Larry brought forth on stone tablets:
Joe wrote in news:1182266139.160045.296860
@n2g2000hse.googlegroups.com:


Has anyone here converted your boats engine over to burn bio-fuels?

The smell of french fry, or duncan doughnuts exhaust fumes sure would
be nicer than diesel.

Here in Houston we have a dealer than will deliver and it's cheaper
than Diesel fuel.

Joe




Not my boat, but my GM V-8 diesel stepvan (1989), two diesel Mercedes
cars ('73 220D and '83 300 TD turbodiesel 5-cyl). Will that do?

We don't buy fuel. Fuel is free for the asking at any Chinese
restaurant! 3 of us have Frybrids (www.frybrid.com) but, since
installing the Frybrid package in the V-8 diesel stepvan, I found it was
totally unnecessary overkill in South Carolina. You need it "up Nawth" in
the freezing cold, but not in the South. The Frybrid was about $1600 and
I paid my mechanic another thousand to install it all. Check the webpage
for its operation, which is very nice.

Both Mercedes cars are running on filtered used veggie oil, like the
truck, but after viewing a TV program of a Volvo diesel sedan running on
homebrew oil, I tried it and it works great with no outlay, other than
buying some mineral spirits cheap from the paint supply wholesaler. In
England, they use mineral spirits because it has no VAT tax ripoff on it.
I was using 20% gasoline and 80% veggie oil, but have cut the Arabs and
Bushes out of my wallet switching to 1 quart of mineral spirits to 20
gallons of veggie oil.

Our veggie oil facility is in George's warehouse. He's in the trucking
business with a Frybrid 300SD long wheelbase Mercedes sedan. Mike is a
car mechanic and owns a Frybrid VW diesel. The three of us call our
endeavour The French Fried Oil Company, a tongue-in-cheek conglomerate.
With my veggie powered truck, I'm in pickup and transportation, George
provides the warehouse space, which gets larger as time goes on, and Mike
provides pipette and filter services to polish the finished product to
our 55 gallon drums with electric pumps in them. Everyone has keys to
the warehouse for 24/7 fuel oil service.

Our method is really simple. Veggie oil comes to the restaurants in 5
gallon "boxes", pasteboard boxes with thin plastic jugs in them. We
provide the restaurants with a large steel filter funnel that has a fine
screen in it to filter out most of the crap as they pour the used oil
back into the containers it came in after it cools. Taking these
containers also reduces the restaurants' disposal costs along with
eliminating their oil disposal service costs. They love us...even feed
me when I pickup a couple of hundred gallons..(c; We save them quite a
bit of money!

I transport the boxes to the warehouse and mark the date on each box.
Boxes must sit, totally unmoved, for 1 month. Typically, they sit 3 to 5
months, now as our consumption cannot match our supply. In a month, or
more, all the remaining solids settle to a very thin layer in the bottom
of the boxes. Mike's suction pipette reaches down to within 3" of the
bottom of each box. An electric oil gear pump pulls a vacuum on two
large commercial truck fuel filter/water separators who draw the oil out
of the boxes, filter it to .5 microns, slowly, and pump the clean oil
into a 55 gallon finished product drum. We have 6 drums he keeps
filling. We pump that straight into the oil tanks on their cars and my
truck. Another drum is marked LARRY and this drum contains the mineral
spirits - veggie oil homebrew biodiesel I pour directly into the tanks on
the Mercedes cars I own, totally unmodified. The mineral spirits thin
the heavier oil so the stock injection system works as good as my
gas/veggie mix I used last winter. I figure it costs about 12 US cents
per US gallon....lots cheaper than a Frybrid.

I recently bought a Chinese 6KVA, single cylinder, 3600 RPM diesel genset
with battery starting in a nice quieting cabinet from Pep Boys for $1599.
The odd-sounding Chinese company I don't have the name of at the moment
is an ISO 9003 certified company and it shows in the genset's quality and
workmanship. It had an initial tank of diesel fuel when I insisted on
hearing it before buying it. I had to prime it myself because the whole
shop full of car mechanics didn't have a clue as to what I was talking
about and I didn't want them to keep cranking and ruin my new
battery/starter trying to initially start it. If you want it done right,
you have to do it yourself! As the tank emptied, I filled it with my
mineral spirits/veggie homebrew and it cranked right up. I now have 6KW
of emergency power that will only cost me some mineral spirits and lube
oil (it holds 2 quarts) that will run as long as I like. My neighbor
bought a longer drop cord so he doesn't have to sit in the dark...(c;

In a boat, the only drawback would be hauling it all the way to the boat
in the drum....not fun. I suppose you COULD reuse the 5 gallon boxes in
a dock cart just fine. We're throwing away an awful lot of boxes every
month.

My new Honda 250cc scooter is gas......dammit....(c;

Larry


Perhaps someone with *marine* veggie oil or biodiesel experience can
allay my fears of starting the world's largest bacterial colony in my
fuel tanks if I fill up with one of these alternatives. For goodness
sakes, the bugs eat the *diesel* if only there is a little water present!


Now, I know in a land vehicle, bacterial growth is likely not to be a
problem because the tanks are so much smaller, and the thruput is a lot
higher. But on my sailboat, if I fill up (350 gallons), that will last
me 2 years or more of cruising and living on the boat. That is a long
time for the bugs to get going...

bob
s/v Eolian
Seattle

" wrote in
oups.com:

Maybe someone in the group knows more about this and if
there are any useful additives (I'm guessing detergent and lubricant)
that you might want to think about...



Fuel oil, including dino diesel #2 and canola/corn oil IS LUBRICANT!
More oil company disinformation. I know a guy with 160K miles on a
Cummins 6-cylinder diesel Dodge pickup that's only had one tank of diesel
fuel in it since it was new. It's running on the same injection pump.

Of course, my old Mercedes 220D isn't a fair comparison. Its injection
pump has a SEPARATE OIL SUMP filled with SAE 30 motor oil that's changed
out at 60K miles since 1972. When we overhauled the little 4-cyl 2.2L
diesel, we sent the pump in for overhaul. It came back with a note
asking what we wanted them to do to it. After 25 years, it was well
within tolerances in pressure and fuel delivery quantity requiring no
service. We refilled it with fresh lube oil and put it back on the
restored engine block. I'm still driving it another 90K later....(c;

What? You mean if it has its own LUBE OIL it will last 30 years of
everyday driving? Isn't that against the law?!

The injection pump in my 300TD 5-cyl turbodiesel uses dirty crankcase oil
to lube it, which gets changed at 3000 miles. I don't like it, but it's
also still running fine at 250K miles and 24 years.

I told the Mercedes dealer I was gonna buy a new car....as soon as I
figured out how to wear these old ones out! He looked upset....(c;

Larry
--
http://www.spp.gov/
The end of the USA and its Constitution....RIP

You wrote:

Just remember that MythBusters is a Southern Kalifornia production, and
if you tried that in Frostbite Falls Minisota, in the winter you would be
doing a lot of walking or rowing as the case may be. Diesel #2 doesn't
even think of gelling untill your down to 10F and Diesel #1 clear down
to -30F or lower. Frier Grease will turn solid at 40F if your not
careful.

yes, yes ,yes...nothing new here...you have to mix pump diesel into your biodiesel in northern climes
in the winter.

the_bmac wrote in :

yes, yes ,yes...nothing new here...you have to mix pump diesel into
your biodiesel in northern climes in the winter.



Nope. http://www.frybrid.com/

Runs straight oil at -40F. Take a look...(c;

Larry
--
http://www.spp.gov/
The end of the USA and its Constitution....RIP

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 10:10:37 -0700, "
wrote:

...
Deisel engines are designed to run on this stuff but it depends on the
level of filtering that has been done to it. ...

I was jawing with the guy at the counter of the local injector pump
specialists a couple of months ago and he claimed that bio-diesel was
causing pump failures. His assertion was that regular diesel has
lubricants added to it and that even commercially available bio-diesel
doesn't and that this resulted in much more serious pump wear. I
don't really have any idea how true that is though he did a good
looking job of rebuilding the pump so I guess he isn't a total
wacko... Maybe someone in the group knows more about this and if
there are any useful additives (I'm guessing detergent and lubricant)
that you might want to think about...

-- Tom.


The guy at the counter was wrong. Diesel fuel has no added lubricant,
the diesel fuel is in itself provides all the lubrication the
injection system gets.

Vegetable oils are good lubricants as well. During WW I at least one
aircraft engine ran on straight caster oil. It was also used as a
racing lub for years.




Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeatgmaildotcom)

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 20:38:12 +0000, Larry wrote:

" wrote in
roups.com:

Maybe someone in the group knows more about this and if
there are any useful additives (I'm guessing detergent and lubricant)
that you might want to think about...



Fuel oil, including dino diesel #2 and canola/corn oil IS LUBRICANT!
More oil company disinformation. I know a guy with 160K miles on a
Cummins 6-cylinder diesel Dodge pickup that's only had one tank of diesel
fuel in it since it was new. It's running on the same injection pump.

Of course, my old Mercedes 220D isn't a fair comparison. Its injection
pump has a SEPARATE OIL SUMP filled with SAE 30 motor oil that's changed
out at 60K miles since 1972. When we overhauled the little 4-cyl 2.2L
diesel, we sent the pump in for overhaul. It came back with a note
asking what we wanted them to do to it. After 25 years, it was well
within tolerances in pressure and fuel delivery quantity requiring no
service. We refilled it with fresh lube oil and put it back on the
restored engine block. I'm still driving it another 90K later....(c;

What? You mean if it has its own LUBE OIL it will last 30 years of
everyday driving? Isn't that against the law?!

The injection pump in my 300TD 5-cyl turbodiesel uses dirty crankcase oil
to lube it, which gets changed at 3000 miles. I don't like it, but it's
also still running fine at 250K miles and 24 years.

I told the Mercedes dealer I was gonna buy a new car....as soon as I
figured out how to wear these old ones out! He looked upset....(c;

Larry

Separate oil systems for injection pumps were quite common at one
time. The oil actually lubricated the cam shaft that operated the
separate injection pumps. For some reason other manufacturers simply
flooded the pump casing with diesel and it seemed to work about as
well

The pump guys I've talked to reckon that most of the parts they change
in pumps or injectors wear because somebody didn't change the fuel
filters often enough.


Bruce in Bangkok
(brucepaigeatgmaildotcom)

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 20:21:33 +0000, Larry wrote:

Our method is really simple. Veggie oil comes to the restaurants in 5
gallon "boxes", pasteboard boxes with thin plastic jugs in them. We
provide the restaurants with a large steel filter funnel that has a fine
screen in it to filter out most of the crap as they pour the used oil
back into the containers it came in after it cools. Taking these
containers also reduces the restaurants' disposal costs along with
eliminating their oil disposal service costs. They love us...even feed
me when I pickup a couple of hundred gallons..(c; We save them quite a
bit of money!

Good on you Larry, for being innovative. Enjoy it while you can.
When 50 more people do it, Econ 101 will kick in, and the restaurant
owners will be asking highest bid for their old grease.
When a few hundred do it, the Chicago Board of Trade will initiate
future contracts. Shouts of "Buy 100 October OFG (Old Fry
Grease)!!!!" will ring out in the OFG pit, and industry experts will
blame the OFG futures speculators on the high cost of fuel.
Maybe you should lock these restaurants' oil in with a contract.
Who knows, you may be the next Rockefeller.

--Vic

"Larry" wrote in message
...
.


I transport the boxes to the warehouse and mark the date
on each box.
Boxes must sit, totally unmoved, for 1 month. Typically,
they sit 3 to 5
months, now as our consumption cannot match our supply.
In a month, or
more, all the remaining solids settle to a very thin layer
in the bottom
of the boxes. Mike's suction pipette reaches down to
within 3" of the
bottom of each box.

what do you do with the remaining 3'' of oil, and muck?

SBV

Larry wrote:
the_bmac wrote in :

yes, yes ,yes...nothing new here...you have to mix pump diesel into
your biodiesel in northern climes in the winter.



Nope. http://www.frybrid.com/

Runs straight oil at -40F. Take a look...(c;

yes, yes, yes...you have to mix pump diesel into biodiesel in northern climes...unless you pre-heat it
first...

Vic Smith wrote in
:

Good on you Larry, for being innovative. Enjoy it while you can.
When 50 more people do it, Econ 101 will kick in, and the restaurant
owners will be asking highest bid for their old grease.
When a few hundred do it, the Chicago Board of Trade will initiate
future contracts. Shouts of "Buy 100 October OFG (Old Fry
Grease)!!!!" will ring out in the OFG pit, and industry experts will
blame the OFG futures speculators on the high cost of fuel.
Maybe you should lock these restaurants' oil in with a contract.
Who knows, you may be the next Rockefeller.

--Vic


No, I suspect the next thing to happen is the oil companies' bribed
politicians will pass a law making it a felony to burn anything but oil
company fuel in any vehicle, driving us all underground. Remember the GM
EV-1 all the test owners loved and refused to give back to GM until GM
threatened them? That was about dealers bitching it didn't require
enough maintenance and oil company politicians telling GM to get rid of
it.

Our President owns oil companies, remember?

They'll find some environmental problem, even if there isn't one of
course, to ban it. It produces NO SULPHUR EMISSIONS, like diesel does.
It's not low sulphur...it's NO SULPHUR. So, we'll have to make it a
carcinogen killing the planet's children. Yeah, that'll work as a scare
tactic.



Larry
--
http://www.spp.gov/
The end of the USA and its Constitution....RIP