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#111
posted to rec.boats.cruising,alt.sailing.asa
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I decided
JimC wrote:
Obviously, you have no knowledge of the design and construction of the Mac 26M. Obviously, you have no knowledge of what I know. Is the vigorous assertion of other's ignorance your only evidence that you know anything at all, much less about sailing? .... In contrast to your assertion, it is made with multiple fiberglas-resin layups, NOT CHOPPER GUNS. WOW! "Multiple fiberglas-resin layups" ?!? Does that mean it has, like, more than one layer of fiberglass? Amazing technological breakthrough! BTW if you look at the video of the Mac 26M being built, you will see a guy with a bunny suit & a respirator with no cartridges using a chopper gun. IIRC the announcer is talking about fiberglass lay-ups while showing this, maybe that's where you get the idea. Actually, using a chopper gun is not a bad way to add stiffness to a fiberglass structure. Used *between* layers of cloth/roving, it functions in much the same manner as a core material, but with better cross-linking. And it adds a lot of weight. The reason why chopper gun laminations have such a bad rap is mainly years of boat advertisement saying how bad it is, of course we don't use it. ... And many Mac 26 owners (in the US and in foreign waters) have taken their boats offshore. Do tell. How many have sailed their boats through 40+ knot winds and 10'+ breaking seas? I bet.... none! ... Yet so far, no one (on this ng or on the Mac owners ng) has even heard of ANY Mac26 breaking up and sinking, in heavy weather conditions, collisions, or other forms of stress. Well, you of course will insist this can't possibly be true, but I know of two Mac 26X/Ms having structural failure due to fairly normal stress. No wait, three. 1- rested on an anchor at low tide, ripping a large hole in the hull. This was only into the ballast tank, so the boat refloated just fine when the tide came back in. However, the boat sailed even worse than before. 2- hit an unknown floating object, tearing rudder off the transom. Due to lack of backing plates, the holes where the bolts pulled thru were small. Darn clever, those Mac engineers! 3- bumped repeatedly against dock in brief squall, cracking topsides and opening seam along hull/deck joint. None of these boats sank, it's true. But they all needed major repair before "sailing" again. Two were sold immediately afterwards by the owenrs... hey, maybe this explains why you don't hear about it on the Mac-Crack-Cult-Gathering discussion forums. DSK |
#112
posted to rec.boats.cruising,alt.sailing.asa
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I decided
On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 09:06:33 -0400, jeff wrote:
Perhaps true, but we do have evidence of drowning on a Mac that rolled over. Does the fact the the boat didn't sink make you feel better? Was it dismasted in the rollover? Why did the rollover occur ? |
#113
posted to rec.boats.cruising,alt.sailing.asa
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I decided
Wayne.B wrote:
On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 09:06:33 -0400, jeff wrote: Perhaps true, but we do have evidence of drowning on a Mac that rolled over. Does the fact the the boat didn't sink make you feel better? Was it dismasted in the rollover? Why did the rollover occur ? It was on July 4th, about 6 years ago. Calm night, a large crowd watching fireworks. The Mac had been borrowed by a brother-in-law, who had only used it a few times. There were 8 adults on deck, some standing forward, and three small kids below. The cause of the rollover is unclear, but I assume after weighing anchor the skipper goosed the throttle with the helm over, and the boat lurched. It was probably pulled over by someone hanging onto the shrouds. Two of the kids below drowned. There was a big trial, experts for both sides. I think USSailing actually sent witnesses against Mac. In the end Mac avoided paying damages because the skipper was drunk. Of course, everyone else out there (and half the boaters across the country) was drunk that night, but only these two kids died. I always thought that incident was the reason why Mac added some ballast in the new design. JimC would like to write this off as just a drunk operator incident, but frankly, it happened so quickly and was so unexpected, that it might have happened even if he was sober. My issue is that 8 adults is not normally gross overloading on a 26 foot boat, and goosing the throttle on a typical sailboat does not instantly create a dangerous situation. Given that Macs are often sold to novices, the description of this event should be required reading by all Mac owners. http://www.ne-ts.com/ar/ar-407capsize.html |
#114
posted to rec.boats.cruising,alt.sailing.asa
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I decided
On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 13:09:26 -0400, jeff wrote:
JimC would like to write this off as just a drunk operator incident, but frankly, it happened so quickly and was so unexpected, that it might have happened even if he was sober. My issue is that 8 adults is not normally gross overloading on a 26 foot boat, and goosing the throttle on a typical sailboat does not instantly create a dangerous situation. Given that Macs are often sold to novices, the description of this event should be required reading by all Mac owners. http://www.ne-ts.com/ar/ar-407capsize.html ========================================= Tragic, too many people plus a design weakness. Bayliner had a similar issue back in the 80s with some of their small flybridge cruisers. With too much weight on the flybridge they would flop over and capsize in a hard turn. Problem was solved with a warning sticker. |
#115
posted to rec.boats.cruising,alt.sailing.asa
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I decided
"Wayne.B" wrote in message ... On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 13:09:26 -0400, jeff wrote: JimC would like to write this off as just a drunk operator incident, but frankly, it happened so quickly and was so unexpected, that it might have happened even if he was sober. My issue is that 8 adults is not normally gross overloading on a 26 foot boat, and goosing the throttle on a typical sailboat does not instantly create a dangerous situation. Given that Macs are often sold to novices, the description of this event should be required reading by all Mac owners. http://www.ne-ts.com/ar/ar-407capsize.html ========================================= Tragic, too many people plus a design weakness. Bayliner had a similar issue back in the 80s with some of their small flybridge cruisers. With too much weight on the flybridge they would flop over and capsize in a hard turn. Problem was solved with a warning sticker. Problem solved with a warning sticker!!! That is just the builder covering his backside as best he can. The builders of the capsized Mac said they put a sticker on when it was built but the evidence indicated that it was not there at the time of the accident. Eight adults on the deck of what was in effect a large unballasted dinghy is a recipe for disaster because it constitutes overloading anyway and the weight of all on deck was so high up that if the boat heels even in a gentle turn it is going right over if there is no ballast in the keel to restrain it.. There is no mystery at all about the cause of the tragedy but it does indicate that this is not a boat that anyone without training about the water ballast and the max no of passengers can just drive away safely |
#116
posted to rec.boats.cruising,alt.sailing.asa
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I decided
Capt. JG wrote: "JimC" wrote in message ... snipping Zzzzzz... this thread is dead Jim... LOL The string is dead? Well, some of us have interests and responsibilities beyond participating in such a discussion. Also, I spent the afternoon this Saturday sailing my boat, something I don't seem often to see with respect to you and your buddies posting in this string. - It's strange, but you and most of your anti-Mac buddies seem to get their jollies from bashing us Mac sailors, whereas we Mac sailors get pleasure from sailing our Macs. But I'll get back to you, and also to your Mac-bashing buddies. That's a promise. Jim |
#117
posted to rec.boats.cruising,alt.sailing.asa
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I decided
JimC wrote:
Capt. JG wrote: "JimC" wrote in message ... snipping Zzzzzz... this thread is dead Jim... LOL The string is dead? Well, some of us have interests and responsibilities beyond participating in such a discussion. Also, I spent the afternoon this Saturday sailing my boat, something I don't seem often to see with respect to you and your buddies posting in this string. - It's strange, but you and most of your anti-Mac buddies seem to get their jollies from bashing us Mac sailors, whereas we Mac sailors get pleasure from sailing our Macs. But I'll get back to you, and also to your Mac-bashing buddies. That's a promise. Getting a bit paranoid there Jim. Nobody was bashing Macs, just bashing the idea that they were sufficiently seaworthy as to be taken off shore and brave open ocean storms. Now go take a pill and relax, Macs have their place, as do canoes and paddle boats. Cheers Marty Jim |
#118
posted to rec.boats.cruising,alt.sailing.asa
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I decided
"JimC" wrote in message
... Capt. JG wrote: "JimC" wrote in message ... snipping Zzzzzz... this thread is dead Jim... LOL The string is dead? Well, some of us have interests and responsibilities beyond participating in such a discussion. Also, I spent the afternoon this Saturday sailing my boat, something I don't seem often to see with respect to you and your buddies posting in this string. - It's strange, but you and most of your anti-Mac buddies seem to get their jollies from bashing us Mac sailors, whereas we Mac sailors get pleasure from sailing our Macs. But I'll get back to you, and also to your Mac-bashing buddies. That's a promise. Jim Really? Gee, I was sailing before the Strictly Sail show today... on an actual sailboat that doesn't capsize when you make a hard turn. No pleasure there... nope, none at all! -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
#119
posted to rec.boats.cruising,alt.sailing.asa
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I decided
"Marty" wrote in message
... JimC wrote: Capt. JG wrote: "JimC" wrote in message ... snipping Zzzzzz... this thread is dead Jim... LOL The string is dead? Well, some of us have interests and responsibilities beyond participating in such a discussion. Also, I spent the afternoon this Saturday sailing my boat, something I don't seem often to see with respect to you and your buddies posting in this string. - It's strange, but you and most of your anti-Mac buddies seem to get their jollies from bashing us Mac sailors, whereas we Mac sailors get pleasure from sailing our Macs. But I'll get back to you, and also to your Mac-bashing buddies. That's a promise. Getting a bit paranoid there Jim. Nobody was bashing Macs, just bashing the idea that they were sufficiently seaworthy as to be taken off shore and brave open ocean storms. Now go take a pill and relax, Macs have their place, as do canoes and paddle boats. Cheers Marty Jim That's right Marty... in fact, as the chief Mac-basher (apparently) I said near those exact words, but Jim doesn't want to hear... -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
#120
posted to rec.boats.cruising,alt.sailing.asa
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I decided
wrote in message
... On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 18:47:19 -0400, Marty wrote: JimC wrote: Capt. JG wrote: "JimC" wrote in message ... snipping Zzzzzz... this thread is dead Jim... LOL The string is dead? Well, some of us have interests and responsibilities beyond participating in such a discussion. Also, I spent the afternoon this Saturday sailing my boat, something I don't seem often to see with respect to you and your buddies posting in this string. - It's strange, but you and most of your anti-Mac buddies seem to get their jollies from bashing us Mac sailors, whereas we Mac sailors get pleasure from sailing our Macs. But I'll get back to you, and also to your Mac-bashing buddies. That's a promise. Getting a bit paranoid there Jim. Nobody was bashing Macs, just bashing the idea that they were sufficiently seaworthy as to be taken off shore and brave open ocean storms. Now go take a pill and relax, Macs have their place, as do canoes and paddle boats. And pool noodles! I love pool noodles! We had them by the dozens on Lake Mead last summer... so much fun! Yeah! -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
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