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#1
posted to rec.boats.cruising,alt.sailing.asa
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I decided
Capt. JG wrote: "JimC" wrote in message ... Wayne.B wrote: On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 11:01:00 -0600, JimC wrote: You also say that the Macs will simply "break up" in heavy seas. Again, where is your evidence, other than anecdotes and hearsay, supporting this assertion? His assertion is based on common sense, and the fact that the boat is not designed or built for off-shore conditions. Where is your evidence that the boat will not break up in heavy seas? I haven't heard of any ongoing problem with Macs breaking apart and sinking in heavy seas. - Have you? Fortunately, most people, even those who buy Macs, don't take them out there. But, feel free and send us a report! It's not impossible, plenty of other boats have met that fate. Pick one up 30 feet into the air and drop it to the water a few times. That will give you a good idea where the weak spots are. I suppose that if someone had some evidence that Macs subjected to heavy seas and/or severe stress have been breaking apart and sinking I might reconsider my opinion. Meanwhile, it seems that neither you or the Capt. have any evidence to back up your assertions. I do agree that "it's not impossible." - I'm just not sure how I'm going to pick it up 30 feet in the air and drop it into the water several times. That's quite a consession. Would you concede that if we drop it off a 10-story apartment building it might "break up"? Careful how you answer.... OK.- Being very, very careful .... I suspect that if the Mac were dropped off a 10-story building, it might suffer severe structural damage. Once again, however, I don't know how I would manage the logistics of such an experiment. To summarize this little discussion, it's become quite clear that, other than anecdotes, hearsay, speculation, and the usual ridicule and sarcasm, there is no evidence supporting 99% of the negative comments regarding the Mac26M. - As I initially noted. Jim |
#2
posted to rec.boats.cruising,alt.sailing.asa
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I decided
"JimC" wrote in message
.. . That's quite a consession. Would you concede that if we drop it off a 10-story apartment building it might "break up"? Careful how you answer.... OK.- Being very, very careful .... I suspect that if the Mac were dropped off a 10-story building, it might suffer severe structural damage. Once again, however, I don't know how I would manage the logistics of such an experiment. Try going out in a storm. Water isn't so soft as you think, and when your nice little Mac goes flying off the top of 30 foot wave, then gets pounded by another one, and another, and another, you'll know the answer. To summarize this little discussion, it's become quite clear that, other than anecdotes, hearsay, speculation, and the usual ridicule and sarcasm, there is no evidence supporting 99% of the negative comments regarding the Mac26M. - As I initially noted. You're right. It just takes common sense. The Mac is a great boat for protected waters and light winds with small waves. Any place else, and you can't blame the boat for the consequences. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
#3
posted to rec.boats.cruising,alt.sailing.asa
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I decided
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#4
posted to rec.boats.cruising,alt.sailing.asa
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I decided
wrote in message
... On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 21:51:14 -0700, "Capt. JG" wrote: "JimC" wrote in message ... That's quite a consession. Would you concede that if we drop it off a 10-story apartment building it might "break up"? Careful how you answer.... OK.- Being very, very careful .... I suspect that if the Mac were dropped off a 10-story building, it might suffer severe structural damage. Once again, however, I don't know how I would manage the logistics of such an experiment. Try going out in a storm. Water isn't so soft as you think, and when your nice little Mac goes flying off the top of 30 foot wave, then gets pounded by another one, and another, and another, you'll know the answer. To summarize this little discussion, it's become quite clear that, other than anecdotes, hearsay, speculation, and the usual ridicule and sarcasm, there is no evidence supporting 99% of the negative comments regarding the Mac26M. - As I initially noted. You're right. It just takes common sense. The Mac is a great boat for protected waters and light winds with small waves. Any place else, and you can't blame the boat for the consequences. Yeah, blame the sales brochure! I was blaming the salesman with the slicked back hair. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
#5
posted to rec.boats.cruising,alt.sailing.asa
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I decided
JimC wrote:
To summarize this little discussion, it's become quite clear that, other than anecdotes, hearsay, speculation, and the usual ridicule and sarcasm, there is no evidence supporting 99% of the negative comments regarding the Mac26M. - As I initially noted. If I use your methodology, since no one has directly disproved the ability of Mac26 to be a perfectly survivable and utile manned orbital vehicle, one would be remiss to suggest that to try this would be folly. Cheers Marty |
#6
posted to rec.boats.cruising,alt.sailing.asa
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I decided
JimC wrote:
To summarize this little discussion, it's become quite clear that, other than anecdotes, hearsay, speculation, and the usual ridicule and sarcasm, there is no evidence supporting 99% of the negative comments regarding the Mac26M. - As I initially noted. You're just like the little old lady who has 47 cats... anybody who thinks it's not great just plain HATES KITTYS, and must therefor be a barbarian. I've had cats, and still prefer dogs. I've sailed a Mac 26X, sailed in company with the 26M (which despite all ad copy, and your protestation, is pretty much the same boat)... and they don't sail very well, period. BTW I've also sailed the older Mac 26 which was a much better sailing boat, and a number of the yet-older Ventures. Martin Baxter wrote: If I use your methodology, since no one has directly disproved the ability of Mac26 to be a perfectly survivable and utile manned orbital vehicle, one would be remiss to suggest that to try this would be folly. Obviously you have no knowledge or experience with the heat-shielding properties of un cored fiberglass, with a high proportion of chopper gun. The Mac 26X (or the MUCH BETTER 26M) would be far better as a reentry vehicle than most conventional sailboats. DSK |
#7
posted to rec.boats.cruising,alt.sailing.asa
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I decided
wrote in message
... JimC wrote: To summarize this little discussion, it's become quite clear that, other than anecdotes, hearsay, speculation, and the usual ridicule and sarcasm, there is no evidence supporting 99% of the negative comments regarding the Mac26M. - As I initially noted. You're just like the little old lady who has 47 cats... anybody who thinks it's not great just plain HATES KITTYS, and must therefor be a barbarian. I've had cats, and still prefer dogs. I've sailed a Mac 26X, sailed in company with the 26M (which despite all ad copy, and your protestation, is pretty much the same boat)... and they don't sail very well, period. BTW I've also sailed the older Mac 26 which was a much better sailing boat, and a number of the yet-older Ventures. Martin Baxter wrote: If I use your methodology, since no one has directly disproved the ability of Mac26 to be a perfectly survivable and utile manned orbital vehicle, one would be remiss to suggest that to try this would be folly. Obviously you have no knowledge or experience with the heat-shielding properties of un cored fiberglass, with a high proportion of chopper gun. The Mac 26X (or the MUCH BETTER 26M) would be far better as a reentry vehicle than most conventional sailboats. DSK Not after I hack it up with a chainsaw... LOL I have a friend who has one of the older Macs. He reinforced a lot of stuff and sails in the bay. Does fine... knowing the limitations of his boat. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
#8
posted to rec.boats.cruising,alt.sailing.asa
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I decided
"Capt. JG" wrote:
I have a friend who has one of the older Macs. He reinforced a lot of stuff and sails in the bay. Does fine... knowing the limitations of his boat. Well, the limits of the boat are still beyond the limits of the sailor, in most cases. The MacGregor / Venture line was never high-end, not after the "blue- water cruiser" market or the "America's Cup" market. But there are a heck of a lot of them out there and many are still sailing after all these years. The decks flex sure, but the only time I have known one to suffer major structural failure was while trailering... hit by another car... A lot of the MacGregor boats sail quite well, probably the older swing- keel Mac 25 was the best (before the water ballast craze). Unfortunately the 26X/M nonsense has ruined what reputation the older models had. DSK |
#9
posted to rec.boats.cruising,alt.sailing.asa
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I decided
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#10
posted to rec.boats.cruising,alt.sailing.asa
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I decided
JimC wrote:
keep that tendency a secret. - Yet so far, no one (on this ng or on the Mac owners ng) has even heard of ANY Mac26 breaking up and sinking, in heavy weather conditions, collisions, or other forms of stress. Nor has anyone posted any credible evidence of a Mac26m/x surviving such conditions. Perhaps because no one has been stupid enough to try it. Cheers Marty |
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