nothing punky there.

So, I either take the outboard off now, or leave it on. My guess is
to clear the wood from under the timber level all the way to both
sides, and then put new wood in right across. Glass it in, and to
finalize it, glass a 2x4 or 4x4 to the outside of this new area (to
the inner transom, and floor).

Now it'll be strong. What do you think?


"Steve Weingart" wrote in message
.. .
If the transom is suspect, check out http://www.transomrepair.com,
they have a whole system for removing all of the wood in the transom
and then filling the space with a pourable resin/chopped filler
system. I was going
to use this in my 21' Mako (the Mako factory approved), but sold the
boat before it needed the work (just had a few rotten spots, but the
majority of
the transom has still been strong).

Cheers,

--
Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email)
http://www.gulf-stream.net/patandsteve








--
Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email)
http://www.gulf-stream.net

When I first watched This Old House on TV I was impressed by how easy they
made most jobs look. Then I realized that one of the things that made those
jobs easy was that they didn't try to work around existing structures,
furniture and possessions: they gutted the space they were working in and
started the project anew.
Remove the outboard and get serious about removing rotten wood before
starting any repairs. You'll save a lot of time and it will be easier to
work.

"Steve Weingart" wrote in message
.. .
"David Flew" wrote in
:

I agree with what David is saying here... Remove the O/B if you are
going to do major work... But, that said... On my Mako, I had a similar
circumstance where the wood in a triangle about a foot tall and 2 feet
wide at the bottom of the transom was completely rotten. The upper 18"
of the transom was completely solid. I drained the water and sealed the
leaks, then watched it closely for flexing for two years prepared to do
the repair job. It was still solid when I sold the boat.


BTW, that pourable stuff is not for putting in through small holes...
You remove the skin at the top of the transom and dig out ALL of the
wood. You are left with the two skins. You plug all of the holes and
put some plywood on the outside of both sides as a temporary support
then fill up the transom with the sea-cast material. It sets, then you
have a permanent wood-free transom. Redrill the engine mounting holes
and remount the O/B. Check out the website, it's got a ot of useful info
(just for truth in advertising's sake: I have no relatoinship with
those folks whatsoever, I just did a bunch of research on that product
and it looked like a great thing).

- Fixing transoms is not an area I'm involved in, but looking at it
from a
long way away I'd say you can't do a proper job with the outboard
still in place. My experience in cutting out rot is that it's easier
to cut out a complete piece of wood and replace it rather than cut out
10% and try to fit something to fill up the hole. Wish I'd known this
a while back.
- Any time you spend in removing and replacing the outboard will be
saved
several times over by the time you are done.
- you need to do ALL the demolition before you start to do the repair
(
it's true of most things ) It's no more work to patch a little more
area than it is to fill several more holes.
- with the motor off and the demo done, try a small electric fan
heater
under a cheap tarp - 24 hours at 30 degrees C does a lot of drying.
But control the temperature, too hot and it will be too dry. It takes
time for moisture to migrate to the surface where it can evaporate.
- read and believe the info from the epoxy suppliers
David

"Chris" wrote in message
...
I'm trying to dry the transom out a bit before I dig further into it.
Clearly several days won't be enough, and who knows if weeks will
ever as long as it is outdoors. So, I may have to get digging into
it sooner, regardless of the still wet wood.

To recap, I've got almost 1 foot square cut out around the drain hole
(drain hole and up), which was the really punky stuff. I've also got
1/4" holes drilled in various places on both sides to checkout the
wood. (note that pouring something in won't likely help here with it
exposed and open now).

The outer hull is thick, really thick (fiberglass), but the inner
side is almost done 3/4 the way up and pretty thin, I don't even
think it adds strength.

Currently the motor is still mounted (however many pounds of it).

To visualize the transom on this boat, consider the typical outboard
transom, but on a V type hull. Inside under where the motor mounts
(centre), there looks like there is a big timber there, such as a
rough cut 2" x 4", or maybe 2x6 or 2x8. Its hard to tell as I
suspect it may go all the way through to the outer hull and be glued
in. Below this timber about 2-3 inches down are the other motor
engine bolts that tie it in lower. And below this for the next 1.5
feet perhaps is the area of the drain plug. To each side of this the
floor is elevated clearly due to the V, as well the solid wall
(inner/outer fiberglass) goes up higher to the full length of the
transom. I can actually see plywood near the top as it wasn't
covered in glass.

I suspect so far that the wood beneath the timber is rotten, and
likewise straight across from there on both sides. Above that things
appear strong and solid, and a few drill holes have proved that
there's nothing punky there.

So, I either take the outboard off now, or leave it on. My guess is
to clear the wood from under the timber level all the way to both
sides, and then put new wood in right across. Glass it in, and to
finalize it, glass a 2x4 or 4x4 to the outside of this new area (to
the inner transom, and floor).

Now it'll be strong. What do you think?


"Steve Weingart" wrote in message
.. .
If the transom is suspect, check out http://www.transomrepair.com,
they have a whole system for removing all of the wood in the transom
and then filling the space with a pourable resin/chopped filler
system. I was going
to use this in my 21' Mako (the Mako factory approved), but sold the
boat before it needed the work (just had a few rotten spots, but the
majority of
the transom has still been strong).

Cheers,

--
Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email)
http://www.gulf-stream.net/patandsteve








--
Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email)
http://www.gulf-stream.net

I've taken the advice and am in the process now of removing all hardware off
the back of the boat. Likewise, I took the outboard off (nice and heavy).
As the boat top at the rear end will be in the way, I am next going to
remove that part. My idea is to cut in at the narrowest point about 3 feet
up from the back and then lift the whole rear piece off. (The entire top is
the length of the boat, and I don't want to get into taking all of that
off... so I can glass the sections where I make the cut after I'm done, its
just glass now anyway ).

That's the only way I can get to the wood on the transom and clean it out
good. I tried laying in the cubby hole at the back (5ft wide x 3ft deep x 2
feet high) and found it would just be too hard to do the job that way, and
I'd never get all the wood out.

So, wish me luck, this is going to be a big job. I can see how paying
someone to do it could cost thousands. Fortunately, I can handle this.


"William Andersen" wrote in message
news:YTCre.200$X71.151@fed1read07...
When I first watched This Old House on TV I was impressed by how easy they
made most jobs look. Then I realized that one of the things that made
those jobs easy was that they didn't try to work around existing
structures, furniture and possessions: they gutted the space they were
working in and started the project anew.
Remove the outboard and get serious about removing rotten wood before
starting any repairs. You'll save a lot of time and it will be easier to
work.

"Steve Weingart" wrote in message
.. .
"David Flew" wrote in
:

I agree with what David is saying here... Remove the O/B if you are
going to do major work... But, that said... On my Mako, I had a similar
circumstance where the wood in a triangle about a foot tall and 2 feet
wide at the bottom of the transom was completely rotten. The upper 18"
of the transom was completely solid. I drained the water and sealed the
leaks, then watched it closely for flexing for two years prepared to do
the repair job. It was still solid when I sold the boat.


BTW, that pourable stuff is not for putting in through small holes...
You remove the skin at the top of the transom and dig out ALL of the
wood. You are left with the two skins. You plug all of the holes and
put some plywood on the outside of both sides as a temporary support
then fill up the transom with the sea-cast material. It sets, then you
have a permanent wood-free transom. Redrill the engine mounting holes
and remount the O/B. Check out the website, it's got a ot of useful info
(just for truth in advertising's sake: I have no relatoinship with
those folks whatsoever, I just did a bunch of research on that product
and it looked like a great thing).

- Fixing transoms is not an area I'm involved in, but looking at it
from a
long way away I'd say you can't do a proper job with the outboard
still in place. My experience in cutting out rot is that it's easier
to cut out a complete piece of wood and replace it rather than cut out
10% and try to fit something to fill up the hole. Wish I'd known this
a while back.
- Any time you spend in removing and replacing the outboard will be
saved
several times over by the time you are done.
- you need to do ALL the demolition before you start to do the repair
(
it's true of most things ) It's no more work to patch a little more
area than it is to fill several more holes.
- with the motor off and the demo done, try a small electric fan
heater
under a cheap tarp - 24 hours at 30 degrees C does a lot of drying.
But control the temperature, too hot and it will be too dry. It takes
time for moisture to migrate to the surface where it can evaporate.
- read and believe the info from the epoxy suppliers
David

"Chris" wrote in message
...
I'm trying to dry the transom out a bit before I dig further into it.
Clearly several days won't be enough, and who knows if weeks will
ever as long as it is outdoors. So, I may have to get digging into
it sooner, regardless of the still wet wood.

To recap, I've got almost 1 foot square cut out around the drain hole
(drain hole and up), which was the really punky stuff. I've also got
1/4" holes drilled in various places on both sides to checkout the
wood. (note that pouring something in won't likely help here with it
exposed and open now).

The outer hull is thick, really thick (fiberglass), but the inner
side is almost done 3/4 the way up and pretty thin, I don't even
think it adds strength.

Currently the motor is still mounted (however many pounds of it).

To visualize the transom on this boat, consider the typical outboard
transom, but on a V type hull. Inside under where the motor mounts
(centre), there looks like there is a big timber there, such as a
rough cut 2" x 4", or maybe 2x6 or 2x8. Its hard to tell as I
suspect it may go all the way through to the outer hull and be glued
in. Below this timber about 2-3 inches down are the other motor
engine bolts that tie it in lower. And below this for the next 1.5
feet perhaps is the area of the drain plug. To each side of this the
floor is elevated clearly due to the V, as well the solid wall
(inner/outer fiberglass) goes up higher to the full length of the
transom. I can actually see plywood near the top as it wasn't
covered in glass.

I suspect so far that the wood beneath the timber is rotten, and
likewise straight across from there on both sides. Above that things
appear strong and solid, and a few drill holes have proved that
there's nothing punky there.

So, I either take the outboard off now, or leave it on. My guess is
to clear the wood from under the timber level all the way to both
sides, and then put new wood in right across. Glass it in, and to
finalize it, glass a 2x4 or 4x4 to the outside of this new area (to
the inner transom, and floor).

Now it'll be strong. What do you think?


"Steve Weingart" wrote in message
.. .
If the transom is suspect, check out http://www.transomrepair.com,
they have a whole system for removing all of the wood in the transom
and then filling the space with a pourable resin/chopped filler
system. I was going
to use this in my 21' Mako (the Mako factory approved), but sold the
boat before it needed the work (just had a few rotten spots, but the
majority of
the transom has still been strong).

Cheers,

--
Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email)
http://www.gulf-stream.net/patandsteve








--
Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email)
http://www.gulf-stream.net

Great idea for a reality TV show: "This Old Boat."
They wouldn't need to do a different boat each week, because one aging
vessel would keep them busy season after season!


"William Andersen" wrote in message
news:YTCre.200$X71.151@fed1read07...
When I first watched This Old House on TV I was impressed by how easy they
made most jobs look. Then I realized that one of the things that made
those jobs easy was that they didn't try to work around existing
structures, furniture and possessions: they gutted the space they were
working in and started the project anew.
Remove the outboard and get serious about removing rotten wood before
starting any repairs. You'll save a lot of time and it will be easier to
work.

"Steve Weingart" wrote in message
.. .
"David Flew" wrote in
:

I agree with what David is saying here... Remove the O/B if you are
going to do major work... But, that said... On my Mako, I had a similar
circumstance where the wood in a triangle about a foot tall and 2 feet
wide at the bottom of the transom was completely rotten. The upper 18"
of the transom was completely solid. I drained the water and sealed the
leaks, then watched it closely for flexing for two years prepared to do
the repair job. It was still solid when I sold the boat.


BTW, that pourable stuff is not for putting in through small holes...
You remove the skin at the top of the transom and dig out ALL of the
wood. You are left with the two skins. You plug all of the holes and
put some plywood on the outside of both sides as a temporary support
then fill up the transom with the sea-cast material. It sets, then you
have a permanent wood-free transom. Redrill the engine mounting holes
and remount the O/B. Check out the website, it's got a ot of useful info
(just for truth in advertising's sake: I have no relatoinship with
those folks whatsoever, I just did a bunch of research on that product
and it looked like a great thing).

- Fixing transoms is not an area I'm involved in, but looking at it
from a
long way away I'd say you can't do a proper job with the outboard
still in place. My experience in cutting out rot is that it's easier
to cut out a complete piece of wood and replace it rather than cut out
10% and try to fit something to fill up the hole. Wish I'd known this
a while back.
- Any time you spend in removing and replacing the outboard will be
saved
several times over by the time you are done.
- you need to do ALL the demolition before you start to do the repair
(
it's true of most things ) It's no more work to patch a little more
area than it is to fill several more holes.
- with the motor off and the demo done, try a small electric fan
heater
under a cheap tarp - 24 hours at 30 degrees C does a lot of drying.
But control the temperature, too hot and it will be too dry. It takes
time for moisture to migrate to the surface where it can evaporate.
- read and believe the info from the epoxy suppliers
David

"Chris" wrote in message
...
I'm trying to dry the transom out a bit before I dig further into it.
Clearly several days won't be enough, and who knows if weeks will
ever as long as it is outdoors. So, I may have to get digging into
it sooner, regardless of the still wet wood.

To recap, I've got almost 1 foot square cut out around the drain hole
(drain hole and up), which was the really punky stuff. I've also got
1/4" holes drilled in various places on both sides to checkout the
wood. (note that pouring something in won't likely help here with it
exposed and open now).

The outer hull is thick, really thick (fiberglass), but the inner
side is almost done 3/4 the way up and pretty thin, I don't even
think it adds strength.

Currently the motor is still mounted (however many pounds of it).

To visualize the transom on this boat, consider the typical outboard
transom, but on a V type hull. Inside under where the motor mounts
(centre), there looks like there is a big timber there, such as a
rough cut 2" x 4", or maybe 2x6 or 2x8. Its hard to tell as I
suspect it may go all the way through to the outer hull and be glued
in. Below this timber about 2-3 inches down are the other motor
engine bolts that tie it in lower. And below this for the next 1.5
feet perhaps is the area of the drain plug. To each side of this the
floor is elevated clearly due to the V, as well the solid wall
(inner/outer fiberglass) goes up higher to the full length of the
transom. I can actually see plywood near the top as it wasn't
covered in glass.

I suspect so far that the wood beneath the timber is rotten, and
likewise straight across from there on both sides. Above that things
appear strong and solid, and a few drill holes have proved that
there's nothing punky there.

So, I either take the outboard off now, or leave it on. My guess is
to clear the wood from under the timber level all the way to both
sides, and then put new wood in right across. Glass it in, and to
finalize it, glass a 2x4 or 4x4 to the outside of this new area (to
the inner transom, and floor).

Now it'll be strong. What do you think?


"Steve Weingart" wrote in message
.. .
If the transom is suspect, check out http://www.transomrepair.com,
they have a whole system for removing all of the wood in the transom
and then filling the space with a pourable resin/chopped filler
system. I was going
to use this in my 21' Mako (the Mako factory approved), but sold the
boat before it needed the work (just had a few rotten spots, but the
majority of
the transom has still been strong).

Cheers,

--
Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email)
http://www.gulf-stream.net/patandsteve








--
Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email)
http://www.gulf-stream.net

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 21:44:06 -0700, Evan Gatehouse wrote:
[I wrote]

Thanks for chiming in! It's always nice to have people who actually know
what they are talking about.

So, to come back to the OP's question, if a transom is originally
constructed with fiberglass skins and a plywood core, and some of the
plywood is rotten, would it be OK to replace the rotten parts with several
pieces of plywood butted together? Or would it be better to scarf in one
piece of plywood to replace the rotten area?

I guess another way of asking the question is, would butt joints in the
plywood core significantly weaken the transom?

I am thinking that they would not weaken the transom.

--Mac

If they are relying on the core for stiffness and strength,
then butt joints would be weaker. I wouldn't do it on my
boat for example.

I would cut off the outer skin near the transom corners,
chisel and then grind out all the plywood and rebuild the
transom

Evan Gatehouse

Thanks. From elsewhere in the thread, it sounds like the OP is going to
get serious about the job and replace just about all the plywood in the
transom.

Also, the OP mentioned somewhere else that there is almost no fiberglass
on the inside of the transom near the top. This leads me to believe that
it is essentially a plywood transom which uses overlapped glass as a
means to attach the transom to the hull. This is a lot different than,
say, a cored deck.

--Mac

There was a show called Ship Shape a few years ago - I don't think it's on
anymore. It was like This Old House: each week they did a project or an
update on a continuing project, and visited a factory for boat stuff or had
a manufacturers rep at the boat yard to demo a product. It was pretty
interesting.

"Auerbach" wrote in message
...
Great idea for a reality TV show: "This Old Boat."
They wouldn't need to do a different boat each week, because one aging
vessel would keep them busy season after season!


"William Andersen" wrote in message
news:YTCre.200$X71.151@fed1read07...
When I first watched This Old House on TV I was impressed by how easy
they made most jobs look. Then I realized that one of the things that
made those jobs easy was that they didn't try to work around existing
structures, furniture and possessions: they gutted the space they were
working in and started the project anew.
Remove the outboard and get serious about removing rotten wood before
starting any repairs. You'll save a lot of time and it will be easier to
work.

"Steve Weingart" wrote in message
.. .
"David Flew" wrote in
:

I agree with what David is saying here... Remove the O/B if you are
going to do major work... But, that said... On my Mako, I had a similar
circumstance where the wood in a triangle about a foot tall and 2 feet
wide at the bottom of the transom was completely rotten. The upper 18"
of the transom was completely solid. I drained the water and sealed the
leaks, then watched it closely for flexing for two years prepared to do
the repair job. It was still solid when I sold the boat.


BTW, that pourable stuff is not for putting in through small holes...
You remove the skin at the top of the transom and dig out ALL of the
wood. You are left with the two skins. You plug all of the holes and
put some plywood on the outside of both sides as a temporary support
then fill up the transom with the sea-cast material. It sets, then you
have a permanent wood-free transom. Redrill the engine mounting holes
and remount the O/B. Check out the website, it's got a ot of useful info
(just for truth in advertising's sake: I have no relatoinship with
those folks whatsoever, I just did a bunch of research on that product
and it looked like a great thing).

- Fixing transoms is not an area I'm involved in, but looking at it
from a
long way away I'd say you can't do a proper job with the outboard
still in place. My experience in cutting out rot is that it's easier
to cut out a complete piece of wood and replace it rather than cut out
10% and try to fit something to fill up the hole. Wish I'd known this
a while back.
- Any time you spend in removing and replacing the outboard will be
saved
several times over by the time you are done.
- you need to do ALL the demolition before you start to do the repair
(
it's true of most things ) It's no more work to patch a little more
area than it is to fill several more holes.
- with the motor off and the demo done, try a small electric fan
heater
under a cheap tarp - 24 hours at 30 degrees C does a lot of drying.
But control the temperature, too hot and it will be too dry. It takes
time for moisture to migrate to the surface where it can evaporate.
- read and believe the info from the epoxy suppliers
David

"Chris" wrote in message
...
I'm trying to dry the transom out a bit before I dig further into it.
Clearly several days won't be enough, and who knows if weeks will
ever as long as it is outdoors. So, I may have to get digging into
it sooner, regardless of the still wet wood.

To recap, I've got almost 1 foot square cut out around the drain hole
(drain hole and up), which was the really punky stuff. I've also got
1/4" holes drilled in various places on both sides to checkout the
wood. (note that pouring something in won't likely help here with it
exposed and open now).

The outer hull is thick, really thick (fiberglass), but the inner
side is almost done 3/4 the way up and pretty thin, I don't even
think it adds strength.

Currently the motor is still mounted (however many pounds of it).

To visualize the transom on this boat, consider the typical outboard
transom, but on a V type hull. Inside under where the motor mounts
(centre), there looks like there is a big timber there, such as a
rough cut 2" x 4", or maybe 2x6 or 2x8. Its hard to tell as I
suspect it may go all the way through to the outer hull and be glued
in. Below this timber about 2-3 inches down are the other motor
engine bolts that tie it in lower. And below this for the next 1.5
feet perhaps is the area of the drain plug. To each side of this the
floor is elevated clearly due to the V, as well the solid wall
(inner/outer fiberglass) goes up higher to the full length of the
transom. I can actually see plywood near the top as it wasn't
covered in glass.

I suspect so far that the wood beneath the timber is rotten, and
likewise straight across from there on both sides. Above that things
appear strong and solid, and a few drill holes have proved that
there's nothing punky there.

So, I either take the outboard off now, or leave it on. My guess is
to clear the wood from under the timber level all the way to both
sides, and then put new wood in right across. Glass it in, and to
finalize it, glass a 2x4 or 4x4 to the outside of this new area (to
the inner transom, and floor).

Now it'll be strong. What do you think?


"Steve Weingart" wrote in message
.. .
If the transom is suspect, check out http://www.transomrepair.com,
they have a whole system for removing all of the wood in the transom
and then filling the space with a pourable resin/chopped filler
system. I was going
to use this in my 21' Mako (the Mako factory approved), but sold the
boat before it needed the work (just had a few rotten spots, but the
majority of
the transom has still been strong).

Cheers,

--
Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email)
http://www.gulf-stream.net/patandsteve








--
Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email)
http://www.gulf-stream.net

That's correct. On both the right and left sides (inside) you can see the
original plywood near the top of the boat. Almost looks like they didn't
finish the job.

"Mac" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 21:44:06 -0700, Evan Gatehouse wrote:
[I wrote]

Thanks for chiming in! It's always nice to have people who actually know
what they are talking about.

So, to come back to the OP's question, if a transom is originally
constructed with fiberglass skins and a plywood core, and some of the
plywood is rotten, would it be OK to replace the rotten parts with
several
pieces of plywood butted together? Or would it be better to scarf in one
piece of plywood to replace the rotten area?

I guess another way of asking the question is, would butt joints in the
plywood core significantly weaken the transom?

I am thinking that they would not weaken the transom.

--Mac

If they are relying on the core for stiffness and strength,
then butt joints would be weaker. I wouldn't do it on my
boat for example.

I would cut off the outer skin near the transom corners,
chisel and then grind out all the plywood and rebuild the
transom

Evan Gatehouse

Thanks. From elsewhere in the thread, it sounds like the OP is going to
get serious about the job and replace just about all the plywood in the
transom.

Also, the OP mentioned somewhere else that there is almost no fiberglass
on the inside of the transom near the top. This leads me to believe that
it is essentially a plywood transom which uses overlapped glass as a
means to attach the transom to the hull. This is a lot different than,
say, a cored deck.

--Mac

Taking the advice of "This old house", I've done a tear down job for "This
old boat".... Lets see, I cut 3 feet of the top half off to get at the
transom from above. What I found while taking all of this top off was
interesting. Wet wood, and more wet wood. The very tops of the two sides
were dry, but it wasn't more than 6 inches down when the wood seemed wet.
Not to mention, upon removing the hardware, almost every bolt or screw I
took out had visible deterioration wherever it was in the transom. For
example; the ski hooks would have been interesting, I could see a skier
stuck with all the rope.. ha ha.

I've now got all the old plywood out of the transom (2 - 3/4 inch pieces),
and I'm going to clean / prep the area for the rebuild. It would seem
logical at this point to take the advise of putting in whole pieces rather
than parts. Clearly, without opening the top of this fiberglass pop can I
would have never been able to get to take the transom apart.





"William Andersen" wrote in message
news:IrOre.312$X71.105@fed1read07...
There was a show called Ship Shape a few years ago - I don't think it's on
anymore. It was like This Old House: each week they did a project or an
update on a continuing project, and visited a factory for boat stuff or
had a manufacturers rep at the boat yard to demo a product. It was pretty
interesting.

"Auerbach" wrote in message
...
Great idea for a reality TV show: "This Old Boat."
They wouldn't need to do a different boat each week, because one aging
vessel would keep them busy season after season!


"William Andersen" wrote in message
news:YTCre.200$X71.151@fed1read07...
When I first watched This Old House on TV I was impressed by how easy
they made most jobs look. Then I realized that one of the things that
made those jobs easy was that they didn't try to work around existing
structures, furniture and possessions: they gutted the space they were
working in and started the project anew.
Remove the outboard and get serious about removing rotten wood before
starting any repairs. You'll save a lot of time and it will be easier to
work.

"Steve Weingart" wrote in message
.. .
"David Flew" wrote in
:

I agree with what David is saying here... Remove the O/B if you are
going to do major work... But, that said... On my Mako, I had a
similar
circumstance where the wood in a triangle about a foot tall and 2 feet
wide at the bottom of the transom was completely rotten. The upper 18"
of the transom was completely solid. I drained the water and sealed
the
leaks, then watched it closely for flexing for two years prepared to do
the repair job. It was still solid when I sold the boat.


BTW, that pourable stuff is not for putting in through small holes...
You remove the skin at the top of the transom and dig out ALL of the
wood. You are left with the two skins. You plug all of the holes and
put some plywood on the outside of both sides as a temporary support
then fill up the transom with the sea-cast material. It sets, then you
have a permanent wood-free transom. Redrill the engine mounting holes
and remount the O/B. Check out the website, it's got a ot of useful
info
(just for truth in advertising's sake: I have no relatoinship with
those folks whatsoever, I just did a bunch of research on that product
and it looked like a great thing).

- Fixing transoms is not an area I'm involved in, but looking at it
from a
long way away I'd say you can't do a proper job with the outboard
still in place. My experience in cutting out rot is that it's easier
to cut out a complete piece of wood and replace it rather than cut out
10% and try to fit something to fill up the hole. Wish I'd known this
a while back.
- Any time you spend in removing and replacing the outboard will be
saved
several times over by the time you are done.
- you need to do ALL the demolition before you start to do the repair
(
it's true of most things ) It's no more work to patch a little more
area than it is to fill several more holes.
- with the motor off and the demo done, try a small electric fan
heater
under a cheap tarp - 24 hours at 30 degrees C does a lot of drying.
But control the temperature, too hot and it will be too dry. It takes
time for moisture to migrate to the surface where it can evaporate.
- read and believe the info from the epoxy suppliers
David

"Chris" wrote in message
...
I'm trying to dry the transom out a bit before I dig further into it.
Clearly several days won't be enough, and who knows if weeks will
ever as long as it is outdoors. So, I may have to get digging into
it sooner, regardless of the still wet wood.

To recap, I've got almost 1 foot square cut out around the drain hole
(drain hole and up), which was the really punky stuff. I've also got
1/4" holes drilled in various places on both sides to checkout the
wood. (note that pouring something in won't likely help here with it
exposed and open now).

The outer hull is thick, really thick (fiberglass), but the inner
side is almost done 3/4 the way up and pretty thin, I don't even
think it adds strength.

Currently the motor is still mounted (however many pounds of it).

To visualize the transom on this boat, consider the typical outboard
transom, but on a V type hull. Inside under where the motor mounts
(centre), there looks like there is a big timber there, such as a
rough cut 2" x 4", or maybe 2x6 or 2x8. Its hard to tell as I
suspect it may go all the way through to the outer hull and be glued
in. Below this timber about 2-3 inches down are the other motor
engine bolts that tie it in lower. And below this for the next 1.5
feet perhaps is the area of the drain plug. To each side of this the
floor is elevated clearly due to the V, as well the solid wall
(inner/outer fiberglass) goes up higher to the full length of the
transom. I can actually see plywood near the top as it wasn't
covered in glass.

I suspect so far that the wood beneath the timber is rotten, and
likewise straight across from there on both sides. Above that things
appear strong and solid, and a few drill holes have proved that
there's nothing punky there.

So, I either take the outboard off now, or leave it on. My guess is
to clear the wood from under the timber level all the way to both
sides, and then put new wood in right across. Glass it in, and to
finalize it, glass a 2x4 or 4x4 to the outside of this new area (to
the inner transom, and floor).

Now it'll be strong. What do you think?


"Steve Weingart" wrote in message
.. .
If the transom is suspect, check out http://www.transomrepair.com,
they have a whole system for removing all of the wood in the transom
and then filling the space with a pourable resin/chopped filler
system. I was going
to use this in my 21' Mako (the Mako factory approved), but sold the
boat before it needed the work (just had a few rotten spots, but the
majority of
the transom has still been strong).

Cheers,

--
Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email)
http://www.gulf-stream.net/patandsteve








--
Steve (remove anti spam XYX in return address for correct email)
http://www.gulf-stream.net