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I decided
Capt. JG wrote: "JimC" wrote in message ... Capt. JG wrote: "JimC" wrote in message t... Capt. JG wrote: "JimC" wrote in message ... Actually, Neal, that would have been a good choice. To cite just one factor, if Joe had been sailing a Mac26M, with its positive floatation, the boat would have survived and wouldn't have been dragged to the bottom by its keel. And of course, if you had a Mac (instead of your no-boat-at-all), you could spend more time sailing and less time posting childish, vacuous notes on this ng. But of course, you didn't make a decision to get a Mac or a decision to get anything else for that matter, so we can look forward to more of your never-ending sophistry. Jim Neal is an idiot, but besides that, if you were on your Mac in the conditions Joe described, you would surely be a greater idiot than Neal (even he isn't suicidal). Assuming the boat can't sink (which I seriously doubt - given the pounding it would endure, it would likely break up), it would be dismasted for sure. Then, (not that sailing would have ever been an option), your only chance for survival would be below decks, while the boat rolled over and over and over, perhaps even pitchpolling from time to time. It would be like being in a washing machine with heavy and sharp objects. You'd find yourself in a non-habitable environment of flying hazards including yourself that would break your bones into mush. In desperation to escape, you would vacate the premises, and then either be thrown off the boat by the wave action or you would remove yourself from the boat deliberately. Either way, you wouldn't survive. Actually, Captain, your conclusions are unfounded and your assertions unsupported. Of course, I didn't say that I would want to take my Mac 200 miles offshore, nor would I recommend it to anyone else. What I DID say was that if Joe were offshore in a Mac26M, the boat would have stayed afloat and would not have been dragged to the bottom of the Gulf by a heavy keel. (Also, if Neal had a Mac 26M instead of his no-boat-at-all, he could spend more of his time sailing instead of posting negative, critical notes on this ng.) You claim that the Mac would have "rolled over and over and over, perhaps even picthcpolling [sic]." This, of course, may be your opinion, and actually I don't question that you sincerely believe this to be the case. But, other than your own personal biases, what evidence to you have to support this assertion? - Is it the usual negative bias against the Macs that you think you can safely rely on? Is it the fact that you don't think anyone on this ng would want to question any negative bull**** posted on the ng regarding the Macs? Or, alternatively (and assuming that the skipper wasn't drunk and didn't go offshore with an empty ballast tank, and that he had enough sense to put out a storm anchor), do you actually have some valid evidence or proof supporting your assertions? -Including your assertion that the the Macs will roll over and over and over and over again in heavy seas, and perhaps pitchpoll? If the latter, i.e., if you have some valid evidence, let's see the evidence and statistics supporting your theories. You also say that the Macs will simply "break up" in heavy seas. Again, where is your evidence, other than anecdotes and hearsay, supporting this assertion? And to anyone else who wants to bash the Macs, WHERE IS YOUR EVIDENCE, OTHER THAN ANECDOTES AND HEARSAY?) Like, put up or shut up. In any event, despite all the supercilious anti-Mac propaganda, the fact remains that the Mac 26s are one of the few boats over 25 feet (not the only one, but one of the few) to have positive floatation. Jim Are you claiming that a dismasted boat in heavy seas won't roll? What I am claiming is that you have no evidence to back up your assertions, and that perhaps you ought to qualify them. As to any susceptibility of the boat to roll, I (and others) have tried to pull it over with pulleys for cleaning. While initially tender, after a few degrees of heel it rapidly becomes very stiff and resistant to further movement. If dismasted, the ballast would still be functional, and I'm assuming the skipper would have put out a sea anchor. I'm not saying that the boat wouldn't roll under any circumstances, but that's not going to be easy to accomplish, and the boat tends to right itself quickly. If so, well QED. No on besides yourself would even consider taking a Mac out in those conditions, so you're right I have absolutely NO evidence. LOL It would be nice if you would respond to what I actually said rather than what you would have liked for me to say. - I didn't say I would take the boat 200 miles offshore. In fact, I said that I WOULDN'T want to take the boat 200 miles offshore. Nevertheless, the boat is built to float even if the hull is compromised and even if, under some strange circumstance, the boat rolled. As unpleasant as that would be, it would be better than being on a conventional boat while it was being pulled to the bottom by its heay keel. In contrast, in the Mac, unless the hull is completely torn apart, there is sufficient floatation to keep the boat afloat even if the hull is compromised. I said that you have no evidence, other than anecdotes and hearsay, to back up your assertions. Thanks for proving my point. LOL. Jim I absolutely have evidence that a dismasting will cause a capsize in heavy seas. Pulling a boat over is quite, quite different than being on the ocean in heavy seas. Is there some evidence you would like to present that shows this isn't true? Have you ever been in a boat rolling from side to side in ocean conditions? I have.- But do you have evidence that a dismasted M26 would roll over in heavy seas? - That happens to be the issue of this particular discussion. So, you're saying that because a boat supposedly will continue to float means that it won't capsize over and over? Did I say that? Don't think so. Perhaps you should read Fastnet Force 10, and get back to us. That's exactly what happened to several boats. They continued to float, yet rolled over and over to the point where the crews abandoned them (to their peril). You're assuming a situation that likely will not be possible after a dismasting with someone trying to stay on a boat that is totally unstable. That's a pretty weak assumption. Again, do you have any evidence (other than anecdotes, hearsay, or speculation) that the Mac 26Ms typically become "totally unstable" in such conditions? No? I didn't think so. From your last statement, it's pretty clear that you don't know much about boats. A dismasting in and of itself, doesn't cause a sinking. Once again, did I say that? Don't think so. If the boat is water-tight, a relatively straightforward thing to do, then the boat won't sink. The interior will become untenable, however, pretty quickly. I love it... "as unpleasant as that would be." Now that's truly funny. Keep at it Jim, you're providing lots of cheap laughs, again proving my point... QED. You seem to think that I'm slamming that piece of garbage Mac in this post. I'm not man..... LOL So you're not slamming the Macs after all Capt? Really? - You certainly had me fooled. Jim |
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