Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 14:56:03 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Dave" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 14:14:21 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

Dave, that was the original question.

Perhaps you wish it were so. You've been wandering all over the place.
When
I pointed out that you've been claiming the economy has been
continuously
in
the crapper for the last 8 years, you tried to drag in the seizure of
Fan
and Fred. Since I know at least a bit about mortgages and banking I
picked
up on that nonsense. I take it that kitchen is a bit too warm for you.


Actually, you started saying it:

Not entering. Remember, Ganz is the one who's been claiming the economy
has
been constantly in the crapper for the last 8 years.

I responded as follows:

Yeah, the job numbers and inflation index that just came out prove me
wrong!
LOL

Worst employment numbers in five years. Inflation on the rise. The
mortgage
crisis getting worse, with no end in sight.

Drill, drill, drill... that'll fix it.

So, I ask again.... is the economy better or worse?

This is not a difficult question.

It seems incredibly difficult for Dave. I thought he knew something
about this stuff. Guess not.

I *know* he knows something about this stuff! That's why it's incredibly
difficult for him to give a straight answer. LOL

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

On 8 Sep 2008 19:16:01 -0500, Dave wrote:

On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 14:56:03 -0700, "Capt. JG" said:

So, I ask again.... is the economy better or worse?

Try this in place of your left wing-nut blogs:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122039890722392873.html

The witness is non-responsive.

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On 8 Sep 2008 09:46:02 -0500, Dave said:

And
for too generous to the companies' stockholders.

I should have added too generous to the subordinated debt. A more
realistic
plan would have wiped out common and preferred holders, and given holders
of
subordinated debt common stock. I suspect the problem with that is that
the
subordinated debt, and probably much of the preferred, is held by banks,
so
that would have hit the banks' capital, limiting their ability to lend.

Even though Ganz (MBA) has no grasp on what you explain, others do and
appreciate it.

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 14:56:03 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

So, I ask again.... is the economy better or worse?

Try this in place of your left wing-nut blogs:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122039890722392873.html


You didn't answer the question. Do you dispute the unemployment numbers, the
growing mortgage crisis, the huge deficit that's getting worse?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 14:39:01 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

I'll go with the following.

Why am I not surprised.


Still waiting for your answer... or are you really, really out of touch?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

Capt. JG wrote:


You didn't answer the question. Do you dispute the unemployment numbers, the
growing mortgage crisis, the huge deficit that's getting worse?

It's those dam Dems, borrowing all that money to pay for their
shenanigans in Iraq!

Cheers
Marty

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"Marty" wrote in message
...
Capt. JG wrote:


You didn't answer the question. Do you dispute the unemployment numbers,
the growing mortgage crisis, the huge deficit that's getting worse?

It's those dam Dems, borrowing all that money to pay for their shenanigans
in Iraq!

Cheers
Marty



Yep. We did it! Oops....

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

On 8 Sep 2008 20:22:01 -0500, Dave wrote:

On Mon, 08 Sep 2008 20:56:17 -0400, said:

So, I ask again.... is the economy better or worse?

Try this in place of your left wing-nut blogs:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122039890722392873.html

The witness is non-responsive.

I guess you didn't read the link.

A link is not a response. The witness is non-responsive and has not
answered the question. At thuis point, your lack of response has been
accepted as your answer.

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 21:34:20 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Marty" wrote in message
m...
Capt. JG wrote:


You didn't answer the question. Do you dispute the unemployment numbers,
the growing mortgage crisis, the huge deficit that's getting worse?

It's those dam Dems, borrowing all that money to pay for their shenanigans
in Iraq!

Cheers
Marty



Yep. We did it! Oops....

The Democrats are behind the financing of the Iraq war? Sounds like
the Republicans msut be weak on national security!

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
ions...
"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 14:39:01 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

I'll go with the following.

Why am I not surprised.


Still waiting for your answer... or are you really, really out of touch?


Dave's out of touch. He's too busy guiding captains of industry to be a
full time squeaky spectator such as you.

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 19:17:22 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

You didn't answer the question. Do you dispute the unemployment numbers,
the
growing mortgage crisis, the huge deficit that's getting worse?

If you'll recall, Jon, the point I initially made was that you've been
claiming the economy was in the crapper for the last 7 years. You don't
seem
to like that suggestion. So let me ask you. Has the economy been in the
crapper continuously for the last 7 years as you've consistently claimed?


Continuously? Absolutely not. There are always fluctuations. I never made
that claim. Feel free to show me the post where I did.

So, now that I've answered your question, answer mine.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 19:17:55 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

I'll go with the following.

Why am I not surprised.


Still waiting for your answer...

To what question?


Nice try: "Is the economy better or worse?"

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 9 Sep 2008 09:41:27 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

You didn't answer the question. Do you dispute the unemployment numbers,
the
growing mortgage crisis, the huge deficit that's getting worse?

Well, lessee. After declining for 6 years, the unemployment numbers are
increasing. The average unemployment rate over Bush's 8 years even stands
a
chance of reaching the 5.2% average rate of the Clinton years. On the
other
hand, the second quarter's growth was surprisingly good.

Whether the mortgage "crisis" is growing or has plateaued is at this point
an open question. Depends very much on whether you think the banks have
finally written down their portfolios enough to entice new capital so they
can increase their lending. From what I'm seeing, I think chances are that
they haven't. It'll take about another year for increased allowances for
loan losses to work their way through the system. My suspicion is the your
buddies like Barney Frank and Jim Shumer may succeed in putting off the
necessary write-downs by Fan and Fred, pushing that drag on lending out
further as well.

As to the deficit, yes, it's up. Neither party has exercised spending
restraint. And based on the direction Obama is headed I see it continuing
to
climb for a number of years if he's elected. Historically, revenues have
gone up when marginal income and capital gains tax rates are cut, and down
when they're raised.

Tell me, do you swallow that line that handing out money to folks who
don't
pay taxes is a "tax cut?"


Still waiting for your answer.

Your question isn't a fair question, because it makes assumptions that are
not true.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 9 Sep 2008 13:12:05 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

Tell me, do you swallow that line that handing out money to folks who
don't
pay taxes is a "tax cut?"


Still waiting for your answer.

Guess you haven't been reading very carefully.

Your question isn't a fair question, because it makes assumptions that are
not true.

What assumptions are those? Do you seriously intend to make the argument
that because he's gonna hand money to a few people who do pay taxes, he
doesn't intend to hand out money to folks who don't pay taxes?

Is handing out money to people who don't pay taxes a "tax cut," or isn't
it?


Yet another bs response. Are you planning on answering my question or should
I let you win?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

On 9 Sep 2008 14:39:02 -0500, Dave wrote:

On Tue, 9 Sep 2008 09:41:27 -0700, "Capt. JG" said:

You didn't answer the question. Do you dispute the unemployment numbers,
the
growing mortgage crisis, the huge deficit that's getting worse?

Well, lessee. After declining for 6 years, the unemployment numbers are
increasing. The average unemployment rate over Bush's 8 years even stands a
chance of reaching the 5.2% average rate of the Clinton years.

Except the "jobs" are different. The Bush Administration worked hard
tyo do things like classify working at McDonalds as a "Manufacturing
Job".

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 18:33:15 -0400, said:

Except the "jobs" are different.

Maybe you can answer the question I put to Jon, Not at All.

Do you swallow that line that handing out money to folks who
don't pay taxes is a "tax cut?"


Why not? Liberals believe that adjusting government spending in one
bureaucracy or another from an annual increase of 15% to an annual increase
of 12% is a budget "cut."

--
Gregory Hall

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

Dave wrote:
On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 18:33:15 -0400, said:

Except the "jobs" are different.

Maybe you can answer the question I put to Jon, Not at All.

Do you swallow that line that handing out money to folks who
don't pay taxes is a "tax cut?"


Dave, can you explain to me how it is, that in america, one can earn
$30,000, spend it all and yet pay no taxes? Are there special lines at
the supermarket market marked "no sales tax at this register"? Do their
landlords get a special dispensation and not have to pay property taxes
on the places they rent, or on their rental income? Do manufactures
have special plants that pay no taxes because the make goods for those
who earn less than 30K?

If you look at the whole picture, those at the bottom pay a greater
percentage than those at the top.

Cheers
Marty

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 9 Sep 2008 13:12:05 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:


Well, lessee. After declining for 6 years, the unemployment numbers are
increasing. The average unemployment rate over Bush's 8 years even
stands
a
chance of reaching the 5.2% average rate of the Clinton years. On the
other
hand, the second quarter's growth was surprisingly good.

Whether the mortgage "crisis" is growing or has plateaued is at this
point
an open question. Depends very much on whether you think the banks have
finally written down their portfolios enough to entice new capital so
they
can increase their lending. From what I'm seeing, I think chances are
that
they haven't. It'll take about another year for increased allowances
for
loan losses to work their way through the system. My suspicion is the
your
buddies like Barney Frank and Jim Shumer may succeed in putting off the
necessary write-downs by Fan and Fred, pushing that drag on lending out
further as well.

As to the deficit, yes, it's up. Neither party has exercised spending
restraint. And based on the direction Obama is headed I see it
continuing
to
climb for a number of years if he's elected. Historically, revenues have
gone up when marginal income and capital gains tax rates are cut, and
down
when they're raised.

Tell me, do you swallow that line that handing out money to folks who
don't
pay taxes is a "tax cut?"


Still waiting for your answer.

Guess you have a problem with reading comprehension. The answer is above.
Apparently you just didn't like the answer.

Now, let me ask again:

do you swallow that line that handing out money to folks who
don't
pay taxes is a "tax cut?"


Still waiting for your answer:

Do you dispute the unemployment numbers, the growing mortgage crisis, the
huge deficit that's getting worse?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 18:33:15 -0400, said:

Except the "jobs" are different.

Maybe you can answer the question I put to Jon, Not at All.

Do you swallow that line that handing out money to folks who
don't pay taxes is a "tax cut?"


I've already answered... still waiting for yours.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

On 9 Sep 2008 18:01:02 -0500, Dave wrote:

On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 18:33:15 -0400, said:

Except the "jobs" are different.

Maybe you can answer the question I put to Jon, Not at All.

Do you swallow that line that handing out money to folks who
don't pay taxes is a "tax cut?"

I haven't heard that line. Who said it? What else did they say that
might affect the context?

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

Dave wrote:
On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 19:18:46 -0400, Marty said:

Dave, can you explain to me how it is, that in america, one can earn
$30,000, spend it all and yet pay no taxes? Are there special lines at
the supermarket market marked "no sales tax at this register"?

In many places, food is not subject to sales tax. Nor clothing to one degree
or another.

To "one degree or another"? So they pay taxes on some things, yes?
Gasoline, televisions, kitchen tables, blankets...... ? If they pay
*any* taxes, on anything, it negates your allegation. As an attorney I'm
sure you are familiar with the concept that if you disprove one part of
a witness's statement, everything else from him is suspect.

Do their
landlords get a special dispensation and not have to pay property taxes
on the places they rent, or on their rental income?

In New York, at least, yes. In fact the gummint is probably providing
housing to them at well below market rents.

"Probably"? You making this stuff up as you go? So if I tell the state
government that I'm renting to low income folks, I get my property taxes
waived? And of course I'll pass that saving on. No wonder I hear so
many complaints about NY state having some of the highest property taxes
in the country.

Do manufactures
have special plants that pay no taxes because the make goods for those
who earn less than 30K?

Generally, we do not regard income taxes paid by a manufacturer as a tax
imposed on the purchaser of the goods. We don't have VAT here. You're
playing word games here, Marty.

No, you made the statement "Do you swallow that line that handing out
money to folks who don't pay taxes is a "tax cut?" I'm merely pointing
out that the old adage about death and taxes is correct. You seem to
think that not paying any Federal income tax is paying *no* taxes, I
assert not.


If you look at the whole picture, those at the bottom pay a greater
percentage than those at the top.

A highly doubtful proposition, particularly if you net all the transfer
payments they receive against taxes paid.

I think that your country is much like mine; if you make enough to have
disposable income, then there are many ways to invest that excess and
get nice tax deductions and credits. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that
I fall into the category that can take advantage of such opportunities,
but I do recognize the basic unfairness of such a system.

"Capitalism, that quaint concept that really nasty men will do the right
thing", can't remember who said it.

Cheers
Marty

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

wrote in message
...
On 10 Sep 2008 11:47:01 -0500, Dave wrote:

On Tue, 9 Sep 2008 19:27:01 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

Still waiting for your answer:

Do you dispute the unemployment numbers, the growing mortgage crisis, the
huge deficit that's getting worse?

Asked and answered.

Why not put this stupidity to bed and restate your answer so we can
move on?



Good question. I answered his question in a straightforward fashion.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 9 Sep 2008 19:27:38 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

Do you swallow that line that handing out money to folks who
don't pay taxes is a "tax cut?"


I've already answered... still waiting for yours.

You mean by saying you didn't think it was a fair question? LOL.


I said that it's not a legitimate question that you asked in this case, and
I answered your other one with "absolutely not."

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 06:14:56 -0400, said:

Do you swallow that line that handing out money to folks who
don't pay taxes is a "tax cut?"

I haven't heard that line. Who said it?

That's part of your boy Obama's "economic plan."


Sounds a bit racist... boy Obama? Perhaps it's a pig by another name. LOL

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 10:33:55 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

You mean by saying you didn't think it was a fair question? LOL.


I said that it's not a legitimate question

My apologies for misquoting you.


Heh...

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 10:34:41 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

Sounds a bit racist.

Jon boy, to Dems, Mary Had a Little Lamb no doubt sounds racist.


Like Lipstick on a pig? Oh wait, that would be sexist for Republicans! LOL

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 06:14:56 -0400, said:

Do you swallow that line that handing out money to folks who
don't pay taxes is a "tax cut?"

I haven't heard that line. Who said it? What else did they say that
might affect the context?

The Obama folks would never say they want to hand out money to people who
don't pay taxes, silly. You have to think about what they're saying rather
than slavishly accepting their rhetoric. They call the money they're
handing
out a "refundable tax credit," apparently figuring that folks like you and
Jon won't look at the substance of what they're offering. Never mind the
man
behind the curtain.


I agree! They would never say that! And, I agree you have to think about
what they and the Bushies, I mean, McCain/Palin is actually saying rather
than the rhetoric. Like "I told them thanks, but no thanks" (wanted but then
didn't and kept the money anyway). Or, here are a few more...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG7Xp2XnvlQ

But, the real question is... who is John McCain?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aH32x...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/v/-CazKanlYDg&hl=en&fs=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSlAJ...eature=related

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

On 10 Sep 2008 15:03:01 -0500, Dave wrote:

On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:02:01 -0400, said:

Do you swallow that line that handing out money to folks who
don't pay taxes is a "tax cut?"

I haven't heard that line. Who said it? What else did they say that
might affect the context?

The Obama folks would never say they want to hand out money to people who
don't pay taxes, silly.


So, you admit you are just making **** up. Okay.

Nope. I'm telling it like it is.

No. "Like it is" would be providing a cite to back up your specious
claim. You are telling it "like you imagine in your fantasies". Obama
never said what you claim he said. You are, in fact, just making ****
up. You got caught.

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

On 10 Sep 2008 19:22:01 -0500, Dave wrote:

On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 19:02:28 -0400, said:

No. "Like it is" would be providing a cite to back up your specious
claim. You are telling it "like you imagine in your fantasies". Obama
never said what you claim he said. You are, in fact, just making ****
up. You got caught.

So you claim his plan does not call for giving "refundable tax credits" to
people who don't pay taxes?

I haven't claimed anything. You have. And it's obviously you were
making it up, since you can't point to a reliable source where Obama
said what you claimed. Put the shovel down, Dave.

Obama admits surge wildly successful
 

wrote in message
...
On 10 Sep 2008 19:22:01 -0500, Dave wrote:

On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 19:02:28 -0400, said:

No. "Like it is" would be providing a cite to back up your specious
claim. You are telling it "like you imagine in your fantasies". Obama
never said what you claim he said. You are, in fact, just making ****
up. You got caught.

So you claim his plan does not call for giving "refundable tax credits" to
people who don't pay taxes?

I haven't claimed anything. You have. And it's obviously you were
making it up, since you can't point to a reliable source where Obama
said what you claimed. Put the shovel down, Dave.



Hey, he likes to dig.... it's almost entertaining.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Obama admits surge wildly successful