Joe wrote:


Oz would be happy to hand it over to murderers...no problem.

Sort of like jumping from the pot into the fire? Mass destruction from
the air or from the ground?

Cheers
Marty

Nuke them.

It worked pretty well on Japan.

we had
Saddam contained and he posed no threat to his neighbors or us.

So the thret he posed to te average citizen of Iraq is meaningless.
The people he had tortured and murded don't count. Okay I see what
you are thinking. I know he is dead but there are plenty of his
followers still out there trying to do the same thing.

If the
criteria was a bad guy in charge, excepting Bush, we'd be fighting in lots
of places. We aren't. It was a war of choice and now it's a civil war we
helped start.

So because we convince liberals like you to do the right thing in all
of the countries where horrible murdering psychos are in power then we
shouldn't do it in Iraq? Because there is bad everywhere that we
can't get to but maybe this once we can help some people we should say
F it? Your logic here doesn't make sense. And they need a civil
war. We had one largely due to the desire to end slavery. I would
argue that torturing people because they are a differnt religion than
the leaders is is just as good a reason to have a civil war as
slavery.

Saddam is dead. You're living in the wrong century.

Yeah but there are still a lot of people that want to pick up where he
left off. A lot of people that think that the way you get what you
want is to drive a car bomb into a city and blow up a bunch of
children. But we shold let that go, that's America's fault not the
guy who made the bomb or the guy who blew it up or the leadership that
convinces them to do it. Nope it's America's fault, even though this
has been going on there for decades.

"Bill" wrote in message
ps.com...
we had
Saddam contained and he posed no threat to his neighbors or us.

So the thret he posed to te average citizen of Iraq is meaningless.
The people he had tortured and murded don't count. Okay I see what
you are thinking. I know he is dead but there are plenty of his
followers still out there trying to do the same thing.

Actually, there aren't. Most of the violence is due to racial strife not
people wanting Saddam back or do you think they're planning on having him be
resurrected?

If the
criteria was a bad guy in charge, excepting Bush, we'd be fighting in
lots
of places. We aren't. It was a war of choice and now it's a civil war we
helped start.

So because we convince liberals like you to do the right thing in all
of the countries where horrible murdering psychos are in power then we
shouldn't do it in Iraq? Because there is bad everywhere that we

Excuse me, but I don't need convincing and neither should you. We need to
strive to always do the "right thing in all of the countries" with which we
possibly have any influence. We toppled Saddam, for the wrong reasons, but
it's done. Why are we still there? We're the ones who are making the
situation worse, and a majority of Iraqis don't want us there. Why are we
there?

The Bush administration has called what is happening in Africa GENOCIDE, yet
we're hardly doing anything about it. Why? A couple of reasons... no oil,
dark skin color, we're bogged down in a war of choice that's draining our
resources and our military.

can't get to but maybe this once we can help some people we should say
F it? Your logic here doesn't make sense. And they need a civil
war. We had one largely due to the desire to end slavery. I would
argue that torturing people because they are a differnt religion than
the leaders is is just as good a reason to have a civil war as
slavery.

They need a civil war? Well, they've got one, thanks to us. 100s of 1000s
are dead and maimed because of us. I'm sure they appreciate it.

Saddam is dead. You're living in the wrong century.

Yeah but there are still a lot of people that want to pick up where he
left off. A lot of people that think that the way you get what you
want is to drive a car bomb into a city and blow up a bunch of
children. But we shold let that go, that's America's fault not the
guy who made the bomb or the guy who blew it up or the leadership that
convinces them to do it. Nope it's America's fault, even though this
has been going on there for decades.

We didn't need to topple Saddam the way we did. If Bush, who had very high
poll numbers at the time, had come to the American people, and said, listen,
Saddam is murdering his people, I think we should do something, Bush would
have likely gotten approval to do something from a Republican controlled
Congress, perhaps even to go to war. Unfortunately, for both us and the
Iraqis, we were mislead or worse lied to, there was no sound military plan
in a large measure because of Rumsfeld, and now 100s die each day.

And, let's not forget the "other" war in Afganistan. No one thinks there was
lack of reasons to fight there. Initially, we did a great job, but now, due
to lack of military resources, that situation is starting to fall apart... a
place where Bin Laden and his buddies are *still* entrenched. All of this
because of a war of choice.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Actually, there aren't. Most of the violence is due to racial strife not
people wanting Saddam back or do you think they're planning on having him be
resurrected?

Actually there are. They don't want him ressurected they want to
continue running the country the way Saddam did.

Excuse me, but I don't need convincing and neither should you. We need to
strive to always do the "right thing in all of the countries" with which we
possibly have any influence. We toppled Saddam, for the wrong reasons, but
it's done. Why are we still there? We're the ones who are making the
situation worse, and a majority of Iraqis don't want us there. Why are we
there?

Apparently you do need convincing. Where do you get this majority of
Iraqis stuff? Polls in Iraq show that hey want us there, soldiers
returning form Iraq tell of the Iraqi people being very grateful for
them being there. Where are getting this? Don't say you saw some
reporter on the news say it or heard it in a newsgroup please.

The Bush administration has called what is happening in Africa GENOCIDE, yet
we're hardly doing anything about it. Why? A couple of reasons... no oil,
dark skin color, we're bogged down in a war of choice that's draining our
resources and our military.

Yes because the people need an emotion response to get into gear and
get behind doing the right thing. That is historically the US MO.
WWII we did the same thing. I agree that we should be in Africa
helping those people but Americans will never get behind it because
they don't give a crap about people in other countries suffering until
it directly affects them. They say they do but when it comes time to
put up they get all whiny about how war is not the answer when
sometimes, sad to say, it is. The people here need t have some kind
of an excuse to go into it and when they forget the excusse they can't
see there real reson or the good we are doing so they cut the balls
off our resolution and make things worse.

They need a civil war? Well, they've got one, thanks to us. 100s of 1000s
are dead and maimed because of us. I'm sure they appreciate it.

Many people were dying there before we ever came along. So many are
dying because of the way their society is set up. The average person
that just wants to live and not be oppressed is the ones I'm concerned
for not the car bombing Jihad assholes. You are the kind of person
that thinks it is okay to let a gang run a town and keep people in
fear because standing up to the killers will cause them to kill more
people until they are stopped. You thinkit is better to live in that
fear and put up with oppression rather than risk your life to get your
freedom from it. I'm not that kind of person.

We didn't need to topple Saddam the way we did. If Bush, who had very high
poll numbers at the time, had come to the American people, and said, listen,
Saddam is murdering his people, I think we should do something, Bush would
have likely gotten approval to do something from a Republican controlled
Congress, perhaps even to go to war.

No we would not have. This is evidenced by your earlier statement
that Bush has said there is Genocide in Africa but nobody is calling
for us to go to war there nobody is outraged and screaming on the news
for us to be in Africa. We say oh that's too bad and watch more
American Idol. The only reason we are doing the right thing in Iraq
is because the people were lied to. You can't have it both ways. You
can't say the onyl reason we went to war in Iraq is because we were
lied to even though we may be helping people and then turn around and
say we aren't in Africa because even though we know the truth and what
is going on there.

And, let's not forget the "other" war in Afganistan. No one thinks there was
lack of reasons to fight there. Initially, we did a great job, but now, due
to lack of military resources, that situation is starting to fall apart... a
place where Bin Laden and his buddies are *still* entrenched. All of this
because of a war of choice.

The war in Afganistan is not with Afganistan but with Bin Laden and
his followers who have been effectively stopped. We haven't left yet
because if we do they may come back until we find Bin Laden and all of
his followers. Last time I checked there hasn't been any terrorist
bombings from his group int eh U.S. since we started this war with him
so it seems to be working.

"Bill" wrote in message
oups.com...
Actually, there aren't. Most of the violence is due to racial strife not
people wanting Saddam back or do you think they're planning on having him
be
resurrected?

Actually there are. They don't want him ressurected they want to
continue running the country the way Saddam did.

Please supply the numbers, since you're in the know.

Apparently you do need convincing. Where do you get this majority of
Iraqis stuff? Polls in Iraq show that hey want us there, soldiers
returning form Iraq tell of the Iraqi people being very grateful for
them being there. Where are getting this? Don't say you saw some
reporter on the news say it or heard it in a newsgroup please.

OIC... I guess ABC, NBC, CBS, and gulp FOX news are all liberal media. Not
to mention, God Forbid, NPR.

The Bush administration has called what is happening in Africa GENOCIDE,
yet
we're hardly doing anything about it. Why? A couple of reasons... no oil,
dark skin color, we're bogged down in a war of choice that's draining our
resources and our military.

Yes because the people need an emotion response to get into gear and
get behind doing the right thing. That is historically the US MO.
WWII we did the same thing. I agree that we should be in Africa
helping those people but Americans will never get behind it because
they don't give a crap about people in other countries suffering until
it directly affects them. They say they do but when it comes time to
put up they get all whiny about how war is not the answer when
sometimes, sad to say, it is. The people here need t have some kind
of an excuse to go into it and when they forget the excusse they can't
see there real reson or the good we are doing so they cut the balls
off our resolution and make things worse.

I'm sorry, but I have a more optomistic view of Americans. I'm sorry you
don't.

They need a civil war? Well, they've got one, thanks to us. 100s of 1000s
are dead and maimed because of us. I'm sure they appreciate it.

Many people were dying there before we ever came along. So many are
dying because of the way their society is set up. The average person
that just wants to live and not be oppressed is the ones I'm concerned
for not the car bombing Jihad assholes. You are the kind of person
that thinks it is okay to let a gang run a town and keep people in
fear because standing up to the killers will cause them to kill more
people until they are stopped. You thinkit is better to live in that
fear and put up with oppression rather than risk your life to get your
freedom from it. I'm not that kind of person.

But not via car bombs in crowded markets. Feel free to hurl your insults,
but it doesn't strengthen your argument.

We didn't need to topple Saddam the way we did. If Bush, who had very
high
poll numbers at the time, had come to the American people, and said,
listen,
Saddam is murdering his people, I think we should do something, Bush
would
have likely gotten approval to do something from a Republican controlled
Congress, perhaps even to go to war.

No we would not have. This is evidenced by your earlier statement
that Bush has said there is Genocide in Africa but nobody is calling
for us to go to war there nobody is outraged and screaming on the news
for us to be in Africa. We say oh that's too bad and watch more
American Idol. The only reason we are doing the right thing in Iraq
is because the people were lied to. You can't have it both ways. You
can't say the onyl reason we went to war in Iraq is because we were
lied to even though we may be helping people and then turn around and
say we aren't in Africa because even though we know the truth and what
is going on there.

You know this because you're an expert in all things related to how
Americans think, feel, act. Well, ok....

And, let's not forget the "other" war in Afganistan. No one thinks there
was
lack of reasons to fight there. Initially, we did a great job, but now,
due
to lack of military resources, that situation is starting to fall
apart... a
place where Bin Laden and his buddies are *still* entrenched. All of this
because of a war of choice.

The war in Afganistan is not with Afganistan but with Bin Laden and
his followers who have been effectively stopped. We haven't left yet
because if we do they may come back until we find Bin Laden and all of
his followers. Last time I checked there hasn't been any terrorist
bombings from his group int eh U.S. since we started this war with him
so it seems to be working.

Nope. It's with the Taliban, which was the "legitimate" gov't of Afganistan.

Oh, so because something hasn't happened, therefore it won't happen. Sounds
like Bush's philosophy right before 9/11. He went on vacation.



--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Dave" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 14:21:54 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

I'm sorry, but I have a more optomistic view of Americans. I'm sorry you
don't.

Halliburton.


Ah, is umm, that your idea of a rational argument?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 17:32:15 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

Halliburton.


Ah, is umm, that your idea of a rational argument?

No. It's yours. Have to get down to your level of discourse.


Ok. In that case try this... slowly now.... Pel Oh See

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...
On 19 Apr 2007 19:57:03 -0500, Dave wrote:

On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 17:32:15 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

Halliburton.


Ah, is umm, that your idea of a rational argument?

No. It's yours. Have to get down to your level of discourse.

Since the two of you buffoons can't seem to maintain decorum and some
sense of
what should be discussed at such length in a group where it is off topic,
I'm
guessing it would be okay to forget a certain phone call and resume
endless
posts about drug use and homosexuality. Happy to oblige!

CWM


What are you talking about? We're having a semi-rational discussion. Are you
upset by something?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:28:00 -0700, "Capt. JG"
said:

Ok. In that case try this... slowly now.... Pel Oh See

Is that supposed to be like "Owah Tagu Siam?"


g


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com