"DSK" wrote in message
.. .
Steve Lusardi wrote:
Jim,
Normally the keel bolts will be cast into the leadballast and are not
removable without recasting the keel. They will appear as long studs and
fasten thru the floors with nuts and washers.

They can be removed. That's what the threads do.

I believe he means from the keel itself.

Steve

You might have a really tough time getting them to turn... if you put a
slugging wrench down onto the nut, then put on a lock nut over that, you
should be able to get it started.

DSK

They can be removed. That's what the threads do.


Steven J. Ross wrote:
I believe he means from the keel itself.


So did I


Regards
Doug King

Doug,
On all the lead keels that I have seen, the bolts are held in the keel by
anchors, because the lead is too soft for threads to hold. Very often a
frame is constructed of steel and the the bolt pattern in the frame is used
to drill the mounting holes in the floors for alighnment reasons. This frame
is then cast into the keel. Alternatively, a wooden frame is made to suspend
the bolts head down with large washers and then the keel is cast. In all
cases the bolts cannot be removed without recasting the keel. I suppose one
could use a threaded anchor, but I have not seen that.
Steve

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
They can be removed. That's what the threads do.


Steven J. Ross wrote:
I believe he means from the keel itself.


So did I


Regards
Doug King

Steve Lusardi wrote:
Doug,
On all the lead keels that I have seen, the bolts are held in the keel by
anchors, because the lead is too soft for threads to hold.

Really? I suppose if you're casting a lead fin around bolts held in
place by some kind armature, maybe you're right.

In my experience, cast lead keels are alloyed with antimony, which makes
it take a thread very well. The place for the keelbolts are drilled &
tapped (using a jig), then the bolts put in.

I have also seen conventional bolts put up through the keel stub via
recesses molded into into the keel, the recesses are then filled with
putty. Then there's the technique (used in a couple of the lower priced
mass-produced boats of the early 1970s) of welding the keelbolts in a
'T' and casting them into the keel. The method you describe is sort of a
variation, I can easily believe it's done but haven't seen it myself.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

DSK wrote:
They can be removed. That's what the threads do.



Steven J. Ross wrote:

I believe he means from the keel itself.


So did I


Regards
Doug King


If the bolts were bent and cast into the molten keel, you will not
remove them. You should find out the breaking strength of the bolts
and then do not exceed this torque when trying to remove the nuts or
bolts. If you get up close to breaking torque for your bolts and
they don't come out and they don't break they are ok. Hell, If they
get up to 75% and don't give, I'd trust them.

If you break one, you've got to do them all.

If they need to be changed, you might cut them out with a torch or
saw, and re solder the keel top sections around the replacements,
which you will position with very carefully crafted jigs tack
soldered on, then cut off afterwards.

Should keep you busy for the weekend. Older bodymen and plumbers
have experience with lead filling, using a naptha blowtorch. Old
cast iron pipes were often caulked with molten lead.

Good luck

Terry K

On Thu, 26 May 2005 00:41:47 -0300, Terry Spragg
wrote:


If the bolts were bent and cast into the molten keel, you will not
remove them. You should find out the breaking strength of the bolts
and then do not exceed this torque when trying to remove the nuts or
bolts. If you get up close to breaking torque for your bolts and
they don't come out and they don't break they are ok. Hell, If they
get up to 75% and don't give, I'd trust them.
///
Terry K

This certainly sounds like uncommonly good advice.
Unfortunately, it is not practical - something of a day dream in fact.

Engineers find great difficulty in relating tightening torque on a
well-characterized fresh nut and bolt to its allowables or breaking
strength - but when it comes to a submerged, possibly corroded
fastener, you will be hard pressed to compute a torque value that is
within a factor of three of the actual value which snaps the shank.

Brian Whatcott Altus, OK

Brian Whatcott wrote:

On Thu, 26 May 2005 00:41:47 -0300, Terry Spragg
wrote:



If the bolts were bent and cast into the molten keel, you will not
remove them. You should find out the breaking strength of the bolts
and then do not exceed this torque when trying to remove the nuts or
bolts. If you get up close to breaking torque for your bolts and
they don't come out and they don't break they are ok. Hell, If they
get up to 75% and don't give, I'd trust them.

///

Terry K


This certainly sounds like uncommonly good advice.
Unfortunately, it is not practical - something of a day dream in fact.

Engineers find great difficulty in relating tightening torque on a
well-characterized fresh nut and bolt to its allowables or breaking
strength - but when it comes to a submerged, possibly corroded
fastener, you will be hard pressed to compute a torque value that is
within a factor of three of the actual value which snaps the shank.

Brian Whatcott Altus, OK

Well, let's presume a non-corroded bolt, then. If it breaks, it was
corroded. Surely, the fact that it is submerged doesn't matter much.

I know little about this but I do have a couple of suggestions.
Perhaps try to cut the lead out from around the top of one boltat the
joint to allow inspection. If it is good, just make a sheet metal dam
and pour in molten lead.
Maybe put in additional bolts. This involves drilling a large diameter
hole deep into the lead and an access hole from the side, putting in a
long threaded rod and putting two nuts with a large washer on the
threaded rod via the access hole. Then you fill the access hole with
some lead and epoxy and pour lead down around the threaded rod. I
believe I got this idea from Practical Sailor who discussed this same
topic once.
What could these green corrosion products possible be? Are the bolts
really SS? Check the tops of the bolts. If they are SS what could
this material be? Look into SS corrosion and then in the CRC Handbook
to see what the possible products look like.

Is it possible the builder put a copper sheet between the keel and hull
for some reason?

Your problem got me curious so I did a search on keel bolts and there
is a plethora of info on the subject of inspecting and replacing keel
bolts. Owning a 28' boat, I have never had this problem because my
ballast is internal to the hull of my S2. Considering the difficulties
with bolt-on keels, why do they seem favored over good internal
ballast?
Now I cant stop and will become obsessed with finding a way to inspect
keel bolts...