Capt. JG wrote:
Yes, you read the subject right.
....
He graduated at the bottom of his Annapolis class, where he had a
reputation for being the leader of the troublemakers. He became a fighter
pilot.
....

John McCain was NOT a fighter pilot. He never trained on a fighter, was
never trained in air-to-air combat, he never flew a fighter, he was
never in a dog-fight. He was not a fighter pilot.

"jeff" wrote in message
. ..
Capt. JG wrote:
Yes, you read the subject right.
...
He graduated at the bottom of his Annapolis class, where he had a
reputation for being the leader of the troublemakers. He became a fighter
pilot.
...

John McCain was NOT a fighter pilot. He never trained on a fighter, was
never trained in air-to-air combat, he never flew a fighter, he was never
in a dog-fight. He was not a fighter pilot.


I stand corrected.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"jeff" wrote in message
. ..
Capt. JG wrote:
Yes, you read the subject right.
...
He graduated at the bottom of his Annapolis class, where he had a
reputation for being the leader of the troublemakers. He became a fighter
pilot.
...

John McCain was NOT a fighter pilot. He never trained on a fighter, was
never trained in air-to-air combat, he never flew a fighter, he was never
in a dog-fight. He was not a fighter pilot.

But yet he carried AIM-9 missiles. Yet there were 4 fighter squadrons of
A-4.

http://www.skyhawk.org/2e/navy.htm


Are you sure?

"jeff" wrote in message
. ..
Capt. JG wrote:
Yes, you read the subject right.
...
He graduated at the bottom of his Annapolis class, where he had a
reputation for being the leader of the troublemakers. He became a fighter
pilot.
...

John McCain was NOT a fighter pilot. He never trained on a fighter, was
never trained in air-to-air combat, he never flew a fighter, he was never
in a dog-fight. He was not a fighter pilot.

Air combat maneuvering is part of the tailhook syllabus:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_..._Naval_Aviator

McCain did receive fighter pilot training.

Dave wrote:
On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 19:03:33 -0400, jeff said:

He graduated at the bottom of his Annapolis class, where he had a
reputation for being the leader of the troublemakers. He became a fighter
pilot.
...

John McCain was NOT a fighter pilot. He never trained on a fighter, was
never trained in air-to-air combat, he never flew a fighter, he was
never in a dog-fight. He was not a fighter pilot.

I take it you wish us to infer

Why would I want you to infer anything? I'm just stating a fact.

that bomber pilots are cowardly, whereas
fighter pilots are brave? That the other side only shot at fighters, and not
at bombers?

It is the McCain supporters that want us to infer that he was like Tom
Cruise in Top Gun (call sign Maverick) when he was not.

Gimme a break.

Why? Does the truth hurt that bad? You seem very sensitive about this.

"jeff" wrote in message
. ..
Dave wrote:
On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 19:03:33 -0400, jeff said:

He graduated at the bottom of his Annapolis class, where he had a
reputation for being the leader of the troublemakers. He became a
fighter pilot.
...

John McCain was NOT a fighter pilot. He never trained on a fighter, was
never trained in air-to-air combat, he never flew a fighter, he was
never in a dog-fight. He was not a fighter pilot.

I take it you wish us to infer

Why would I want you to infer anything? I'm just stating a fact.

that bomber pilots are cowardly, whereas
fighter pilots are brave? That the other side only shot at fighters, and
not
at bombers?

It is the McCain supporters that want us to infer that he was like Tom
Cruise in Top Gun (call sign Maverick) when he was not.

Gimme a break.

Why? Does the truth hurt that bad? You seem very sensitive about this.


Dave is very sensitive after learning that Bush wasn't quite the fighter
jock he made him self out to be.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 9 Sep 2008 19:23:33 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

Dave is very sensitive after learning that Bush wasn't quite the fighter
jock he made him self out to be.

Hey Jon, somebody needs to tell you and your boy that there isn't anybody
named Bush running this time. Never woulda guessed it from the Dems
convention, though.


Bush and McCain have mostly the same policies, so I don't think it's much of
a stretch if I happen to confuse the two.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Dave wrote:
On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 21:46:24 -0400, jeff said:

John McCain was NOT a fighter pilot. He never trained on a fighter, was
never trained in air-to-air combat, he never flew a fighter, he was
never in a dog-fight. He was not a fighter pilot.
I take it you wish us to infer
Why would I want you to infer anything? I'm just stating a fact.

I was wondering the same thing myself. Why are you making an issue of this
distinction without a difference? Particularly since you state with such
confidence that he was not a fighter pilot, without completing the thought
by saying he was a bomber pilot? Might that indicate some kind of an agenda?
Nah.

I am merely a seeker of the truth. You seem to think that the paramount
issue is some question of bravery, as though any comment about his past
must be interpreted as a comment on his heroism.


that bomber pilots are cowardly, whereas
fighter pilots are brave? That the other side only shot at fighters, and not
at bombers?
It is the McCain supporters that want us to infer that he was like Tom
Cruise in Top Gun (call sign Maverick) when he was not.

Perhaps I've missed it but I haven't seen any such thing.

Yes, I suppose it would be easy to miss the work "Maverick" associated
with McCain. And you must have not read a paper in the last 20 years or
so, because he's repeatedly been referred to as a fighter pilot.

He flew a plane
over N. Vietnam. He was doing something that cause the other guys to shoot
at him. (Are you going to make a thing about the fact that it was missiles
rather than bullets they shot?) They hit him, and he had to bail out and was
captured. Of what relevance is it that he was flying one type of plane
rather than another? None that I can see.

I said nothing about all the these facts, yet you have not missed the
opportunity to bring them up. Perhaps you're the one with an agenda?

OK, I'll let you win this: being shot down means that John McCain is the
Bravest Man Ever To Fight For This Or Any Country.

So what about my Father-in-Law? He served in the Merchant Marine, was
chased into ice fields by U-boats, strafed by fighters, survived PQ-17
and PQ-18, and eventually was torpedoed and spent 17 days in a liferaft.
And guess what? He wasn't made president! I guess he wasn't brave
enough. (In fact, the VFW and American Legion blocked attempts to give
the MM benefits because they considered them draft dodgers.)


Gimme a break.
Why? Does the truth hurt that bad? You seem very sensitive about this.

Not at all. It's just that your trying to make such a big deal out of a
distinction without a difference is so obviously disingenuous.

Obvious to who? What seems obvious to me is that McCain is too honest
to refer to himself as a "fighter pilot," but the GOP loves the Top Gun
image. Somehow the concept of fighting mano-a-mano in the sky is more
appealing than dropping napalm and cluster bombs.

Personally, I believe McCain is an honorable and brave man, who
performed heroic service to his country. However, this does not by
itself mean he has any specific qualifications to be president, any more
than my FiL did. I feel insulted when his campaign issues statement
like the one after the "cone of silence" episode: "[t]he insinuation
from the Obama campaign that John McCain, a former prisoner of war,
cheated is outrageous." What does that mean? Than because he was a
POW, his Karl Rove trained staff would not have said at the last minute,
"You may be asked something like ..."? In fact, protestations like that
convinced me that his team did cheat, and they are hiding behind the
"POW Shield."

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 11:26:58 -0400, jeff said:

his Karl Rove trained staff

Q.E.D.


Do you deny that he had a hand in defaming McCain in 2000? Do you think the
people trained in his style of propaganda aren't advising currently?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On 10 Sep, 00:49, Dave wrote:

I take it you wish us to infer that bomber pilots are cowardly, whereas
fighter pilots are brave? That the other side only shot at fighters, and not
at bombers?

Gimme a break.

Hi Dave. I think that this is the first time that
we have conversed. My name is Donal, and I am a
foreigner, so please go easy on me.

It seems to me that a bomber pilot has to fly from "A" to
"B" and drop his bombs.

A fighter pilot has to react to events as they unfold.

You can pre-plan the bomber pilot's misson, but
you have to allow the fighter pilot to use his own
judgement.


To illustrate the point, I invite you to consider the
situation where G W Bush is in command of a bomber.
If he were given sufficient training, then he could probably
find his way to the target.

Try to imagine him in charge of a fighter!! Just picture
that idiot trying to change course at short notice.

C'mon, you must see that there is a difference between
bomber and fighter pilots?


Regards


Donal
--