wrote:

On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 21:12:19 -0600, JimC wrote:



jeff wrote:


JimC wrote:


Out of curiosity, I asked the MacGregor discussion group whether
anyone had heard of a Mac 26 breaking up and/or sinking in heavy seas.
(Many of the Mac owners have taken their boats offshore.) No one had
heard of any such incidence. As you say, there are thousands out
there, all over the world and in all types of conditions.


Really? I'd love to see an account of a Mac 26X/M doing a real offshore
passage. I don't doubt that there have been a few, but most of the
comments I see are more like "I take my Mac out on the open ocean and it
does quite well, especially since I can power in before it get too
rough. But I wouldn't want to do a real ocean crossing." The fact that
Macs are taken out in the open ocean, such as a crossing to Catalina (or
Boston to P'town, or even crossing to the Bahamas) does not mean they
have been "offshore."

I'm a fair weather cruiser with little ambition to do long passages, but
every year or two I get "caught out" in 30-40 knots, or maybe 8-10 foot
seas. My boat handles this with no problem, and these conditions should
be survivable by a Mac, assuming a competent skipper. But when you say
"offshore" you're implying the possibility of much worse conditions, 50+
knots, large breaking seas, and storms lasting several days. I'm just a
bit skeptical that Macs have endured such conditions on many occasions.

I think the discussion has related largely to conditions such as those
Joe experienced in the Gulf of Mexico. - Regarding accounts of ocean
voyages, I have read of a number of them on various Mac discussion
groups, although not many are true extended ocean crossings. On the
other hand, with thousands of Macs out there, in US and foreign waters,
the probabilities of exposure to various problems under sail is
significant. In other words, with that many boats exposed to the
vagaries of weather, other severe conditions, collisions, inexperienced
or distracted skippers, etc., etc., problems can arise no matter where
the boats are being sailed. My point is that, so far, we don't see any
reports of any tendencies of the boats to break up or sink.



...Or leave the dock in anything but mild weather.


Again, despite the thousands of Mac 26's out there sailed in US and
foreign waters, we have NO reports of Mac 26M's breaking up and sinking
in ANY conditions. NONE!

Have a nice day Salty.

Jim

"JimC" wrote in message
t...



Again, despite the thousands of Mac 26's out there sailed in US and
foreign waters, we have NO reports of Mac 26M's breaking up and sinking in
ANY conditions. NONE!

Have a nice day Salty.

Jim


Please prove this. I see no evidence of this in your post.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Capt. JG wrote:

"JimC" wrote in message
t...


Again, despite the thousands of Mac 26's out there sailed in US and
foreign waters, we have NO reports of Mac 26M's breaking up and sinking in
ANY conditions. NONE!

Have a nice day Salty.

Jim



Please prove this. I see no evidence of this in your post.


We (those posting on alt.sailing.asa) have so far been unable to provide
ANY reports of Mac26M's breaking up and sinking under ANY conditions.
If you think this statement is incorrect in any respect, please identify
the source you think contradicts it. Or, if you have other sources that
would contradict it, post those as well (or instead).

I'm not saying that there might not be such a report out there
somewhere, but so far no one on this ng has been able to produce it.

Your move.

Jim

"JimC" wrote in message
. ..


Capt. JG wrote:

"JimC" wrote in message
t...


Again, despite the thousands of Mac 26's out there sailed in US and
foreign waters, we have NO reports of Mac 26M's breaking up and sinking
in ANY conditions. NONE!

Have a nice day Salty.

Jim



Please prove this. I see no evidence of this in your post.


We (those posting on alt.sailing.asa) have so far been unable to provide
ANY reports of Mac26M's breaking up and sinking under ANY conditions. If
you think this statement is incorrect in any respect, please identify the
source you think contradicts it. Or, if you have other sources that would
contradict it, post those as well (or instead).

I'm not saying that there might not be such a report out there somewhere,
but so far no one on this ng has been able to produce it.

Your move.

Jim


I guess you didn't like Jeff's post.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Capt. JG wrote:

"JimC" wrote in message
. ..


Capt. JG wrote:


"JimC" wrote in message
.net...



Again, despite the thousands of Mac 26's out there sailed in US and
foreign waters, we have NO reports of Mac 26M's breaking up and sinking
in ANY conditions. NONE!

Have a nice day Salty.

Jim



Please prove this. I see no evidence of this in your post.


We (those posting on alt.sailing.asa) have so far been unable to provide
ANY reports of Mac26M's breaking up and sinking under ANY conditions. If
you think this statement is incorrect in any respect, please identify the
source you think contradicts it. Or, if you have other sources that would
contradict it, post those as well (or instead).

I'm not saying that there might not be such a report out there somewhere,
but so far no one on this ng has been able to produce it.

Your move.

Jim



I guess you didn't like Jeff's post.

Here's my response to Jeff:



Jeff, like Ganz, you seem to love posting responses to what you THINK I
said, or what you would LIKED for me to have said, or what your
caracature of Mac owners WOULD have said, rather than what I did say. As
previously noted, I have not stated that the Mac is suitable for
extensive blue water sailing or extended crossings. In fact, I said just
the opposite, that it isn't a blue water boat suited for extended
crossings.

Note also that I didn't say that they are routinely sailed offshore in
difficult conditions. - I merely stated that if Joe had been on a
Mac26, with its positive floatation, I thought his boat would have
stayed afloat, permitting him to recover it rather than having it sink
to the floor of the Gulf of Mexico.

Please note that it wasn't me who initiated the assertions that the Mac
would break up and sink (or roll over and over like a washing machine)
in heavy weather conditions. - It was Ganz, and a few of his
Mac-baching buddies.

MY ASSERTION WAS THAT NEITHER GANZ, OR ANY OF HIS MAC-BASHING BUDDIES,
HAVE PROVIDED ANY EVIDENCE THAT THE MAC WOULD BREAK UP AND SINK IN HEAVY
WEATHER CONDITIONS.

I stand by and will continue to support THAT assertion. However, don't
put words in my mouth and ask me to support assertions you wish I had
made, or thought I had made, but didn't.

Jim

JimC wrote:

I'm not saying that there might not be such a report out there
somewhere, but so far no one on this ng has been able to produce it.

Your move.
I see no reports of flying pigs crashing to the ground, therefore pigs
can fly.

Are really that dense?

Cheers
Marty

"Marty" wrote in message
...
JimC wrote:

I'm not saying that there might not be such a report out there somewhere,
but so far no one on this ng has been able to produce it.

Your move.
I see no reports of flying pigs crashing to the ground, therefore pigs can
fly.

Are really that dense?

Cheers
Marty


Wait.. right there. You missed it!

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Capt. JG wrote:
"Marty" wrote in message
...
JimC wrote:
I'm not saying that there might not be such a report out there somewhere,
but so far no one on this ng has been able to produce it.

Your move.
I see no reports of flying pigs crashing to the ground, therefore pigs can
fly.

Are really that dense?

Cheers
Marty


Wait.. right there. You missed it!



Jon, there are four possibilities he

1) JimC is just playing devils advocate and is having fun being
deliberately obtuse.

2) JimC has a serious mental deficiency and actually believes a Mac26X
to be a fine sailing vessel suitable for competition in the TransPac.

3) JimC is in the employ of MacGregor, and or owns shares in the company.

4) Some combination of the above.

Cheers
Marty

"Marty" wrote in message
...
Capt. JG wrote:
"Marty" wrote in message
...
JimC wrote:
I'm not saying that there might not be such a report out there
somewhere, but so far no one on this ng has been able to produce it.

Your move.
I see no reports of flying pigs crashing to the ground, therefore pigs
can fly.

Are really that dense?

Cheers
Marty


Wait.. right there. You missed it!



Jon, there are four possibilities he

1) JimC is just playing devils advocate and is having fun being
deliberately obtuse.

2) JimC has a serious mental deficiency and actually believes a Mac26X to
be a fine sailing vessel suitable for competition in the TransPac.

3) JimC is in the employ of MacGregor, and or owns shares in the company.

4) Some combination of the above.

Cheers
Marty


I think there's a #5... Macs are, in fact, the most seaworthy boats that are
designed for the rigorous conditions one could encounter anywhere in the
vast oceans. Not only be unsinkable, even by fools such as us, they are
fast, look great, and are only sold to sailors who are the most deserving of
them - highly skilled seafarers of which there are few. The reason that we
believe they don't participate in competitions, such as the TransPac, is
because of the evil media, who are in cahoots with the other manufacturers.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Marty wrote:

Capt. JG wrote:

"Marty" wrote in message
...

JimC wrote:

I'm not saying that there might not be such a report out there
somewhere, but so far no one on this ng has been able to produce it.

Your move.

I see no reports of flying pigs crashing to the ground, therefore
pigs can fly.

Are really that dense?

Cheers
Marty



Wait.. right there. You missed it!



Jon, there are four possibilities he

1) JimC is just playing devils advocate and is having fun being
deliberately obtuse.

2) JimC has a serious mental deficiency and actually believes a Mac26X
to be a fine sailing vessel suitable for competition in the TransPac.

3) JimC is in the employ of MacGregor, and or owns shares in the company.

4) Some combination of the above.

Cheers
Marty

Actually, JimC is responding to every rational (or even arguably
rational) note posted by any and all Mac-Bashers on the newsgroup. -
Come one, come all, and I'll provide a response. (Except for those in
bad taste, and obviously sicko remarks such as those recently posted by
Ganz. - He's obviously loosing it.)

What JimC is NOT going to do is post responses to Mac-Bashers asking him
to defend positions that he doesn't hold, or statements he didn't make.

Jim