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Death Wish?
On May 18, 8:11 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote:
"Joe" wrote in message ups.com... On May 18, 10:28 am, "Capt. JG" wrote: "Joe" wrote in message groups.com... On May 17, 3:03 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote: "Scotty" wrote in message m... "Capt. JG" wrote in message ... "Joe" wrote in message Yeah, that's the ticket... fire or at least blame the workers for _negotiating_ successfully. the ''workers'', and I use that term loosely, only do / vote what the mob / union bosses tell them to. SBV So what? At this point, who's going to be harmed, according to Joe's post... the boss' or the workers? -- "j" ganz -Hidequoted text - - Show quoted text - Hey Jon. In case you have not noticed the Americaqn auto industry is in deep trouble because of all the dead weight the unions strapped them with. The American auto industry spends more money on heathcare for RETIRED employees than they spend on steel. Just how is any company going to make a profit when they are forking out so much? The only way they can compete in a world market is to start over without the dead weight. Joe Agreed. However, 100s of 1000s are dependent on the agreements that were reached when the industry was healthy. You can't cut people off at the knees, so something needs to be worked out... gee, here's a solution... universal healthcare. Everyone is then covered and the auto industry can recover. Sorry... I know that's pretty liberal of me. g -- "j" ganz -Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Well the union people and bean counters had billions to invest and manage to cover the cost of heathcare ect and did a **** poor job of it. When you retire you have the option of taking all your stock and selling it and investing in other forms of retirement. Let's face it, the days of 20 years with a company and a gold watch retirement party and lifetime pensions are over. If you wan't anything for your retirement you better leverage your career now and plan for your own retirement. Here is the choice (reality) for for the American auto industry. 1. Start over without all the dead weight, so we can compete on a world market. 2. No USA auto makers. Joe I guess that begs the question... do we need GM if Toyota builds cars in the US? -- "j" ganz - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I'll never buy a toyata, or any other jap mobile. Having a strong industrial base is what made our country great, you may be happy building Japan, but Id rather support Americans. If I had my way, I'd impose a trade tariff that would level the field with the japs and preserve the retirements that our mfgr's bear the burden of. 40-50% import tax. And no country would be able to sell us more than we sell them. Joe |
Death Wish?
On 18 May 2007 20:10:10 -0700, Joe wrote:
On May 18, 8:11 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote: "Joe" wrote in message ups.com... On May 18, 10:28 am, "Capt. JG" wrote: "Joe" wrote in message groups.com... On May 17, 3:03 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote: "Scotty" wrote in message m... "Capt. JG" wrote in message ... "Joe" wrote in message Yeah, that's the ticket... fire or at least blame the workers for _negotiating_ successfully. the ''workers'', and I use that term loosely, only do / vote what the mob / union bosses tell them to. SBV So what? At this point, who's going to be harmed, according to Joe's post... the boss' or the workers? -- "j" ganz -Hidequoted text - - Show quoted text - Hey Jon. In case you have not noticed the Americaqn auto industry is in deep trouble because of all the dead weight the unions strapped them with. The American auto industry spends more money on heathcare for RETIRED employees than they spend on steel. Just how is any company going to make a profit when they are forking out so much? The only way they can compete in a world market is to start over without the dead weight. Joe Agreed. However, 100s of 1000s are dependent on the agreements that were reached when the industry was healthy. You can't cut people off at the knees, so something needs to be worked out... gee, here's a solution... universal healthcare. Everyone is then covered and the auto industry can recover. Sorry... I know that's pretty liberal of me. g -- "j" ganz -Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Well the union people and bean counters had billions to invest and manage to cover the cost of heathcare ect and did a **** poor job of it. When you retire you have the option of taking all your stock and selling it and investing in other forms of retirement. Let's face it, the days of 20 years with a company and a gold watch retirement party and lifetime pensions are over. If you wan't anything for your retirement you better leverage your career now and plan for your own retirement. Here is the choice (reality) for for the American auto industry. 1. Start over without all the dead weight, so we can compete on a world market. 2. No USA auto makers. Joe I guess that begs the question... do we need GM if Toyota builds cars in the US? -- "j" ganz - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I'll never buy a toyata, or any other jap mobile. Having a strong industrial base is what made our country great, you may be happy building Japan, but Id rather support Americans. If I had my way, I'd impose a trade tariff that would level the field with the japs and preserve the retirements that our mfgr's bear the burden of. 40-50% import tax. And no country would be able to sell us more than we sell them. Joe And you'd end up with high priced junk that no one could afford but would have to buy because they would not have a choice. The U. S. Auto industry had all the opportunity in the world to improve. They could have embraced Demming when he was trying to move them in the right direction. They wouldn't give him the time of day, laughed him out of the country. He went to Japan and the rest is history. Statistical Process Control became the foundation for DOE, lean manufacturing and all the other innovative methods the Japanese use to make the highest quality, massed produced products in the world. They consider him a national treasure. An American. The playing field with the Japs is level. They build here and have to endure the same environmental, safety, workers comp foolishness, litigation environment, potential for labor organization, that the big three do. Difference is they have adopted methods to do it better, while the U. S. corporations continue to just pay their executives higher bonuses and stock options for crappy performance, and boards of directors go along because they are at the trough too. As I type, Toyota is building an assembly plant twelve miles, as the crow flies, from my house. Going to provide 4000 quality jobs. In an area of the country where all the U. S. Corporations are sending those "extravagant" $10/hour jobs to china (theres where you have a playing field that is in full tilt) so they can pay $1/hr to offer you crap at a price that makes a killing for them. Now, you drive what you want but who do you think I will support? Frank |
Death Wish?
"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message ... I'll never buy a toyata, or any other jap mobile. Having a strong industrial base is what made our country great, you may be happy building Japan, but Id rather support Americans. If I had my way, I'd impose a trade tariff that would level the field with the japs and preserve the retirements that our mfgr's bear the burden of. 40-50% import tax. And no country would be able to sell us more than we sell them. Joe And you'd end up with high priced junk that no one could afford but would have to buy because they would not have a choice. Exactly, like Harley D in the 70s-90s. SBV |
Death Wish?
On May 19, 8:02 am, Frank Boettcher wrote:
On 18 May 2007 20:10:10 -0700, Joe wrote: On May 18, 8:11 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote: "Joe" wrote in message roups.com... On May 18, 10:28 am, "Capt. JG" wrote: "Joe" wrote in message groups.com... On May 17, 3:03 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote: "Scotty" wrote in message m... "Capt. JG" wrote in message ... "Joe" wrote in message Yeah, that's the ticket... fire or at least blame the workers for _negotiating_ successfully. the ''workers'', and I use that term loosely, only do / vote what the mob / union bosses tell them to. SBV So what? At this point, who's going to be harmed, according to Joe's post... the boss' or the workers? -- "j" ganz -Hidequotedtext - - Show quoted text - Hey Jon. In case you have not noticed the Americaqn auto industry is in deep trouble because of all the dead weight the unions strapped them with. The American auto industry spends more money on heathcare for RETIRED employees than they spend on steel. Just how is any company going to make a profit when they are forking out so much? The only way they can compete in a world market is to start over without the dead weight. Joe Agreed. However, 100s of 1000s are dependent on the agreements that were reached when the industry was healthy. You can't cut people off at the knees, so something needs to be worked out... gee, here's a solution... universal healthcare. Everyone is then covered and the auto industry can recover. Sorry... I know that's pretty liberal of me. g -- "j" ganz -Hidequoted text - - Show quoted text - Well the union people and bean counters had billions to invest and manage to cover the cost of heathcare ect and did a **** poor job of it. When you retire you have the option of taking all your stock and selling it and investing in other forms of retirement. Let's face it, the days of 20 years with a company and a gold watch retirement party and lifetime pensions are over. If you wan't anything for your retirement you better leverage your career now and plan for your own retirement. Here is the choice (reality) for for the American auto industry. 1. Start over without all the dead weight, so we can compete on a world market. 2. No USA auto makers. Joe I guess that begs the question... do we need GM if Toyota builds cars in the US? -- "j" ganz -Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I'll never buy a toyata, or any other jap mobile. Having a strong industrial base is what made our country great, you may be happy building Japan, but Id rather support Americans. If I had my way, I'd impose a trade tariff that would level the field with the japs and preserve the retirements that our mfgr's bear the burden of. 40-50% import tax. And no country would be able to sell us more than we sell them. Joe And you'd end up with high priced junk that no one could afford but would have to buy because they would not have a choice. The U. S. Auto industry had all the opportunity in the world to improve. They could have embraced Demming when he was trying to move them in the right direction. They wouldn't give him the time of day, laughed him out of the country. He went to Japan and the rest is history. Statistical Process Control became the foundation for DOE, lean manufacturing and all the other innovative methods the Japanese use to make the highest quality, massed produced products in the world. They consider him a national treasure. An American. The playing field with the Japs is level. They build here and have to endure the same environmental, safety, workers comp foolishness, litigation environment, potential for labor organization, that the big three do. Difference is they have adopted methods to do it better, while the U. S. corporations continue to just pay their executives higher bonuses and stock options for crappy performance, and boards of directors go along because they are at the trough too. As I type, Toyota is building an assembly plant twelve miles, as the crow flies, from my house. Going to provide 4000 quality jobs. In an area of the country where all the U. S. Corporations are sending those "extravagant" $10/hour jobs to china (theres where you have a playing field that is in full tilt) so they can pay $1/hr to offer you crap at a price that makes a killing for them. Now, you drive what you want but who do you think I will support? Frank- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Frank American mfgs use Black belt, Kitzan, ISO, and have pretty much adopted the same quality control standards as the Japs. But you are correct Demming was the best. America missed out big time on taking advantage of what he was teaching. That's not the issue. The issue is the massive overhead from unions ect..that the US mfg. have to lug around. GM is 10,000.00 dollars in the hole before they even start building a car. And if stock owners and the boards feel they need to pay top money to attract top talent what's wrong with that? Again no one is going to leverage your career for you now days, so you need to leverage your own skills and manage your own retirement. Joe |
Death Wish?
On 19 May 2007 07:46:48 -0700, Joe wrote:
On May 19, 8:02 am, Frank Boettcher wrote: On 18 May 2007 20:10:10 -0700, Joe wrote: On May 18, 8:11 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote: "Joe" wrote in message roups.com... On May 18, 10:28 am, "Capt. JG" wrote: "Joe" wrote in message groups.com... On May 17, 3:03 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote: "Scotty" wrote in message m... "Capt. JG" wrote in message ... "Joe" wrote in message Yeah, that's the ticket... fire or at least blame the workers for _negotiating_ successfully. the ''workers'', and I use that term loosely, only do / vote what the mob / union bosses tell them to. SBV So what? At this point, who's going to be harmed, according to Joe's post... the boss' or the workers? -- "j" ganz -Hidequotedtext - - Show quoted text - Hey Jon. In case you have not noticed the Americaqn auto industry is in deep trouble because of all the dead weight the unions strapped them with. The American auto industry spends more money on heathcare for RETIRED employees than they spend on steel. Just how is any company going to make a profit when they are forking out so much? The only way they can compete in a world market is to start over without the dead weight. Joe Agreed. However, 100s of 1000s are dependent on the agreements that were reached when the industry was healthy. You can't cut people off at the knees, so something needs to be worked out... gee, here's a solution... universal healthcare. Everyone is then covered and the auto industry can recover. Sorry... I know that's pretty liberal of me. g -- "j" ganz -Hidequoted text - - Show quoted text - Well the union people and bean counters had billions to invest and manage to cover the cost of heathcare ect and did a **** poor job of it. When you retire you have the option of taking all your stock and selling it and investing in other forms of retirement. Let's face it, the days of 20 years with a company and a gold watch retirement party and lifetime pensions are over. If you wan't anything for your retirement you better leverage your career now and plan for your own retirement. Here is the choice (reality) for for the American auto industry. 1. Start over without all the dead weight, so we can compete on a world market. 2. No USA auto makers. Joe I guess that begs the question... do we need GM if Toyota builds cars in the US? -- "j" ganz -Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I'll never buy a toyata, or any other jap mobile. Having a strong industrial base is what made our country great, you may be happy building Japan, but Id rather support Americans. If I had my way, I'd impose a trade tariff that would level the field with the japs and preserve the retirements that our mfgr's bear the burden of. 40-50% import tax. And no country would be able to sell us more than we sell them. Joe And you'd end up with high priced junk that no one could afford but would have to buy because they would not have a choice. The U. S. Auto industry had all the opportunity in the world to improve. They could have embraced Demming when he was trying to move them in the right direction. They wouldn't give him the time of day, laughed him out of the country. He went to Japan and the rest is history. Statistical Process Control became the foundation for DOE, lean manufacturing and all the other innovative methods the Japanese use to make the highest quality, massed produced products in the world. They consider him a national treasure. An American. The playing field with the Japs is level. They build here and have to endure the same environmental, safety, workers comp foolishness, litigation environment, potential for labor organization, that the big three do. Difference is they have adopted methods to do it better, while the U. S. corporations continue to just pay their executives higher bonuses and stock options for crappy performance, and boards of directors go along because they are at the trough too. As I type, Toyota is building an assembly plant twelve miles, as the crow flies, from my house. Going to provide 4000 quality jobs. In an area of the country where all the U. S. Corporations are sending those "extravagant" $10/hour jobs to china (theres where you have a playing field that is in full tilt) so they can pay $1/hr to offer you crap at a price that makes a killing for them. Now, you drive what you want but who do you think I will support? Frank- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Frank American mfgs use Black belt, Kitzan, ISO, and have pretty much adopted the same quality control standards as the Japs. But you are correct Demming was the best. America missed out big time on taking advantage of what he was teaching. Joe, almost no one at the executive level understands Lean, Kaizan, six sigma, SPC, DOE, GD&T. To them they are just buzz words. If you don't understand and support at the top, it ain't going to work right. Most U. S. Plants are still running with blue print tolerances and feature inspection being the key driver for quality. ISO is a joke, brings nothing to the party. You can become ISO certified and make a terrible quality product. That's not the issue. The issue is the massive overhead from unions ect..that the US mfg. have to lug around. GM is 10,000.00 dollars in the hole before they even start building a car. I believe, no I know for sure since I've done it five times over a fifteen year period, that two parties come to the negotiating table to get a contract. So why did they agree to that? Complacency? don't rock the boat for the next twelve quarters and we'll make ours and get out? That would be my guess. So you blame the Union for that? And if stock owners and the boards feel they need to pay top money to attract top talent what's wrong with that? Again no one is going to leverage your career for you now days, so you need to leverage your own skills and manage your own retirement. No problem with paying for good performance, but, many are paid for the type of performance that would get the factory floor guy fired. Individual stockholders don't really have a say unless the institutional buyers get fed up. And the boards of directors, who have the power to act, is primarily a good ole boy club full of conflicts of interest. Ex CEO at the Corp. I worked for literally destroyed five subsidiary companys, dropped the stock value by 50% and the board approved a Million dollars a year for life enhanced retirement for him. And that's very small potatoes compared to what many get for dismal performance. Frank Joe |
Death Wish?
"Joe" wrote in message ps.com... On May 19, 8:02 am, Frank Boettcher wrote: On 18 May 2007 20:10:10 -0700, Joe wrote: On May 18, 8:11 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote: "Joe" wrote in message roups.com... On May 18, 10:28 am, "Capt. JG" wrote: "Joe" wrote in message groups.com... On May 17, 3:03 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote: "Scotty" wrote in message m... "Capt. JG" wrote in message ... "Joe" wrote in message Yeah, that's the ticket... fire or at least blame the workers for _negotiating_ successfully. the ''workers'', and I use that term loosely, only do / vote what the mob / union bosses tell them to. SBV So what? At this point, who's going to be harmed, according to Joe's post... the boss' or the workers? -- "j" ganz -Hidequotedtext - - Show quoted text - Hey Jon. In case you have not noticed the Americaqn auto industry is in deep trouble because of all the dead weight the unions strapped them with. The American auto industry spends more money on heathcare for RETIRED employees than they spend on steel. Just how is any company going to make a profit when they are forking out so much? The only way they can compete in a world market is to start over without the dead weight. Joe Agreed. However, 100s of 1000s are dependent on the agreements that were reached when the industry was healthy. You can't cut people off at the knees, so something needs to be worked out... gee, here's a solution... universal healthcare. Everyone is then covered and the auto industry can recover. Sorry... I know that's pretty liberal of me. g -- "j" ganz -Hidequoted text - - Show quoted text - Well the union people and bean counters had billions to invest and manage to cover the cost of heathcare ect and did a **** poor job of it. When you retire you have the option of taking all your stock and selling it and investing in other forms of retirement. Let's face it, the days of 20 years with a company and a gold watch retirement party and lifetime pensions are over. If you wan't anything for your retirement you better leverage your career now and plan for your own retirement. Here is the choice (reality) for for the American auto industry. 1. Start over without all the dead weight, so we can compete on a world market. 2. No USA auto makers. Joe I guess that begs the question... do we need GM if Toyota builds cars in the US? -- "j" ganz -Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I'll never buy a toyata, or any other jap mobile. Having a strong industrial base is what made our country great, you may be happy building Japan, but Id rather support Americans. If I had my way, I'd impose a trade tariff that would level the field with the japs and preserve the retirements that our mfgr's bear the burden of. 40-50% import tax. And no country would be able to sell us more than we sell them. Joe And you'd end up with high priced junk that no one could afford but would have to buy because they would not have a choice. The U. S. Auto industry had all the opportunity in the world to improve. They could have embraced Demming when he was trying to move them in the right direction. They wouldn't give him the time of day, laughed him out of the country. He went to Japan and the rest is history. Statistical Process Control became the foundation for DOE, lean manufacturing and all the other innovative methods the Japanese use to make the highest quality, massed produced products in the world. They consider him a national treasure. An American. The playing field with the Japs is level. They build here and have to endure the same environmental, safety, workers comp foolishness, litigation environment, potential for labor organization, that the big three do. Difference is they have adopted methods to do it better, while the U. S. corporations continue to just pay their executives higher bonuses and stock options for crappy performance, and boards of directors go along because they are at the trough too. As I type, Toyota is building an assembly plant twelve miles, as the crow flies, from my house. Going to provide 4000 quality jobs. In an area of the country where all the U. S. Corporations are sending those "extravagant" $10/hour jobs to china (theres where you have a playing field that is in full tilt) so they can pay $1/hr to offer you crap at a price that makes a killing for them. Now, you drive what you want but who do you think I will support? Frank- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Frank American mfgs use Black belt, Kitzan, ISO, and have pretty much adopted the same quality control standards as the Japs. But you are correct Demming was the best. America missed out big time on taking advantage of what he was teaching. That's not the issue. The issue is the massive overhead from unions ect..that the US mfg. have to lug around. GM is 10,000.00 dollars in the hole before they even start building a car. And if stock owners and the boards feel they need to pay top money to attract top talent what's wrong with that? Again no one is going to leverage your career for you now days, so you need to leverage your own skills and manage your own retirement. Joe You are 100% correct. Because of liberals and their love of the socialist agenda, their beloved socialist unions have destroyed the very fabric of capitalism in the U.S. auto industry. Socialism is a Ponzi scheme whereby sooner or later one must pay the piper. It just so happens now IS later as far as the U.S. auto industry goes. You just can't compete being forced to carry all that dead weight in the form of retired workers. It ain't gonna happen. But, the handwriting is on the wall. Even the French are finally getting a clue how bad socialism is and how it's wrecked the economy in their country. Wilbur Hubbard |
Death Wish?
"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com... On May 18, 8:11 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote: "Joe" wrote in message ups.com... On May 18, 10:28 am, "Capt. JG" wrote: "Joe" wrote in message groups.com... On May 17, 3:03 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote: "Scotty" wrote in message m... "Capt. JG" wrote in message ... "Joe" wrote in message Yeah, that's the ticket... fire or at least blame the workers for _negotiating_ successfully. the ''workers'', and I use that term loosely, only do / vote what the mob / union bosses tell them to. SBV So what? At this point, who's going to be harmed, according to Joe's post... the boss' or the workers? -- "j" ganz -Hidequoted text - - Show quoted text - Hey Jon. In case you have not noticed the Americaqn auto industry is in deep trouble because of all the dead weight the unions strapped them with. The American auto industry spends more money on heathcare for RETIRED employees than they spend on steel. Just how is any company going to make a profit when they are forking out so much? The only way they can compete in a world market is to start over without the dead weight. Joe Agreed. However, 100s of 1000s are dependent on the agreements that were reached when the industry was healthy. You can't cut people off at the knees, so something needs to be worked out... gee, here's a solution... universal healthcare. Everyone is then covered and the auto industry can recover. Sorry... I know that's pretty liberal of me. g -- "j" ganz -Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Well the union people and bean counters had billions to invest and manage to cover the cost of heathcare ect and did a **** poor job of it. When you retire you have the option of taking all your stock and selling it and investing in other forms of retirement. Let's face it, the days of 20 years with a company and a gold watch retirement party and lifetime pensions are over. If you wan't anything for your retirement you better leverage your career now and plan for your own retirement. Here is the choice (reality) for for the American auto industry. 1. Start over without all the dead weight, so we can compete on a world market. 2. No USA auto makers. Joe I guess that begs the question... do we need GM if Toyota builds cars in the US? -- "j" ganz - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I'll never buy a toyata, or any other jap mobile. Having a strong industrial base is what made our country great, you may be happy building Japan, but Id rather support Americans. If I had my way, I'd impose a trade tariff that would level the field with the japs and preserve the retirements that our mfgr's bear the burden of. 40-50% import tax. And no country would be able to sell us more than we sell them. Not even if they're built in the US, using US labor and parts made in the US? Hmmm... And, hate to tell you, but tariff don't work, except possibly in the short term. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
Death Wish?
"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message ... On Thu, 17 May 2007 00:13:19 GMT, "Maxprop" wrote: "Scotty" wrote in message ... unions are a major contributor to the down fall of this country. They certainly contributed significantly to the outsourcing of manufactured goods to foreign countries. Max Since I may be the only one here who has actually run a large union organization, negotiated contracts, and sadly, negotiated both the decision and the effects of a closing contract, I would have to challenge that statement. The Union in my organization had absolutely nothing to do with the outsourcing of manufactured goods to foreign countries, unless you call earning an average of 13.50/hour for highly productive work, with basic benefits like health care provided on a cost sharing basis a contributing driver. UAW members love to quote their "meager" wages of only $22 per hour, plus or minus. Of course they never volunteer the others aspects of their contract package that net them somewhere in the $40 to $50 per hour range, like health care, retirement package, disability income insurance, etc. When a foreign concern employs workers in the $5 to $8 per hour range, it makes it really tough for a manufacturer to stick it out with the union workers. Corporate greed was a driver. The Union and most Unions have no protection what so ever from outsourcing and they are like a "deer in the headlights" where it is concerned. And that outsourcing takes place wether there is a union or not. It's always "greed," isn't it. Profit is a nasty word, eh? Fact is that no one, not even you, will work for nothing. Profitability is what business is all about, and one's shareholders generally want to see earnings on their investments. If one's labor costs are limiting his profitability, he looks for cheaper labor, and generally finds it offshore where unions don't exist. Health care costs was a driver. In my many years of struggle against cost increase, I could always offset cost of living labor increases with productivity, impact material costs postively, lower total unit overhead by consolidation and growth. The only costs I could never control were health care costs. Double digit percentage increases every year. No matter what kind of effort I put into changing TPA's, (we were self insured) negotiating new provider networks and prescription drug contracts, etc. When I embarked on a way to "target" potential health risk employees (meaning potential high dollar heart or cancer cases), not to eliminate them, but to incentify them into a wellness program, the government stepped in and passed the latest version of HIPPA, effectivly killing the program. I won't dispute any of that. It's a problem faced by business and government. And there are no easy answers. Bear in mind, however, that third-party carriers (health insurance companies) are, and have been, recording record profits during the past decade or so. Managed care is really "managed profits." It's a shame that the bulk of the recent increases in health insurance costs can be directly attributed to an industry that in actuality has no relevance in the diagnosis and management of disease, or wellness. Certainly there are bad unions and possibly many of the UAW locals qualify. My experience with the USWA could not be classified as such. And most locals around the country are more typical of what I experienced. No one is foolish enough to believe that all unions are guilty of the greed that exemplifies the UAW. But that union is a major player and constitutes much of what is costing jobs in this country. It's a no-brainer to want to reduce one's labor costs, especially if it can be in the 40% to 50% range, or more. Max |
Death Wish?
"Capt. JG" wrote in message ... "Joe" wrote in message oups.com... On May 17, 3:03 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote: "Scotty" wrote in message . .. "Capt. JG" wrote in message ... "Joe" wrote in message Yeah, that's the ticket... fire or at least blame the workers for _negotiating_ successfully. the ''workers'', and I use that term loosely, only do / vote what the mob / union bosses tell them to. SBV So what? At this point, who's going to be harmed, according to Joe's post... the boss' or the workers? -- "j" ganz - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Hey Jon. In case you have not noticed the Americaqn auto industry is in deep trouble because of all the dead weight the unions strapped them with. The American auto industry spends more money on heathcare for RETIRED employees than they spend on steel. Just how is any company going to make a profit when they are forking out so much? The only way they can compete in a world market is to start over without the dead weight. Joe Agreed. However, 100s of 1000s are dependent on the agreements that were reached when the industry was healthy. You can't cut people off at the knees, so something needs to be worked out... gee, here's a solution... universal healthcare. Everyone is then covered and the auto industry can recover. Sorry... I know that's pretty liberal of me. g Of the 10 or so UAW members that I know personally, about half intend to retire at age 50 or younger. The others won't work beyond 55. That leaves an average of 23 years during which those retired employees will be draining the auto companies' profits with zero productivity. So you propose so-called "universal health care." Since Hugo Chavez isn't our leader, and we don't have his oil money to finance this socialist health care agenda, someone will have to pay for it. Of course business will be footing the bill (and probably the middle class, as usual). Hillary's plan in the early 90s assumed that most business would be paying more in taxes to cover "universal health care" than they were paying for covering their employees under their current plans. Wow, that makes a lot of sense. Max |
Death Wish?
"Maxprop" wrote in message
hlink.net... "Capt. JG" wrote in message ... "Joe" wrote in message oups.com... On May 17, 3:03 pm, "Capt. JG" wrote: "Scotty" wrote in message . .. "Capt. JG" wrote in message ... "Joe" wrote in message Yeah, that's the ticket... fire or at least blame the workers for _negotiating_ successfully. the ''workers'', and I use that term loosely, only do / vote what the mob / union bosses tell them to. SBV So what? At this point, who's going to be harmed, according to Joe's post... the boss' or the workers? -- "j" ganz - Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Hey Jon. In case you have not noticed the Americaqn auto industry is in deep trouble because of all the dead weight the unions strapped them with. The American auto industry spends more money on heathcare for RETIRED employees than they spend on steel. Just how is any company going to make a profit when they are forking out so much? The only way they can compete in a world market is to start over without the dead weight. Joe Agreed. However, 100s of 1000s are dependent on the agreements that were reached when the industry was healthy. You can't cut people off at the knees, so something needs to be worked out... gee, here's a solution... universal healthcare. Everyone is then covered and the auto industry can recover. Sorry... I know that's pretty liberal of me. g Of the 10 or so UAW members that I know personally, about half intend to retire at age 50 or younger. The others won't work beyond 55. That leaves an average of 23 years during which those retired employees will be draining the auto companies' profits with zero productivity. So you propose so-called "universal health care." Since Hugo Chavez isn't our leader, and we don't have his oil money to finance this socialist health care agenda, someone will have to pay for it. Of course business will be footing the bill (and probably the middle class, as usual). Hillary's plan in the early 90s assumed that most business would be paying more in taxes to cover "universal health care" than they were paying for covering their employees under their current plans. Wow, that makes a lot of sense. Max We have plenty of money and creativity to find a way to insure the 47 million people. If we can't do that, we don't deserve our status at the top of the heap. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
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