Okey... it should be above the center of traft...

But, when going with the wind.... if I remember right some dingheis then dip
the front (bow?) . Does the mast position front or back matter in this
case... or others?

Comments appreciated


Morgan O.

you move yourself a bit further back, or just lean back, to compensate.

a small boat running downwind tries to turn quickly into a gust of wind
("broaching"). you have to sit aft to windward and hold onto the sail
or let it out. if you hold onto the sail and fight the gust, and if the
gust dies suddenly, and if you cannot move fast enough to balance the
boat, you can capsize to windward. all part of the fun and challenge of
small boat sailing.

Morgan Ohlson ) writes:
Okey... it should be above the center of traft...

But, when going with the wind.... if I remember right some dingheis then dip
the front (bow?) . Does the mast position front or back matter in this
case... or others?

Comments appreciated


Morgan O.


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On 26 Aug 2004 14:18:11 GMT, William R. Watt wrote:

you move yourself a bit further back, or just lean back, to compensate.

a small boat running downwind tries to turn quickly into a gust of wind
("broaching"). you have to sit aft to windward and hold onto the sail
or let it out. if you hold onto the sail and fight the gust, and if the
gust dies suddenly, and if you cannot move fast enough to balance the
boat, you can capsize to windward. all part of the fun and challenge of
small boat sailing.

Not when it's stuffed with equippment, cameras and alike /

But if we look upon the question of mast position... lets say for
conveniance... (read sailing safety and /or speed)

Is it easier to handle a boat with mast to the rear or front? or design it
properly to allow that position?


Morgan O.


Morgan Ohlson ) writes:
Okey... it should be above the center of traft...

But, when going with the wind.... if I remember right some dingheis then dip
the front (bow?) . Does the mast position front or back matter in this
case... or others?

Comments appreciated


Morgan O.

Morgan Ohlson ) writes:

Is it easier to handle a boat with mast to the rear or front? or design it
properly to allow that position?

no difference to sail balance.

it can make a difference to sail performance. it helps if sail is clear
of anyone sitting in the boat. also when pulled in to close hauled
position sailing upwind the back of the sail should not be near anybody
sitting in the boat who would interfere with the flow of air over the
sail. the winds should pass freely over the sail and off the back end.

yes, an important consideration is sail handling. the sailor has to be
able to raise and lower the sail and make adjustments such as untangling
fouled lines. When I sailing my small boats on small lakes and rivers I
frequently reach forward to lift the mast and sail out of the boat, roll
them up, and paddle instead. This is easy to do with a sprit sail. On
larger sprit sails some people add a line called a brailing line to lift
the sprit up to the mast so the sail can be rolled up. Two books by TF
Jones explain quite a bit about sprit sails for small boats. The Ottawa
public library has both books.

When the mast is put at the bow it's to get it out of the way. It pretty
well has to be an unstayed mast, ie no lines holding it up. And there is n
no room for a jib. The mast has to go at the bow on my 7.5 ft boat to make
room for me to be in the boat. On a small boat the crew has to sit in the
middle of the boat so it floats level. The back half of the boat is empty.
That's where I put a backpack with food, water, camera, jacket, etc.

On the two small sailboats I've designed and built one sail is right at
the bow and the other is about 1/3 of the way back from the bow. Both sail
fine. You can find many boats with sails at the bow, New England catboats are
one example although they have another factor governing the size and
location of the sail. They are very fat boats and need a big sail.

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On 27 Aug 2004 13:14:00 GMT, William R. Watt wrote:

Morgan Ohlson ) writes:

Is it easier to handle a boat with mast to the rear or front? or design it
properly to allow that position?

no difference to sail balance.


Boats with a Cat rig have a tendencie towards max beam and max draft closer
to the bow.

....that must be because of the mast weight, isn't it?

A difference in sailpower between a front or rear mast position is the roll
forces applied.

....I realised recently.


Morgan O.

Morgab Ohlson says (and I may misquote due to an eccentric quoting style used
previously):

Boats with a Cat rig have a tendencie towards max beam and max draft closer
to the bow.

...that must be because of the mast weight, isn't it?

More probably because that was the "right" shape for a boat during the years
(hundreds of them) the cat rig developed - as for the draft, that is usually
deeper at the stern, unless you are talking purely about the canoe body, in
which case it is all part of the "wider section, deeper section" thing.

A difference in sailpower between a front or rear mast position is the roll
forces applied.

Do tell. Roll forces should be identical, although the yawing forces as a
result of position will change. So will the overall balance of the boat, big
time.
Look in Chappelle sometime, and compare the underwater parts of catboats to
schooners. See what I mean?

Steve

Steve
Stephen C. Baker - Yacht Designer
http://members.aol.com/SailDesign/pr...cbweb/home.htm

Stephen Baker ) writes:
Morgab Ohlson says (and I may misquote due to an eccentric quoting style used
previously):

Boats with a Cat rig have a tendencie towards max beam and max draft closer
to the bow.

...that must be because of the mast weight, isn't it?

More probably because that was the "right" shape for a boat during the years
(hundreds of them) the cat rig developed - as for the draft, that is usually

I suspect the big volume hull came first for roomy comfort or cargo
capacity, then the oversized cat sail stepped out of the way in the bow to
get enough power to push all that hull through the water, and the big
"barn door" rudder to try and steer the thing. they still heel over and
stop so you give up something in sailing characteristics for the high
volume hull.

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On Fri, 08 Oct 2004 07:25:53 GMT, Morgan Ohlson
wrote:

Boats with a Cat rig have a tendencie towards max beam and max draft closer
to the bow.

=============================

Since the center of effort (CE) is further forward on a cat rig, the
center of lateral resistance (CLR) needs to be further forward also in
order to keep the boat balanced.

This thread has reached a new high in the concentration of uniformed twaddle.
Fellas, get the books that treat sailboat design well: Chappelle, Skene's
(Kinney), Dave Gerr, Ted Brewer are a good start.

Morgan Ohlson wrote:

On 27 Aug 2004 13:14:00 GMT, William R. Watt wrote:

Morgan Ohlson ) writes:

Is it easier to handle a boat with mast to the rear or front? or design it
properly to allow that position?

no difference to sail balance.


Boats with a Cat rig have a tendencie towards max beam and max draft closer
to the bow.

...that must be because of the mast weight, isn't it?

A difference in sailpower between a front or rear mast position is the roll
forces applied.

...I realised recently.

Morgan O.

Jim Conlin says:

This thread has reached a new high in the concentration of uniformed twaddle.

I'm going to hope you're wearing fireproof undies, Jim. ;-)

Steve "wonders if he's included in the above - planning revenge if so..."