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#11
posted to alt.sailing.asa
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Missing Sailors
"Edgar" wrote in message ... "Capt. JG" wrote in message ... For the main, I agree... if it's in the mast, well, that's just asking for trouble... no way to drop it without cutting the sail. For a headsail, it's easy to drop the jib with a furler... pop the halyard, you're done. Typically, however, you're right that if bad weather is forecast, bringing down the furler and using a hanked on storm sail is safer. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com OK then, what are you going to hank it onto? If you bring down the roller foresail you are left with a thick aluminium roller which you cannot hank onto. Moreover, you have to totally unroll the foresail before you can bring it down so you had best do it before the wind gets up too much. My boat has two grooves in the roller so you can hoist a smaller sail before you take the other one down but this is a racing tactic and implies that you have ample skilled crew, not only on the foredeck, but also back in the cockpit to work the halliards, while someone else steers.. I sail with just my wife as crew and such activities are not an option. I have a very robust furling gear and cannot envisage any situation where I would not be able to roll the foresail right tightly up. Not only can I put the furling line on a winch but I have it set up so that after the sail is totally rolled it puts another two turns of the sheets around it. No way it is going to unroll after that. If you think that going onto the foredeck in a storm and unhanking one sail, getting it down the forehatch, and replacing it with another which you fetch up through the open hatch is a good option I can confidently assert that you have never been out in a storm with only one other crewmember. Then you're no sailor! People who use real sails and know how to sail and change headsails can tell just by looking and listening when a storm is coming up. We prepare in advance by hanking on a storm jib below the lower hank on the working jib and storing it lashed down in it's little Sunbrella bag. All one needs to do to change sails is to lower the working jib, unsnap the tack, snap on the storm jib tack, snap the halyard off the jib and onto the head of the storm sail, untie and transfer the sheets, stuff the jib into the bag and unclip the working jib hanks. Then snap on the storm jib hanks and haul away on the halyard and you're done. It takes about two or three minutes max. The secret to safety and no hassles is to reef sooner rather than later. Wilbur Hubbard |
#12
posted to alt.sailing.asa
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Missing Sailors
"Edgar" wrote in message
... "Capt. JG" wrote in message ... For the main, I agree... if it's in the mast, well, that's just asking for trouble... no way to drop it without cutting the sail. For a headsail, it's easy to drop the jib with a furler... pop the halyard, you're done. Typically, however, you're right that if bad weather is forecast, bringing down the furler and using a hanked on storm sail is safer. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com OK then, what are you going to hank it onto? If you bring down the roller foresail you are left with a thick aluminium roller which you cannot hank onto. You don't have to use a hank on actually. They do make storm sails that fit around a furled jib. But, underneath the aluminum roller is the headstay. It's not that hard to remove if you have enough time. And, you don't need a jib to sail. You can sail under greatly reduced main (e.g., 3rd reef or storm main). Moreover, you have to totally unroll the foresail before you can bring it down so you had best do it before the wind gets up too much. My boat has two grooves in the roller so you can hoist a smaller sail before you take the other one down but this is a racing tactic and implies that you have ample skilled crew, not only on the foredeck, but also back in the cockpit to work the halliards, while someone else steers.. Well, yes... if you don't have crew that can handle the conditions, then all the hardware you can carry won't do squat. I sail with just my wife as crew and such activities are not an option. I have a very robust furling gear and cannot envisage any situation where I would not be able to roll the foresail right tightly up. Not only can I put the furling line on a winch but I have it set up so that after the sail is totally rolled it puts another two turns of the sheets around it. No way it is going to unroll after that. I've never had to put the furling line on a winch... even on a 60 ft boat... Chances are good that you may roll it too tightly, and thus it won't go all the way. If you think that going onto the foredeck in a storm and unhanking one sail, getting it down the forehatch, and replacing it with another which you fetch up through the open hatch is a good option I can confidently assert that you have never been out in a storm with only one other crewmember. Never said I did nor would I do such a thing. That's called bad planning. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
#13
posted to alt.sailing.asa
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Missing Sailors
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message ... People who use real sails and know how to sail and change headsails can tell just by looking and listening when a storm is coming up. We prepare in advance by hanking on a storm jib below the lower hank on the working jib and storing it lashed down in it's little Sunbrella bag. You have forgotten that your 'working jib' has to have its tack fastened to the stemhead fitting so you cannot do what you suggest unless your 'working jib' has a wire at the tack long enough to allow it to set above your 'storm jib' hanks which means that the foot of the sail will be well clear of the deck. So your 'working jib' must of necessity be a small and inefficient sail because in modern yachts only the actual storm jib has such a wire to lift it clear of the deck to avoid lumps of water hitting the sail. needs to do to change sails is to lower the working jib, unsnap the tack, snap on the storm jib tack, snap the halyard off the jib and onto the head of the storm sail, untie and transfer the sheets, stuff the jib into the bag and unclip the working jib hanks. Now I know you have never done it in a storm. Stuff the sail in a bag on deck in strong wind?!!! You would breath a sigh of relief if you succeeded in stuffing it down the fore hatch without losing it oveboard Then snap on the storm jib hanks You said the sail was already hanked on... The secret to safety and no hassles is to reef sooner rather than later. Well, you are right there at least. |
#14
posted to alt.sailing.asa
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Missing Sailors
"Capt. JG" wrote in message ... You don't have to use a hank on actually. They do make storm sails that fit around a furled jib. But, underneath the aluminum roller is the headstay. It's not that hard to remove if you have enough time. I don't know what you mean. My roller is a solid tube with the wire inside it and it is upwards of 45 feet long so removing it is not an option. If you can somehow remove your roller where are you going to stow it? And, you don't need a jib to sail. You can sail under greatly reduced main (e.g., 3rd reef or storm main). yes, of course. That is why a roller beats hanked on sails. You do not have to go forward and mess with flogging sailcloth in bad conditions. This is where 'Wilbur' has not thought it through. By the time you have removed the sheets to another sail and then unhanked it the sail is completely free to wash overboard if conditions are bad. He thinks he can bag it up on the deck! snip I've never had to put the furling line on a winch... even on a 60 ft boat... Chances are good that you may roll it too tightly, and thus it won't go all the way. One does not normally have to use the winch but in any case the winch has nothing to do with how tight it rolls. This depends on the tension you keep on the sheets while rolling. You need some tension to get a neat roll but you certainly do not need to hold the sheets so tight that you need a winch to fight the strain. But a self-tailing winch makes the job much easier if you are one person doing both jobs. If you think that going onto the foredeck in a storm and unhanking one sail, getting it down the forehatch, and replacing it with another which you fetch up through the open hatch is a good option I can confidently assert that you have never been out in a storm with only one other crewmember. Never said I did nor would I do such a thing. That's called bad planning. Don't know anything about conditions on the US West coast but around Uk you cannot bank on planning not to be caught out sometimes as the weather can change in a matter of an hour or two and the forecasts cover a general area within which local conditions can vary quite a bit. |
#15
posted to alt.sailing.asa
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Missing Sailors
"Edgar" wrote in message
... "Capt. JG" wrote in message ... You don't have to use a hank on actually. They do make storm sails that fit around a furled jib. But, underneath the aluminum roller is the headstay. It's not that hard to remove if you have enough time. I don't know what you mean. My roller is a solid tube with the wire inside it and it is upwards of 45 feet long so removing it is not an option. If you can somehow remove your roller where are you going to stow it? You're right. I was thinking about something else. And, you don't need a jib to sail. You can sail under greatly reduced main (e.g., 3rd reef or storm main). yes, of course. That is why a roller beats hanked on sails. You do not have to go forward and mess with flogging sailcloth in bad conditions. This is where 'Wilbur' has not thought it through. By the time you have removed the sheets to another sail and then unhanked it the sail is completely free to wash overboard if conditions are bad. He thinks he can bag it up on the deck! Well, what can you say... Neal doesn't sail much or at all. snip I've never had to put the furling line on a winch... even on a 60 ft boat... Chances are good that you may roll it too tightly, and thus it won't go all the way. One does not normally have to use the winch but in any case the winch has nothing to do with how tight it rolls. This depends on the tension you keep on the sheets while rolling. You need some tension to get a neat roll but you certainly do not need to hold the sheets so tight that you need a winch to fight the strain. But a self-tailing winch makes the job much easier if you are one person doing both jobs. Well, that true, but if you have to use a winch, the sail is under a lot of tension, which means it may roll up so tight as to go all the way in. I barely have any tension on the sheet. If there's lots of tension on the sail, I try to blanket the jib as much as possible with the main. If you think that going onto the foredeck in a storm and unhanking one sail, getting it down the forehatch, and replacing it with another which you fetch up through the open hatch is a good option I can confidently assert that you have never been out in a storm with only one other crewmember. Never said I did nor would I do such a thing. That's called bad planning. Don't know anything about conditions on the US West coast but around Uk you cannot bank on planning not to be caught out sometimes as the weather can change in a matter of an hour or two and the forecasts cover a general area within which local conditions can vary quite a bit. Here, if you want a change in weather, wait 5 minutes. -- "j" ganz @@ www.sailnow.com |
#16
posted to alt.sailing.asa
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Missing Sailors
On May 14, 11:15 am, Joe wrote:
On May 14, 9:50 am, katy wrote: Bart wrote: http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/0507/422839.html According to the family, the skipper of the boat was a careful and experienced sailor...that storm was wicked..must have been horrible out by Lookout...we were out at the Bay on the previous day and the wind was enough to blow you over and the surf was huge and pounding... The boat had a roller furling main, and jib. I bet they were un- managable. You have a point Joe. There was another rescue in the same storm that indicated a sail on this other boat could not lowered. I suspect that it was in-mast furling. In mast furling can be a problem in moderate conditions. I had one stuck on me and it was a PITA to clear it. In boom or slab reefing (my preference) is the way to go. For a genoa or jib, roller furling is a real plus. But one must also consider the time to remove such sails is before the winds get too extreme. That can be a hard call to make. |
#17
posted to alt.sailing.asa
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Missing Sailors
Let's hope they are still in a raft and get picked up soon. Now I agree with you there.... hoping for the best. DSK Two licensed Captains aboard and two young women. It would be a sad loss. I hope they get picked up soon. One of the guys was local to my area. |
#18
posted to alt.sailing.asa
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Missing Sailors
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message ... . All one needs to do to change sails is to lower the working jib, unsnap the tack, snap on the storm jib tack, snap the halyard off the jib and onto the head of the storm sail, untie and transfer the sheets, stuff the jib into the bag and unclip the working jib hanks. Then snap on the storm jib hanks and haul away on the halyard and you're done. That sounds like an awful lot of work. All I have to do is pull on the roller line, from the safety of my cockpit. Scotty |
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