Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

He admits it:

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09...ildest-dreams/


Now will he admit he may have judged the war incorrectly, whereas McCain
called it correctly from the beginning?

How many more blunders of judgement does Obama have in store for us?

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"Dave" wrote:

He was certainly a bit slow in admitting what most people have known for
some time.

O'Reilly asked him repeatedly, and I never heard him admit he made a
mistake. Maybe I need to get the transcript, but I was intensly listening
for those exact words, "I made a mistake" or "I was wrong in voting against
the surge", but I didn't hear anything that was close to ADMITTING what most
people have known for some time.

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 4 Sep 2008 19:06:53 -0600, "redbeard"
said:


He admits it:

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/09...ildest-dreams/


Now will he admit he may have judged the war incorrectly, whereas McCain
called it correctly from the beginning?

How many more blunders of judgement does Obama have in store for us?

He was certainly a bit slow in admitting what most people have known for
some time. But I will credit him with at least recognizing that he
couldn't
continue pushing his fairy tale indefinitely. And choosing O'Reilly as the
forum for coming clean was a smart move. Had he not changed at that point
he
couldn't have helped digging himself deeper into the hole under O'Reilly's
questioning.


O'Reilly? Now that guy is truly funny. Even Obama won't completely admit the
real reason why the "surge" hasn't worked (and it hasn't). The real reasons
are that we're now paying them not to fight with us (our tax dollars at
work), and bin laden's crowd has mostly moved back to the country between
Afganistan and Pakistan. Bush won't go after him there. Certainly, now with
the unstable Pakistan gov't, they won't either. McCain certainly won't. I
doubt Obama would either.

Perhaps the right-wingnuts can blame Obama for Iraq. I'm sure it's possible,
given that Community Organizer is a dirty phrase.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 10:24:16 -0500, "Rizzo" said:

I didn't hear anything that was close to ADMITTING what most
people have known for some time.

Can't give you the exact quote, but it was something like "the surge has
succeeded beyond my wildest expectations." Anyone who has been following
his
pronouncements should immediately recognize that as a 180 about face from
his earlier predictions that the surge would never work, and his later
"well, the Sunnis and the Shias still haven't started sitting down
together
and singing cumbya."


Here are some more 180s for you...

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/325.html

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

Whew, earth to Capt. JG, you are entering hyperspace!

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"jlrogers±³©" wrote in message
...
Whew, earth to Capt. JG, you are entering hyperspace!



So, you believe that bin laden's crowd hasn't moved back to Afganistan?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

On 5 Sep 2008 10:57:01 -0500, Dave wrote:

On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 10:24:16 -0500, "Rizzo" said:

I didn't hear anything that was close to ADMITTING what most
people have known for some time.

Can't give you the exact quote, but it was something like "the surge has
succeeded beyond my wildest expectations." Anyone who has been following his
pronouncements should immediately recognize that as a 180 about face from
his earlier predictions that the surge would never work, and his later
"well, the Sunnis and the Shias still haven't started sitting down together
and singing cumbya."

As a lawyer, you should realize that if the surge suceeded in even
some very minor way, it would have succeed beyond Obamas wildest
expectations.

Actually, I disagree with Obama on this anyway. The surge quelled
violence that we instigated, but did not accomplish the stated
mission. So it did "something", but it didn't do what it set out to
do. I don't call that success, regardless of who wants to say,
"Mission Accomplished".

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
easolutions...
"jlrogers±³©" wrote in message
...
Whew, earth to Capt. JG, you are entering hyperspace!



So, you believe that bin laden's crowd hasn't moved back to Afganistan?


If you believe it, does that make it a fact for everyone else?

You're getting nutty again.

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 05 Sep 2008 13:18:14 -0400, said:

As a lawyer, you should realize that if the surge suceeded in even
some very minor way, it would have succeed beyond Obamas wildest
expectations.

Yes. He was not just wrong. He was really really wrong.

Of course the hilarious part is that he also denies that his current
position is inconsistent with his earlier one.


Amazingly I agree with you. He's really wrong right now. The surge didn't
work. The terrorists just moved after we paid off the locals.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...24/ldt.01.html

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 11:58:10 -0500, "jlrogers±³©"
said:

Whew, earth to Capt. JG, you are entering hyperspace!

Not entering. Remember, Ganz is the one who's been claiming the economy
has
been constantly in the crapper for the last 8 years.


Yeah, the job numbers and inflation index that just came out prove me wrong!
LOL

Worst employment numbers in five years. Inflation on the rise. The mortgage
crisis getting worse, with no end in sight.

Drill, drill, drill... that'll fix it.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 09:16:44 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

given that Community Organizer is a dirty phrase.

Not a dirty phrase. A joke.


I guess that's true, except that's exactly what McCain called for in his
speech of speeches. He's a war hero; therefore, he must be right!

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

On 6 Sep 2008 12:41:01 -0500, Dave wrote:

On Fri, 05 Sep 2008 13:18:14 -0400, said:

As a lawyer, you should realize that if the surge suceeded in even
some very minor way, it would have succeed beyond Obamas wildest
expectations.

Yes. He was not just wrong. He was really really wrong.


No, he was really correct. The surge did not solve the problem it was
intended to solve. All it did was get us back to the level of violence
that existed before the U.S. actions escalated it. Sort of like the
Auto Glass repairman who goes around breaking windshields at night to
drum up business, or the volunteer fireman who torches buildings so he
can then pretend to be a hero.


Oh, yeah... this was all done using our children as cheap cannon
fodder.

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

On Sat, 6 Sep 2008 11:15:59 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Dave" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 09:16:44 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

given that Community Organizer is a dirty phrase.

Not a dirty phrase. A joke.


I guess that's true, except that's exactly what McCain called for in his
speech of speeches. He's a war hero; therefore, he must be right!

Did you hear? He was a POW!

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

wrote in message
...
On 6 Sep 2008 12:41:01 -0500, Dave wrote:

On Fri, 05 Sep 2008 13:18:14 -0400, said:

As a lawyer, you should realize that if the surge suceeded in even
some very minor way, it would have succeed beyond Obamas wildest
expectations.

Yes. He was not just wrong. He was really really wrong.


No, he was really correct. The surge did not solve the problem it was
intended to solve. All it did was get us back to the level of violence
that existed before the U.S. actions escalated it. Sort of like the
Auto Glass repairman who goes around breaking windshields at night to
drum up business, or the volunteer fireman who torches buildings so he
can then pretend to be a hero.


Oh, yeah... this was all done using our children as cheap cannon
fodder.



Expensive cannon fodder...


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 6 Sep 2008 11:15:59 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Dave" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 09:16:44 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

given that Community Organizer is a dirty phrase.

Not a dirty phrase. A joke.


I guess that's true, except that's exactly what McCain called for in his
speech of speeches. He's a war hero; therefore, he must be right!

Did you hear? He was a POW!


In that case, I guess I have to vote for him!!

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

On Sat, 6 Sep 2008 14:18:50 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On 6 Sep 2008 12:41:01 -0500, Dave wrote:

On Fri, 05 Sep 2008 13:18:14 -0400, said:

As a lawyer, you should realize that if the surge suceeded in even
some very minor way, it would have succeed beyond Obamas wildest
expectations.

Yes. He was not just wrong. He was really really wrong.


No, he was really correct. The surge did not solve the problem it was
intended to solve. All it did was get us back to the level of violence
that existed before the U.S. actions escalated it. Sort of like the
Auto Glass repairman who goes around breaking windshields at night to
drum up business, or the volunteer fireman who torches buildings so he
can then pretend to be a hero.


Oh, yeah... this was all done using our children as cheap cannon
fodder.



Expensive cannon fodder...

Bush apparently disagrees with you. He treats them as cheap.

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 6 Sep 2008 14:18:50 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

wrote in message
. ..
On 6 Sep 2008 12:41:01 -0500, Dave wrote:

On Fri, 05 Sep 2008 13:18:14 -0400, said:

As a lawyer, you should realize that if the surge suceeded in even
some very minor way, it would have succeed beyond Obamas wildest
expectations.

Yes. He was not just wrong. He was really really wrong.


No, he was really correct. The surge did not solve the problem it was
intended to solve. All it did was get us back to the level of violence
that existed before the U.S. actions escalated it. Sort of like the
Auto Glass repairman who goes around breaking windshields at night to
drum up business, or the volunteer fireman who torches buildings so he
can then pretend to be a hero.


Oh, yeah... this was all done using our children as cheap cannon
fodder.



Expensive cannon fodder...

Bush apparently disagrees with you. He treats them as cheap.

Sad but true. I was frankly shocked when McCain failed to support the vet
bill to give them the benefits they deserve. His claim that this will lower
retention seems to me to be insulting to the people in harm's way. I guess
he thinks the bullets are softer for the first three years.

Did you catch the RNC spectacle? I enjoyed how the crowd attempted to drown
out the people who were protesting on the floor.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 6 Sep 2008 11:15:59 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Dave" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 09:16:44 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

given that Community Organizer is a dirty phrase.

Not a dirty phrase. A joke.


I guess that's true, except that's exactly what McCain called for in his
speech of speeches. He's a war hero; therefore, he must be right!

Did you hear? He was a POW!


Did you hear CNN's Brown interview with Tucker Bounds? Palin was commander
of the Alaskan National Guard. They fought wildfires!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqKYO...eature=related

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

On Sat, 6 Sep 2008 21:42:36 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 6 Sep 2008 11:15:59 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 09:16:44 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

given that Community Organizer is a dirty phrase.

Not a dirty phrase. A joke.


I guess that's true, except that's exactly what McCain called for in his
speech of speeches. He's a war hero; therefore, he must be right!

Did you hear? He was a POW!


Did you hear CNN's Brown interview with Tucker Bounds? Palin was commander
of the Alaskan National Guard. They fought wildfires!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqKYO...eature=related


I heard it when it happened. The entire interview was Bounds not
answering ANY questions. He's a complete putz.

The McCain Campaign whined about it, and Brown did a follow up, in
which she, CNN, and several thousand emails more or less told McCain
to go **** himself. McCain, in retaliation, cancelled an appearance
with Larry King. No problem for King - He gave McCains hour to Michael
Moore, instead!

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
ons...
"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 09:16:44 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

given that Community Organizer is a dirty phrase.

Not a dirty phrase. A joke.


I guess that's true, except that's exactly what McCain called for in his
speech of speeches. He's a war hero; therefore, he must be right!


I wonder if Obama had people reporting rattlesnakes, jaywalkers, noisy
neighbors and speeders to him as "community organizer".

The best thing about "community organizers" is that they are not elected,
they simply appoint themselves!

Even better, they set the agenda. No one would expect to see a "community
organizer" working against their own self interest would they?

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 11:58:10 -0500, "jlrogers±³©"
said:

Whew, earth to Capt. JG, you are entering hyperspace!

Not entering. Remember, Ganz is the one who's been claiming the economy
has
been constantly in the crapper for the last 8 years.


Another example of the strong economy...

Breaking news.... U.S. Treasury secretary announces plan to take over
troubled mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"redbeard" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
ons...
"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 5 Sep 2008 09:16:44 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

given that Community Organizer is a dirty phrase.

Not a dirty phrase. A joke.


I guess that's true, except that's exactly what McCain called for in his
speech of speeches. He's a war hero; therefore, he must be right!


I wonder if Obama had people reporting rattlesnakes, jaywalkers, noisy
neighbors and speeders to him as "community organizer".

The best thing about "community organizers" is that they are not elected,
they simply appoint themselves!

Even better, they set the agenda. No one would expect to see a "community
organizer" working against their own self interest would they?


I am amazed nobody seems to know what Obama's community organizer job
involved.

Well, I did some research and talked to my sister who lives in Chicago.
Community organizing Obama-style involved being a go-between with those who
wanted to work on one side and the union bosses and various and sundry
politicians on the other. Obama "sold" favors. The favors he sold were
letters from the union bosses that when secured (bought) by a worker
guaranteed him a job. Those with letters got jobs almost immediately while
those without letters stood in lines that sometimes wound around a city
block with only a handful of them managing to get a job.

So, in other words, Obama was a runner of sorts for the Chicago Democrat
political machine/union bosses.

These are the facts.

--
Gregory Hall

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 7 Sep 2008 10:13:23 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

Breaking news.... U.S. Treasury secretary announces plan to take over
troubled mortgage giants Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

Lessee. Are those the same Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac that Jim Shumer was
urging to buy more and more mortgages to "solve" the problem? The same
ones
that the WSJ has for years been saying have had accounting issues and are
shaky? The same ones that have been making Chris Dodd, John Kerry, Barack
Obama and Hillary Clinton their top recipients of campaign contributions
over the last 19 years? Are those the ones?

Both should have been put out of their misery years ago by requiring them
to
sell off their assets to truly privately owned enterprises with no guvmint
guarantees, explicit or implicit.


They've been solvent and working until recently. Now they're not. Perhaps
you can blame Obama if you really try. After all, he was in the Illinois
Legislature and was a community organizer while Bushco was in the WH and the
Republicans controlled Congress.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 7 Sep 2008 11:57:15 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

Lessee. Are those the same Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac that Jim Shumer
was
urging to buy more and more mortgages to "solve" the problem? The same
ones
that the WSJ has for years been saying have had accounting issues and
are
shaky? The same ones that have been making Chris Dodd, John Kerry,
Barack
Obama and Hillary Clinton their top recipients of campaign contributions
over the last 19 years? Are those the ones?

Both should have been put out of their misery years ago by requiring
them
to
sell off their assets to truly privately owned enterprises with no
guvmint
guarantees, explicit or implicit.


They've been solvent and working until recently.

You just haven't been following the story as it unfolded. Shumer would
like
people to believe that fairy tale. The smart money knows better.

Now they're not. Perhaps
you can blame Obama if you really try. After all, he was in the Illinois
Legislature and was a community organizer while Bushco was in the WH and
the
Republicans controlled Congress.

Follow the money, Jon.


The "smart money" people are saying that they should be bailed out. The
half-ass compromise from Paulson isn't going to cut it....

"Paulson, whose comments came as shares of the so-called
government-sponsored enterprises tumbled to their lowest levels in 17 years,
said his department is "maintaining a dialogue with regulators and with the
companies."
Investors seemed unimpressed by the Treasury secretary's statement, as
stocks tumbled and oil prices climbed further into record territory. The Dow
Jones industrials fell more than 180 points and dropped below the 11,000
mark in mid-day trading for the first time in two years."


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
easolutions...
"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 7 Sep 2008 11:57:15 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

Lessee. Are those the same Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac that Jim Shumer
was
urging to buy more and more mortgages to "solve" the problem? The same
ones
that the WSJ has for years been saying have had accounting issues and
are
shaky? The same ones that have been making Chris Dodd, John Kerry,
Barack
Obama and Hillary Clinton their top recipients of campaign
contributions
over the last 19 years? Are those the ones?

Both should have been put out of their misery years ago by requiring
them
to
sell off their assets to truly privately owned enterprises with no
guvmint
guarantees, explicit or implicit.


They've been solvent and working until recently.

You just haven't been following the story as it unfolded. Shumer would
like
people to believe that fairy tale. The smart money knows better.

Now they're not. Perhaps
you can blame Obama if you really try. After all, he was in the Illinois
Legislature and was a community organizer while Bushco was in the WH and
the
Republicans controlled Congress.

Follow the money, Jon.


The "smart money" people are saying that they should be bailed out. The
half-ass compromise from Paulson isn't going to cut it....

"Paulson, whose comments came as shares of the so-called
government-sponsored enterprises tumbled to their lowest levels in 17
years, said his department is "maintaining a dialogue with regulators and
with the companies."
Investors seemed unimpressed by the Treasury secretary's statement, as
stocks tumbled and oil prices climbed further into record territory. The
Dow Jones industrials fell more than 180 points and dropped below the
11,000 mark in mid-day trading for the first time in two years."


Unattributed quotes - seems suspicious, let's see:


The DJIA last dropped below 11,000 on July 15th 2008. That's when oil was at
record prices.

Today, oil has dropped by almost 1/3 and the Dow is up over 1200 pts from
that alarming low.

Seems things are much better now, Paulson must have done well.

Is that your point?

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 7 Sep 2008 18:28:39 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

The "smart money" people are saying that they should be bailed out.

What does "bailed out" mean? Should common shareholders' equity be wiped
out
entirely? What should happen to their loan portfolios--write it way down?
What about their outstanding non-cumulative preferred? What about their
debt?

"Bailed out" is just a phrase. Until it's given some content, one can't
talk
about the subject intelligently. Based on the very sketchy information
I've
seen so far, it looks to me like equity holders are being offered far too
good a deal. Initially it looks like they come away with 20% of the equity
of the reorganized enterprises if profitability is restored.


Yes, the economy is in bang up shape! Vote for Palin! She'll kill a few
moose.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
tions...


Yes, the economy is in bang up shape! Vote for Palin! She'll kill a few
moose.



First intelligent thing you have said in weeks. Good idea!

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"redbard" wrote in message
...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
tions...


Yes, the economy is in bang up shape! Vote for Palin! She'll kill a few
moose.



First intelligent thing you have said in weeks. Good idea!


Looks like she's already killed the donkey stallions. Bwaahahahahahahahha.
Not only that but she's single-handedly assisting with colony collapse
disorder.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colony_Collapse_Disorder

What a woman!

--
Gregory Hall

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 7 Sep 2008 21:09:28 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

"Bailed out" is just a phrase. Until it's given some content, one can't
talk
about the subject intelligently. Based on the very sketchy information
I've
seen so far, it looks to me like equity holders are being offered far
too
good a deal. Initially it looks like they come away with 20% of the
equity
of the reorganized enterprises if profitability is restored.


Yes, the economy is in bang up shape! Vote for Palin! She'll kill a few
moose.

I've now seen a bit more about the proposed plan. Too little too late. And
for too generous to the companies' stockholders. Anyone who has been
following the story for a few years would recognize that these companies
have been heading for a crackup for some time, and Congress has been
turning
a blind eye, blinded by lobbyists and campaign contributors.

The following from one of today's news stories:

"Republicans have long pushed for a structured overhaul of Fannie and
Freddie. By contrast, Democrats have warned against making major changes
until the companies were stabilized. The companies have traditionally had
stronger backing from Democrats who ... for years have fended off calls
for
greater oversight....

Sen. Obama has received $105,849 from donors tied to the companies since
he
ran for the Senate four years ago, making him the third-largest recipient
in
Congress and among the top 25 listed in a recent report by the Center for
Responsive Politics, which examined contributions dating to 1989.

Sen. McCain has not listed in the report, and proponents of overhaul say
lobbyists have tried unsuccessfully to win him over."

And meanwhile you have Shumer and Frank continue to push for the companies
to buy more mortgages, putting them deeper in the hole. Lobbyists
apparently
had no trouble winning them over. Fortunately, the plan does require both
companies to stop their lobbying activities.


Hate to tell you, but as a result of the take-over, both companies will be
buying even more mortgages. This debacle is a direct result of the removal
of regulations in the last seven years.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 07:58:38 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

Hate to tell you, but as a result of the take-over, both companies will be
buying even more mortgages. This debacle is a direct result of the removal
of regulations in the last seven years.

Oh? Please tell me what regulations on these two companies have been
removed
in the last seven years to contribute to this result. Oh, and while you're
at it, tell me about what regulations governing banks' mortgages have been
removed leading to this result. Inquiring minds want to know.


You're a good researcher. I'm sure you can do your own investigation of the
facts if you're so inclined, which I doubt.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 08:44:46 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

Oh? Please tell me what regulations on these two companies have been
removed
in the last seven years to contribute to this result. Oh, and while
you're
at it, tell me about what regulations governing banks' mortgages have
been
removed leading to this result. Inquiring minds want to know.


You're a good researcher. I'm sure you can do your own investigation of
the
facts if you're so inclined, which I doubt.

That's one I don't have to research, Jon. A big part of my practice over
the
last several years has been dealing with the OCC, OTS, FRB FDIC and State
banking regulators. I published a 50 page article in the field last year.

So I know you're full of **** on this one without having to touch the
books.

Now perhaps you can tell me what changes in the regulations your
"investigation of the facts" has revealed to you?


I'm glad you think I'm "full of ****." There's been little oversight in the
banking/mortgage industry, and the Bush admin. is at fault.

Why don't you tell us again how great the economy is doing.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 09:35:34 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

That's one I don't have to research, Jon. A big part of my practice over
the
last several years has been dealing with the OCC, OTS, FRB FDIC and
State
banking regulators. I published a 50 page article in the field last
year.

So I know you're full of **** on this one without having to touch the
books.

Now perhaps you can tell me what changes in the regulations your
"investigation of the facts" has revealed to you?


I'm glad you think I'm "full of ****." There's been little oversight in
the
banking/mortgage industry, and the Bush admin. is at fault.

The current problems with Fan and Fred long antedate the current
administration, and can be traced in substantial part to the fact the
legislators, and particular Dem legislators, have been in Fan and Fred's
pocket for years. As I said before, follow the money--not your left wing
nut
blogs.


So, you think things have gotten better or worse in the last 7 years?


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 11:27:41 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

The current problems with Fan and Fred long antedate the current
administration, and can be traced in substantial part to the fact the
legislators, and particular Dem legislators, have been in Fan and Fred's
pocket for years. As I said before, follow the money--not your left wing
nut
blogs.


So, you think things have gotten better or worse in the last 7 years?

In this area, what we've seen over the last 7 years is a continuation of
trends long in the offing. When it comes to assessing blame, we have a
huge
cast of characters, beginning with individuals who thought real estate
purchases involved all reward and no risk. The cast includes:

Home buyers who believed it was ok to lie about their ability to pay
mortgages because their homes could only keep going up.

Real estate brokers who persuaded them of the above.

Appraisers whose income depended on referrals from brokers, and were
willing
to do whatever it took to come in with appraisals that would yield a
commission to the referring broker. (I was looking at one of those deals
just last week.)

Mortgage brokers who made enormous amounts but were paid only when
mortgages
were closed, and were more than happy to encourage the borrowers to lie,
telling the customer that "everybody does it.".

Banks willing to buy the mortgages without looking too closely at the
documentation because they could resell them immediately to a greater
fool.

Mortgage buyers who bought from the banks without looking very closely
because they could sell the mortgages in a securitized bundle.

Investment bankers who deluded themselves and investors into thinking that
financial engineering could remove the risk of defaults.

Rating agencies who got paid to give ratings after telling the investment
bankers what to put into the package.

"Structured finance" lawyers who should have known better, but didn't ask
the right questions.

Auditors who never bothered to check transaction documents in auditing
financial statements (a few months ago I got a relatively prominent
auditing
firm fired by a client for that very reason).

Regulators who hadn't a clue about accounting issues.

One thing that might help the situation is a few very prominent
prosecutions
for mortgage fraud by home buyers. But I don't see that happening.

The underlying problem is the same as the one that caused the pension
problems of the 70s, the S&L crisis of the early 90s, the dot com bubble
of
2000, current issues with skyrocketing medical costs, and the social
security problem--a misalignment of risks and incentives: the belief that
you can get something for nothing and somebody else is gonna pay for it.
And
that has been the Dem mantra since forever.


All very interesting, but you didn't answer my question:

"So, you think things have gotten better or worse in the last 7 years?"

If you think things have gotten better, then Bush and the Republican
Congress can take the credit. If things have gotten worse, then you can
blame the Democrats. Seems fair to me. LOL


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

On 8 Sep 2008 14:48:02 -0500, Dave wrote:

On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 11:27:41 -0700, "Capt. JG" said:

The current problems with Fan and Fred long antedate the current
administration, and can be traced in substantial part to the fact the
legislators, and particular Dem legislators, have been in Fan and Fred's
pocket for years. As I said before, follow the money--not your left wing
nut
blogs.


So, you think things have gotten better or worse in the last 7 years?

In this area, what we've seen over the last 7 years is a continuation of
trends long in the offing. When it comes to assessing blame, we have a huge
cast of characters, beginning with individuals who thought real estate
purchases involved all reward and no risk. The cast includes:

Very good job of listing the entire chain of shame.

Home buyers who believed it was ok to lie about their ability to pay
mortgages because their homes could only keep going up.

Two subdivisions here. Those who were buying homes to live in that
they could not afford with trick mortgages and no down payments.
Strongly encouraged by liberal politicians. No skin in the game.

Those who were simply speculating, in many cases signing
pre-construction deals with neither the means nor the desire to close
the deal, simply intending to resell before they had any skin in the
game.

Real estate brokers who persuaded them of the above.

Appraisers whose income depended on referrals from brokers, and were willing
to do whatever it took to come in with appraisals that would yield a
commission to the referring broker. (I was looking at one of those deals
just last week.)

Mortgage brokers who made enormous amounts but were paid only when mortgages
were closed, and were more than happy to encourage the borrowers to lie,
telling the customer that "everybody does it.".

Once again, no skin in the game.

Banks willing to buy the mortgages without looking too closely at the
documentation because they could resell them immediately to a greater fool.

Hey, no skin in the game.
Mortgage buyers who bought from the banks without looking very closely
because they could sell the mortgages in a securitized bundle.

No skin in the game.

Investment bankers who deluded themselves and investors into thinking that
financial engineering could remove the risk of defaults.



Rating agencies who got paid to give ratings after telling the investment
bankers what to put into the package.



"Structured finance" lawyers who should have known better, but didn't ask
the right questions.

Auditors who never bothered to check transaction documents in auditing
financial statements (a few months ago I got a relatively prominent auditing
firm fired by a client for that very reason).

Regulators who hadn't a clue about accounting issues.

One thing that might help the situation is a few very prominent prosecutions
for mortgage fraud by home buyers. But I don't see that happening.

The underlying problem is the same as the one that caused the pension
problems of the 70s, the S&L crisis of the early 90s, the dot com bubble of
2000, current issues with skyrocketing medical costs, and the social
security problem--a misalignment of risks and incentives: the belief that
you can get something for nothing and somebody else is gonna pay for it. And
that has been the Dem mantra since forever.

No skin in the game.

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 13:31:12 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

All very interesting, but you didn't answer my question:

That's because I didn't want to let you play your little game of trying to
change the subject as soon as it's shown you know nothing about the
subject
under discussion.


Dave, that was the original question. I asked you if the economy was better
or worse. You haven't answer to date.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
...
On 8 Sep 2008 14:48:02 -0500, Dave wrote:

On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 11:27:41 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

The current problems with Fan and Fred long antedate the current
administration, and can be traced in substantial part to the fact the
legislators, and particular Dem legislators, have been in Fan and
Fred's
pocket for years. As I said before, follow the money--not your left
wing
nut
blogs.


So, you think things have gotten better or worse in the last 7 years?

In this area, what we've seen over the last 7 years is a continuation of
trends long in the offing. When it comes to assessing blame, we have a
huge
cast of characters, beginning with individuals who thought real estate
purchases involved all reward and no risk. The cast includes:

Very good job of listing the entire chain of shame.

Home buyers who believed it was ok to lie about their ability to pay
mortgages because their homes could only keep going up.

Two subdivisions here. Those who were buying homes to live in that
they could not afford with trick mortgages and no down payments.
Strongly encouraged by liberal politicians. No skin in the game.

Those who were simply speculating, in many cases signing
pre-construction deals with neither the means nor the desire to close
the deal, simply intending to resell before they had any skin in the
game.

Real estate brokers who persuaded them of the above.

Appraisers whose income depended on referrals from brokers, and were
willing
to do whatever it took to come in with appraisals that would yield a
commission to the referring broker. (I was looking at one of those deals
just last week.)

Mortgage brokers who made enormous amounts but were paid only when
mortgages
were closed, and were more than happy to encourage the borrowers to lie,
telling the customer that "everybody does it.".

Once again, no skin in the game.

Banks willing to buy the mortgages without looking too closely at the
documentation because they could resell them immediately to a greater
fool.

Hey, no skin in the game.
Mortgage buyers who bought from the banks without looking very closely
because they could sell the mortgages in a securitized bundle.

No skin in the game.

Investment bankers who deluded themselves and investors into thinking that
financial engineering could remove the risk of defaults.



Rating agencies who got paid to give ratings after telling the investment
bankers what to put into the package.



"Structured finance" lawyers who should have known better, but didn't ask
the right questions.

Auditors who never bothered to check transaction documents in auditing
financial statements (a few months ago I got a relatively prominent
auditing
firm fired by a client for that very reason).

Regulators who hadn't a clue about accounting issues.

One thing that might help the situation is a few very prominent
prosecutions
for mortgage fraud by home buyers. But I don't see that happening.

The underlying problem is the same as the one that caused the pension
problems of the 70s, the S&L crisis of the early 90s, the dot com bubble
of
2000, current issues with skyrocketing medical costs, and the social
security problem--a misalignment of risks and incentives: the belief that
you can get something for nothing and somebody else is gonna pay for it.
And
that has been the Dem mantra since forever.

No skin in the game.



You may not have skin in the game, but millions do. Some, for sure, deserve
what they get, being speculators. A huge number were bamboozled by predatory
lending practices.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
...
On 8 Sep 2008 14:48:02 -0500, Dave wrote:

On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 11:27:41 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

The current problems with Fan and Fred long antedate the current
administration, and can be traced in substantial part to the fact the
legislators, and particular Dem legislators, have been in Fan and
Fred's
pocket for years. As I said before, follow the money--not your left
wing
nut
blogs.


So, you think things have gotten better or worse in the last 7 years?

In this area, what we've seen over the last 7 years is a continuation of
trends long in the offing. When it comes to assessing blame, we have a
huge
cast of characters, beginning with individuals who thought real estate
purchases involved all reward and no risk. The cast includes:

Very good job of listing the entire chain of shame.

Home buyers who believed it was ok to lie about their ability to pay
mortgages because their homes could only keep going up.

Two subdivisions here. Those who were buying homes to live in that
they could not afford with trick mortgages and no down payments.
Strongly encouraged by liberal politicians. No skin in the game.

Those who were simply speculating, in many cases signing
pre-construction deals with neither the means nor the desire to close
the deal, simply intending to resell before they had any skin in the
game.

Real estate brokers who persuaded them of the above.

Appraisers whose income depended on referrals from brokers, and were
willing
to do whatever it took to come in with appraisals that would yield a
commission to the referring broker. (I was looking at one of those deals
just last week.)

Mortgage brokers who made enormous amounts but were paid only when
mortgages
were closed, and were more than happy to encourage the borrowers to lie,
telling the customer that "everybody does it.".

Once again, no skin in the game.

Banks willing to buy the mortgages without looking too closely at the
documentation because they could resell them immediately to a greater
fool.

Hey, no skin in the game.
Mortgage buyers who bought from the banks without looking very closely
because they could sell the mortgages in a securitized bundle.

No skin in the game.

Investment bankers who deluded themselves and investors into thinking
that
financial engineering could remove the risk of defaults.



Rating agencies who got paid to give ratings after telling the investment
bankers what to put into the package.



"Structured finance" lawyers who should have known better, but didn't ask
the right questions.

Auditors who never bothered to check transaction documents in auditing
financial statements (a few months ago I got a relatively prominent
auditing
firm fired by a client for that very reason).

Regulators who hadn't a clue about accounting issues.

One thing that might help the situation is a few very prominent
prosecutions
for mortgage fraud by home buyers. But I don't see that happening.

The underlying problem is the same as the one that caused the pension
problems of the 70s, the S&L crisis of the early 90s, the dot com bubble
of
2000, current issues with skyrocketing medical costs, and the social
security problem--a misalignment of risks and incentives: the belief that
you can get something for nothing and somebody else is gonna pay for it.
And
that has been the Dem mantra since forever.

No skin in the game.



You may not have skin in the game, but millions do. Some, for sure,
deserve what they get, being speculators. A huge number were bamboozled by
predatory lending practices.


OH PLEASE! Spare us the liberal victim mentality all the time, why don't
you!

Wilbur Hubbard

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 14:15:48 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

A huge number were bamboozled by predatory
lending practices.

What, in your view, does "predatory lending," mean, Jon?


I'll go with the following. Are you going to answer my question?

http://www.solutionsforamerica.org/v...y-lending.html

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 14:14:21 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

Dave, that was the original question.

Perhaps you wish it were so. You've been wandering all over the place.
When
I pointed out that you've been claiming the economy has been continuously
in
the crapper for the last 8 years, you tried to drag in the seizure of Fan
and Fred. Since I know at least a bit about mortgages and banking I picked
up on that nonsense. I take it that kitchen is a bit too warm for you.


Actually, you started saying it:

Not entering. Remember, Ganz is the one who's been claiming the economy
has
been constantly in the crapper for the last 8 years.

I responded as follows:

Yeah, the job numbers and inflation index that just came out prove me
wrong!
LOL

Worst employment numbers in five years. Inflation on the rise. The mortgage
crisis getting worse, with no end in sight.

Drill, drill, drill... that'll fix it.

So, I ask again.... is the economy better or worse?

This is not a difficult question.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 14:56:03 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Dave" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 14:14:21 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

Dave, that was the original question.

Perhaps you wish it were so. You've been wandering all over the place.
When
I pointed out that you've been claiming the economy has been continuously
in
the crapper for the last 8 years, you tried to drag in the seizure of Fan
and Fred. Since I know at least a bit about mortgages and banking I picked
up on that nonsense. I take it that kitchen is a bit too warm for you.


Actually, you started saying it:

Not entering. Remember, Ganz is the one who's been claiming the economy
has
been constantly in the crapper for the last 8 years.

I responded as follows:

Yeah, the job numbers and inflation index that just came out prove me
wrong!
LOL

Worst employment numbers in five years. Inflation on the rise. The mortgage
crisis getting worse, with no end in sight.

Drill, drill, drill... that'll fix it.

So, I ask again.... is the economy better or worse?

This is not a difficult question.

It seems incredibly difficult for Dave. I thought he knew something
about this stuff. Guess not.