On Dec 3, 1:54*pm, Heikki wrote:
max camirand wrote:
I'm looking for a real gimballed marine compass, with a flat face
usable with a direction-finder.

You don't say where in the world you are. Here in Denmark, my first choice
would be Weilbach in Copenhagen - they've been in the business of compasses,
charts, etc since 1755 or so. I have sailed on a ship that has one of their
compasses, gimballed and with a flat face. Haven't tried with a direction-
finder, but it looks like it ought to work well. Big thing, probably
approved to be used on much bigger ships that ours...

http://www.weilbach.dk/netbutik.asp?...fold4479&l=155

-H

Thanks for the link!
Sorry for the oversight: The boat is in Seattle, USA.
Those compasses look excellent, but they're very expensive. Maybe I
shouldn't have any illusions about getting a good compass for little
money, but I hope I can find a commercial ship outfitter that carries
a decent product at non-yacht prices.

-m

max camirand wrote:
On Dec 3, 1:54 pm, Heikki wrote:
max camirand wrote:
I'm looking for a real gimballed marine compass, with a flat face
usable with a direction-finder.
You don't say where in the world you are. Here in Denmark, my first choice
would be Weilbach in Copenhagen - they've been in the business of compasses,
charts, etc since 1755 or so. I have sailed on a ship that has one of their
compasses, gimballed and with a flat face. Haven't tried with a direction-
finder, but it looks like it ought to work well. Big thing, probably
approved to be used on much bigger ships that ours...

http://www.weilbach.dk/netbutik.asp?...fold4479&l=155

-H

Thanks for the link!
Sorry for the oversight: The boat is in Seattle, USA.
Those compasses look excellent, but they're very expensive. Maybe I
shouldn't have any illusions about getting a good compass for little
money, but I hope I can find a commercial ship outfitter that carries
a decent product at non-yacht prices.

-m

Try this carefully crafted google search
http://www.google.com/search?q=marine+%22grid+compass

Unfortunately I have yet to see one in decent condition at a good enough
price. If you have around $100 you *might* get lucky with a used one

Ships will all be using gyrocompasses or fluxgates now. Your only
chance of beating yachtie pricing would be if you know a shipbreakers
who are currently scrapping an old fishing fleet.

--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & 32K emails -- NUL:

On Dec 3, 2:38*pm, IanM wrote:
max camirand wrote:
On Dec 3, 1:54 pm, Heikki wrote:
max camirand wrote:
I'm looking for a real gimballed marine compass, with a flat face
usable with a direction-finder.
You don't say where in the world you are. Here in Denmark, my first choice
would be Weilbach in Copenhagen - they've been in the business of compasses,
charts, etc since 1755 or so. I have sailed on a ship that has one of their
compasses, gimballed and with a flat face. Haven't tried with a direction-
finder, but it looks like it ought to work well. Big thing, probably
approved to be used on much bigger ships that ours...

http://www.weilbach.dk/netbutik.asp?...fold4479&l=155

-H

Thanks for the link!
Sorry for the oversight: The boat is in Seattle, USA.
Those compasses look excellent, but they're very expensive. Maybe I
shouldn't have any illusions about getting a good compass for little
money, but I hope I can find a commercial ship outfitter that carries
a decent product at non-yacht prices.

-m

Try this carefully crafted google search
http://www.google.com/search?q=marine+%22grid+compass

Unfortunately I have yet to see one in decent condition at a good enough
price. *If you have around $100 you *might* get lucky with a used one

Ships will all be using gyrocompasses or fluxgates now. *Your only
chance of beating yachtie pricing would be if you know a shipbreakers
who are currently scrapping an old fishing fleet.

--
Ian Malcolm. * London, ENGLAND. *(NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & 32K emails -- NUL:

Ah-ha, I didn't know they were called grid compasses. Large ships are
still built with magnetic compasses, even today (source: I am a
merchant marine officer). We don't ever /use/ them, but they're there,
on the monkey bridge, viewable from below at the wheel. As you
mentioned, all merchant ships are now primarily using gyrocompasses.

Good idea about looking for old fishing vessels. They're likely to
have something.

My other option is to get a "regular" compass and then whittle up a
direction finder on a fixed card in order to get a relative bearing
and mathematically apply it to the boat's compass heading and get the
compass bearing that way. Or maybe I'm just dumb for wanting to
navigate without electronic aids.

-m

In article b4a50597-29a2-419f-b9fa-
,
says...

On Dec 3, 2:38*pm, IanM wrote:
max camirand wrote:
On Dec 3, 1:54 pm, Heikki wrote:
max camirand wrote:
I'm looking for a real gimballed marine compass, with a flat face
usable with a direction-finder.
You don't say where in the world you are. Here in Denmark, my first choice
would be Weilbach in Copenhagen - they've been in the business of compasses,
charts, etc since 1755 or so. I have sailed on a ship that has one of their
compasses, gimballed and with a flat face. Haven't tried with a direction-
finder, but it looks like it ought to work well. Big thing, probably
approved to be used on much bigger ships that ours...

http://www.weilbach.dk/netbutik.asp?...fold4479&l=155

-H

Thanks for the link!
Sorry for the oversight: The boat is in Seattle, USA.
Those compasses look excellent, but they're very expensive. Maybe I
shouldn't have any illusions about getting a good compass for little
money, but I hope I can find a commercial ship outfitter that carries
a decent product at non-yacht prices.

-m

Try this carefully crafted google search
http://www.google.com/search?q=marine+%22grid+compass

Unfortunately I have yet to see one in decent condition at a good enough
price. *If you have around $100 you *might* get lucky with a used one

Ships will all be using gyrocompasses or fluxgates now. *Your only
chance of beating yachtie pricing would be if you know a shipbreakers
who are currently scrapping an old fishing fleet.

--
Ian Malcolm. * London, ENGLAND. *(NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & 32K emails -- NUL:

Ah-ha, I didn't know they were called grid compasses. Large ships are
still built with magnetic compasses, even today (source: I am a
merchant marine officer). We don't ever /use/ them, but they're there,
on the monkey bridge, viewable from below at the wheel. As you
mentioned, all merchant ships are now primarily using gyrocompasses.

Good idea about looking for old fishing vessels. They're likely to
have something.

My other option is to get a "regular" compass and then whittle up a
direction finder on a fixed card in order to get a relative bearing
and mathematically apply it to the boat's compass heading and get the
compass bearing that way. Or maybe I'm just dumb for wanting to
navigate without electronic aids.

-m

Not dumb at all. It is a skill, you desire to get better at it. It all
just depends on how far you want to go with your sport

On Dec 3, 4:42*pm, I am Tosk wrote:

Not dumb at all. It is a skill, you desire to get better at it. It all
just depends on how far you want to go with your sport

I'll keep a handheld GPS onboard in case I get hopelessly lost in an
emergency situation

Otherwise, I'm limiting myself to:
lead line
rotator log
compass
sextant
timepiece
binoculars

I'm a merchant marine officer, so I studied navigation professionally
(both the "old" and "new" ways), and GPS has made the job a boring
button-pushing nightmare. I'd like to get away from that on my yacht.
I have no illusions about "going back to nature" or any garbage like
that. Slocum didn't have an accurate timepiece, while I will have one,
and the Polynesians only had some cleverly marked sticks. It's just
that I love navigation and I feel GPS takes all of the magic away from
making landfall. Going back to the methods of the 1800s will at least
involve some level of skill.

Too bad it's more expensive to do things the traditional way.

max camirand wrote:
On Dec 3, 4:42 pm, I am Tosk wrote:

Not dumb at all. It is a skill, you desire to get better at it. It all
just depends on how far you want to go with your sport

I'll keep a handheld GPS onboard in case I get hopelessly lost in an
emergency situation

Otherwise, I'm limiting myself to:
lead line
rotator log
compass
sextant
timepiece
binoculars

I'm a merchant marine officer, so I studied navigation professionally
(both the "old" and "new" ways), and GPS has made the job a boring
button-pushing nightmare. I'd like to get away from that on my yacht.
I have no illusions about "going back to nature" or any garbage like
that. Slocum didn't have an accurate timepiece, while I will have one,
and the Polynesians only had some cleverly marked sticks. It's just
that I love navigation and I feel GPS takes all of the magic away from
making landfall. Going back to the methods of the 1800s will at least
involve some level of skill.

Too bad it's more expensive to do things the traditional way.

I have nothing against doing "real" navigation. That and the paper
charts still work after a lighting strike. (The story is good, plan on
buying at least three rounds of beer if you want to hear it all.)

Prowl the chandlers and set traps on E-bay. You might get lucky. We
that are old enough to use that stuff are dying off fast and the kids
don't want it.

Might I suggest that you get a decent box compass. They are all flat
top, but that doesn't matter. Also get a pair of binoculars with a
bearing compass in them.

A Sextant is neat, mine is Bendix Mark2. Been in the family since
WWII. I Dread to think what any decent device would cost if you could
find it. A friend has a more modern one with a half silvered front
mirror. I just can't make it pull down right. Maybe if I was used to it.

If you want a mechanical chronometer, good luck, they are collectors
items. A good modern wrist watch will work as well if it is kept at a
more or less constant temperature. You rate it - just like always.

Are going to do any long passages off soundings? Because, a taffrail
log is a serious PITA and when you see the shark that snatches the
spinner, you can kiss that one good-by.

Lead lines are an another amazing PITA. Pretty much useless if you are
single handing. Lots of them around and often for the price of the lead.

I wish you fair wind and smooth sea.

Matt Colie - Lifelong Waterman, Licensed Mariner (also- 40++ years) and
Perpetual Sailor.

On Dec 3, 6:15*pm, matt_colie wrote:
max camirand wrote:
On Dec 3, 4:42 pm, I am Tosk wrote:

Not dumb at all. It is a skill, you desire to get better at it. It all
just depends on how far you want to go with your sport

I'll keep a handheld GPS onboard in case I get hopelessly lost in an
emergency situation

Otherwise, I'm limiting myself to:
lead line
rotator log
compass
sextant
timepiece
binoculars

I'm a merchant marine officer, so I studied navigation professionally
(both the "old" and "new" ways), and GPS has made the job a boring
button-pushing nightmare. I'd like to get away from that on my yacht.
I have no illusions about "going back to nature" or any garbage like
that. Slocum didn't have an accurate timepiece, while I will have one,
and the Polynesians only had some cleverly marked sticks. It's just
that I love navigation and I feel GPS takes all of the magic away from
making landfall. Going back to the methods of the 1800s will at least
involve some level of skill.

Too bad it's more expensive to do things the traditional way.

I have nothing against doing "real" navigation. *That and the paper
charts still work after a lighting strike. *(The story is good, plan on
buying at least three rounds of beer if you want to hear it all.)

Prowl the chandlers and set traps on E-bay. *You might get lucky. *We
that are old enough to use that stuff are dying off fast and the kids
don't want it.

Might I suggest that you get a decent box compass. *They are all flat
top, but that doesn't matter. *Also get a pair of binoculars with a
bearing compass in them.

* *A Sextant is neat, mine is Bendix Mark2. *Been in the family since
WWII. *I Dread to think what any decent device would cost if you could
find it. *A friend has a more modern one with a half silvered front
mirror. *I just can't make it pull down right. *Maybe if I was used to it.

If you want a mechanical chronometer, good luck, they are collectors
items. *A good modern wrist watch will work as well if it is kept at a
more or less constant temperature. *You rate it - just like always.

Are going to do any long passages off soundings? *Because, a taffrail
log is a serious PITA and when you see the shark that snatches the
spinner, you can kiss that one good-by.

Lead lines are an another amazing PITA. *Pretty much useless if you are
single handing. *Lots of them around and often for the price of the lead.

I wish you fair wind and smooth sea.

Matt Colie - Lifelong Waterman, Licensed Mariner (also- 40++ years) and
Perpetual Sailor.

Matt,

Thanks for the tips. I've never used a taffrail log before. I've only
seen them in the movies and read about them. If I recall correctly,
Slocum's spinner was eaten by a shark, as you say. As they seem really
expensive anyway, I suppose I could just estimate my run by taking
speed every watch or every change of weather.

We will be doing many off-soundings passages, but I will never be
single-handing them. I'm not comfortable with nobody being on watch. I
don't scoff at those who do single-hand, but I find it hard to feel
sorry for them when they get run down by ships, because they were
knowingly ignoring collision regulations. They're just looking for
trouble. We're a crew of two (my lovely chief mate and myself), and
we'll try to take on an extra hand for any passage longer than a week
or so, when possible.

I'll probably buy one of the better plastic sextants, because I've
heard they're not so bad (certainly better than some of the crappy
ones I encounter on ships), and the difference in price will be better
spent elsewhere. I know, I know, good instruments are a joy to work
with, but if I splurge for the best in every department, I'll never
get to sailing. A 50$ wris****ch set to GMT makes for a fine
chronometer, and large black-and-white photocopies of someone else's
charts are 8$. I'm not retired nor sitting on a pile of money, so I
have to settle for "good enough" rather than "ideal". You mentioned
that the kids don't want anything to do with traditional navigation...
don't believe in stereotypes; I'm not yet thirty.

-m