Tomek,
I have been in the process of building a Roberts 53G. I started from
the bare plans and had to do all the work alone. You won't believe how
hard it is to find people willing to work (a four letter word here in
Arkansas). I was lucky enough to find some latinos who give an honest
days work at a fair price to do the roughing out of the inside
building.

I started in August 1991 and as I said I started from the ground up. I
have a little over 1900 hours with a lot of lost time due to injuries.
This is NOT a cheap operation. At present I have put in just over
$107,000 into it. That includes an engine and many more items that are
required on a boat. If all goes as planed the boat will be in the water
within the next 12 months.

If I had it to do over, I would just but a boat and go sailing.
Good luck,
Leonard

I will have to agree with Leonard and had similar experience in building my
last boat. It is an Ingrid 38 (from bare hull).
http://www.hctc.com/~esteve/hull53.htm

Since I started with a bare fiberglass hull, I would imagine the process
would be very similar to your plans with an alloy hull.

A point I might add is the temptation to purchase electronics gear before
you are ready for launch.. The cost of elex. drops considerably each year
and as launch dates (year) slip year after year the crisp new electronics of
several years ago sit in the shelf and loose their value. My boat was
launched 3 years ago and I'm already upgrading. Resist the boat show
promotions/sales and the temptation.

As Leonard points out, it is difficult to find reliable help and even family
members begin to loose interest when a project goes on for years. Most
non-boaters can't imagine working on a boat for 7 years, as I did.

I did 99.9% of my own work, including welding and machine shop work. Only at
the end, I farmed out the bow pulpit to a shop who's owner was (suppose) to
be a friend and needed the work. Paid $1000 for it and he screwed it up and
I ended up doing it over myself. (no longer a friend)

I also farmed out the rigging swedging since that required special tools
for rod rigging.

Admittedly, work goes slooooower when you do everything for yourself and all
work stops when ever you sit down for a cool drink or go to town to get
material.

When ever you have someone else performing a task for you, it is difficult
to convey what is in your "minds-eye" to another.

I have no regrets, I just wish I could have put "Old-on-Hold" during the
process.. I had built a 36 ft. planked hull in the early '60s and even
though I was in the navy at the time, I made much faster progress. I
attribute that to my youth and the ability to work 18 hour days.

Aside from the above, I encourage you to learn all the crafts involved and
be prepared for the 'loooong' process.

My experience and opinions. FWIW

Good luck.

Steve
s/v Good Intentions


"Leonard" wrote in message
oups.com...
Tomek,
I have been in the process of building a Roberts 53G. I started from
the bare plans and had to do all the work alone. You won't believe how
hard it is to find people willing to work (a four letter word here in
Arkansas). I was lucky enough to find some latinos who give an honest
days work at a fair price to do the roughing out of the inside
building.

I started in August 1991 and as I said I started from the ground up. I
have a little over 1900 hours with a lot of lost time due to injuries.
This is NOT a cheap operation. At present I have put in just over
$107,000 into it. That includes an engine and many more items that are
required on a boat. If all goes as planed the boat will be in the water
within the next 12 months.

If I had it to do over, I would just but a boat and go sailing.
Good luck,
Leonard

There are a whole bunch of guys who've built great boats from kits or
plans all over North America. Some of them are crap, others scrap.
Many will never see the water. But a fair number are very well done,
very well thought out, and (particularly with the metal boats), very
well prepped and coated against corrosion.

The trouble is that such boats frequently get to the 90% finished
stage (like roughed in benches and cabinetry, but with mast bought and
engine running) and the man who lovingly started the job has gotten
too old, sick and/or tired to finish it.

Or too old, sick and/or tired to sail such a bg, heavy boat.

Or his wife and family aren't behind him and want to get rid of the
"white elephant" in the yard in favour of a cute gazebo and an
extended car port.

Want to know my dirty little secret? I will buy one of those boats
for a song before I'm 50, pay some pro to do a custom FUNCTIONAL
interior using just part of the money I saved not buying a brokerage
boat, and we will go cruising in five years, not when I'm 68 and not
keen on getting into a lazarette to find a dropped wrench.

The boat ads are full of them. Most aren't worth finishing; a prime
few are better than 90% of new boats in terms of layout, logical
stowage, access and seaworthiness.

I don't want to burst any bubbles, but if you are a 28 year old
welder, by all means build a boat. You might be finished in 20 years.
It makes more sense in some cases to complete a stranger's "baby" to
perfection than to put in a few thousand hours learning as you go, or
becoming a slave to a dream.

Better to go sailing sooner than later.

My two cents,

R.

On 25 Jan 2005 06:38:59 -0800, "Leonard" wrote:

Tomek,
I have been in the process of building a Roberts 53G. I started from
the bare plans and had to do all the work alone. You won't believe how
hard it is to find people willing to work (a four letter word here in
Arkansas). I was lucky enough to find some latinos who give an honest
days work at a fair price to do the roughing out of the inside
building.

I started in August 1991 and as I said I started from the ground up. I
have a little over 1900 hours with a lot of lost time due to injuries.
This is NOT a cheap operation. At present I have put in just over
$107,000 into it. That includes an engine and many more items that are
required on a boat. If all goes as planed the boat will be in the water
within the next 12 months.

If I had it to do over, I would just but a boat and go sailing.
Good luck,
Leonard

On 25 Jan 2005 06:38:59 -0800, "Leonard" vaguely
proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Ahhh! But you have to rmember that you have _built_ one now....

I feel the same, sort of, having built. I probably would do it again.
But you have to allow for the achievement factor.
If I had it to do over, I would just but a boat and go sailing.
Good luck,
Leonard

On 25 Jan 2005 06:38:59 -0800, "Leonard" vaguely
proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Tomek,
I have been in the process of building a Roberts 53G. I started from
the bare plans and had to do all the work alone. You won't believe how
hard it is to find people willing to work (a four letter word here in
Arkansas). I was lucky enough to find some latinos who give an honest
days work at a fair price to do the roughing out of the inside
building.

hmm...would _you_ work on somebody else's dream for what you paid
those guys?

I started in August 1991 and as I said I started from the ground up. I
have a little over 1900 hours with a lot of lost time due to injuries.

Injuries while building? Onsite injuries?

Old Nick,

I really don't know what you are asking. As stated, finding people to
to do what you would call a side job is hard. Most people are looking
for long term employment with benifits.

One gent accepted the job of welding the outside seams on the steel
plates. A few days after he was to start, he called and decided it was
too much work for him. (he only works one day a week at his regular
job) So I did it myself.

As far as "hmm...would _you_ work on somebody else's dream for what you
paid those guys?" $15per hour x 3 people x 8 hours a day works out to a
nice weekend job. If I could help someone out at the same rete, you bet
I would. His dream or not is not the question. Finding workers is.

To answer your "Injuries while building? Onsite injuries?". Yes and no.
I am a retired Marine with a 60% service connected disibility. You
figure out which is which. When you come up with an answer let me know.
Leonard

On 27 Jan 2005 06:57:39 -0800, "Leonard" vaguely
proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email
I really don't know what you are asking. As stated, finding people to
to do what you would call a side job is hard. Most people are looking
for long term employment with benifits.

Yep. So you have to pay the rates, or get the latinos.


One gent accepted the job of welding the outside seams on the steel
plates. A few days after he was to start, he called and decided it was
too much work for him. (he only works one day a week at his regular
job) So I did it myself.

I can see that would be irritating. But maybe he realised he was not
getting enough out of it. Maybe not.

As far as "hmm...would _you_ work on somebody else's dream for what you
paid those guys?" $15per hour x 3 people x 8 hours a day works out to a
nice weekend job. If I could help someone out at the same rete, you bet
I would. His dream or not is not the question. Finding workers is.

Work for $15 per hour was what I meant. Not times 3 guys.

The dream is at issue. There is a lot of difference between working on
something you believe on and something you have tyo do for the money.

These guys are not there "to help you out". They are not your pals,
and nor are they charitable institutiuons.

Finding workers is usually possible if you pay enough. Before you
complain about what people want, think about whether you would work
for the same pay, on a job you were not interested in beyond the
money.

Old Nick,
Why don't you learn to think before you open your mouth.

If you could read, and undrestand basic math you would see that I said
I paid $15 an hour per person. ($15x3x8) = $15 per hour (per person) x
3 people x 8 hours per day. If you can find 3 people willing to work
for a total of $15 an hour just sent them over to me.

Dreams have nothing to do with a job. Did you ever work? Was it your
dream job? Did you just work for the money? No need to answer the
question. Everyone already knows the answer.

Latino's seem to be the only people willing to put in an honest days
work. They already have day jobs and only work side jobs on weekends.
Why they work so hard and what they set the price at is their busness,
not mine. Americans had that work ethic at one time, but those days
seem to be long gone.

When was the last time you worked? What is wrong with a $15 an hour
side job? I can remember when auto workers took a pay cut to a mear $27
an hour just to keep the company going.

If you are just some troll out to make a fool out of yourself, don't
bother me with your stupidity.

Leonard wrote:
... Americans had that work ethic at one time, but those days
seem to be long gone.

Thank goodness... most of the Yankees who move here complain that
Southerners don't have any work ethic. I'm so relieved to hear it's true
of all Americans.

DSK

On 31 Jan 2005 06:53:57 -0800, "Leonard" vaguely
proposed a theory
.......and in reply I say!:

remove ns from my header address to reply via email

Old Nick,
Why don't you learn to think before you open your mouth.

If you could read, and undrestand basic math you would see that I said
I paid $15 an hour per person. ($15x3x8) = $15 per hour (per person) x
3 people x 8 hours per day. If you can find 3 people willing to work
for a total of $15 an hour just sent them over to me.

Why don't you learn to read. It is easy to interpret that you would
work for $15 X 3 dolars per hour. You said that 15 x 3 x x hours per
day was a good job to work at.


Dreams have nothing to do with a job. Did you ever work? Was it your
dream job? Did you just work for the money? No need to answer the
question. Everyone already knows the answer.

Many people who have a dream seem to forget that other people _will_
be working for money. They want to pay peanuts and wonder why nobody
is interested.

Well I don't. I worked for money and for dreams. but these guys are
working just for the money. They could not give a rat's about your
boat. Get it? The ony reason you got some poor bloody South of the
border guys was because they could get nothing else.


Latino's seem to be the only people willing to put in an honest days
work. They already have day jobs and only work side jobs on weekends.
Why they work so hard and what they set the price at is their busness,
not mine. Americans had that work ethic at one time, but those days
seem to be long gone.


When was the last time you worked?

WTF has that got to do with it? What about you? When did you last work
for $15 / hour on someone else's job. I work for _nothing_ most of the
time, because I am pursuing a dream. It is not a boat, but it has been
in the past. I have worked a few for $10 / hour for a whole weekend
for a _friend_, to help their dream. But I am not about to rush about
doing it for everybody.

What is wrong with a $15 an hour
side job?

When did _you_ last do a lot of weekends at $15 / hour?

I can remember when auto workers took a pay cut to a mear $27
an hour just to keep the company going.

So there you go. Pay $27/hour.


If you are just some troll out to make a fool out of yourself, don't
bother me with your stupidity.

No. I reacted badly to your bad-ass assertions about lazy people, when
I think you need a reality check. Make blatantly judgemental comments
and take what you get. You started this track of discussion.