Happy Days for us, sad ASA'ers
 

"Noone" wrote in message ...
google map
http://tinyurl.com/2yesjk


http://www.zillow.com/HomeDetails.htm?zprop=31924181


If one looks at the value graph they would see he bought at the absolute
peak and now it's a 5K$/month slide until it hits its pre bubble value of
325K$. That's over a $100K loss folks! There's a real estate investment
tycoon if there ever was one!

aahaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhhahahah ahahahahahaaa!!!

Happy Days for us, sad ASA'ers
 

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
BTW, I'm strongly considering a Mac 26M.
What is your opinion of that boat?



Cheap, lightly built, ugly, trailer motor sailer for cheap, lightweight,
stupid buyers who couldn't make an informed, worthwhile purchase if his
life depended on it.

Oh, and you have no pride or self-worth. People who admit they bought or
consider buying a MacGregor 26 are proven to have no self-esteem. How
could they while making such a totally uninformed purchase and
lose-your-hat investment?


Wilbur Hubbard

Happy Days for us, sad ASA'ers
 

On 9 Apr 2007 11:31:36 -0700, "Capt. Rob" wrote:

Moorings are for trailer trash and no crappy restaurant (that members
are forced to eat at in many cases), lack of any real services and
semi-access to a boat will convince anyone otherwise.

Wow. Quite a contrast here between you and Wilbur,
who doesn't have a slip and doesn't seem to sail nearly as
often as you do.
Perhaps my respect for Wilbur is misplaced.
BTW, I'm strongly considering a Mac 26M.
What is your opinion of that boat?

--Vic

Happy Days for us, sad ASA'ers
 

If one looks at the value graph they would see he bought at the
absolute
peak and now it's a 5K$/month slide until it hits its pre bubble value
of
325K$. That's over a $100K loss folks! There's a real estate
investment
tycoon if there ever was one!


You mean there's still a real estate bubble??? Who knew???


BWAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHA!


RB
35s5
NY

Happy Days for us, sad ASA'ers
 

perhaps no one really cares.



Hey, lookee, Davey!!!! Trailer trash Moose brains is trying to help
you!
Maybe that's because you both own crappy boats and he's takin' a
shining to ya!
Hee Hawwww!!!!! Looks like love!

BWAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!!!


RB
35s5
NY

Happy Days for us, sad ASA'ers
 

On Mon, 9 Apr 2007 18:22:28 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:


"Vic Smith" wrote in message
.. .
BTW, I'm strongly considering a Mac 26M.
What is your opinion of that boat?



Cheap, lightly built, ugly, trailer motor sailer for cheap, lightweight,
stupid buyers who couldn't make an informed, worthwhile purchase if his
life depended on it.

Oh, and you have no pride or self-worth. People who admit they bought or
consider buying a MacGregor 26 are proven to have no self-esteem. How
could they while making such a totally uninformed purchase and
lose-your-hat investment?

So scuttling the Mac idea, what do you recommend?
I need = 2' draft, decent live aboard accommodation for 2,
no more than 30k ready-to-go.
No blue water or heavy weather sailing.
Used mostly for gunkholing West Florida and the Keys.
You sure seem to know your boats, so any advice appreciated.

--Vic

Happy Days for us, sad ASA'ers
 

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
So scuttling the Mac idea, what do you recommend?
I need = 2' draft, decent live aboard accommodation for 2,
no more than 30k ready-to-go.
No blue water or heavy weather sailing.
Used mostly for gunkholing West Florida and the Keys.
You sure seem to know your boats, so any advice appreciated.

--Vic


Vic, you've got to keep in mind that Wilber, aka Neal, is just a troll.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

Happy Days for us, sad ASA'ers
 

Seaward 26RK. You may have to pay a bit more than 30K. When you say
"liveaboard", I hope you are not expecting a full time home of any sort for
under 30K.

CWM- Hide quoted text -



Ditto on the Seaward. You could also look at a Catboat.


RB
35s5
NY

Happy Days for us, sad ASA'ers
 

* Vic Smith wrote, On 4/9/2007 6:57 PM:
On 9 Apr 2007 11:31:36 -0700, "Capt. Rob" wrote:

Moorings are for trailer trash and no crappy restaurant (that members
are forced to eat at in many cases), lack of any real services and
semi-access to a boat will convince anyone otherwise.

Wow. Quite a contrast here between you and Wilbur,
who doesn't have a slip and doesn't seem to sail nearly as
often as you do.
Perhaps my respect for Wilbur is misplaced.
BTW, I'm strongly considering a Mac 26M.
What is your opinion of that boat?

--Vic

Yes, there is a contrast between RB and Wilbur. One difference is
that RB has never actually sailed out of sight of his slip. Although
he talks frequently of "cruising" he's only spent a handful of nights
at anchor in 10 years.

The Mac 26M has very specific virtues that might make it a good choice
for some people. In particular, its at the upper limit of size for an
easily trailerable boat, and with a big engine it can be much faster
than any normal sailboat. However, its a ****-poor sailer, and you
can do a lot better with a purpose built powerboat.

Happy Days for us, sad ASA'ers
 

I guess you didn't understand what he meant by;
"no more than 30k ready-to-go."



"Charlie Morgan" wrote in

-your-hat investment?

So scuttling the Mac idea, what do you recommend?
I need = 2' draft, decent live aboard accommodation for
2,
no more than 30k ready-to-go.
No blue water or heavy weather sailing.
Used mostly for gunkholing West Florida and the Keys.
You sure seem to know your boats, so any advice
appreciated.

--Vic

Seaward 26RK. You may have to pay a bit more than 30K.
When you say
"liveaboard", I hope you are not expecting a full time
home of any sort for
under 30K.

CWM

Happy Days for us, sad ASA'ers
 

"Jeff" wrote in

Yes, there is a contrast between RB and Wilbur. One
difference is
that RB has never actually sailed out of sight of his
slip. Although
he talks frequently of "cruising" he's only spent a
handful of nights
at anchor in 10 years.

That's because he ''needs'' an airconditioner.

S

Happy Days for us, sad ASA'ers
 

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 09:53:55 -0400, "Scotty"
wrote:

I guess you didn't understand what he meant by;
"no more than 30k ready-to-go."


I understood it,

Apparently not.

Happy Days for us, sad ASA'ers
 

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 11:06:45 -0400, "Scotty"
wrote:


"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 09:53:55 -0400, "Scotty"
wrote:

I guess you didn't understand what he meant by;
"no more than 30k ready-to-go."


I understood it,

Apparently not.




You seem to have missed some of his post. Your computer
must be the same quality as you.

Here it is again:

"no more than 30k ready-to-go."

SBV

Happy Days for us, sad ASA'ers
 

Yes, there is a contrast between RB and Wilbur. One difference is
that RB has never actually sailed out of sight of his slip. Although
he talks frequently of "cruising" he's only spent a handful of nights
at anchor in 10 years.



Well, this is not true of course, but lets assume that it is and
wonder why it would be a problem for Jeff. Suppose I liked to keep my
yacht on land and use it for lawn decor? It's my boat and if it
pleases ME then that's all that matters. People of Jeff's sort are
consumed and angry with how others enjoy themselves. They feel that a
toy, tool or even art form must be used and experienced the way they
say.
Of course this is not what sailing is about. Not one bit. For a
balanced individual sailing is about sailing as you please, when you
please to where you please. If sailing a Swan 60 a few miles a day
makes you happy, that's wonderful. If sailing a 19 footer across the
Atlantic is your cup of tea, drink away. Sailing is about freedom, not
about knuckle headed numb nuts like Jeff or Scotty Potty (who sails
less distance than I do year after year) suggest how you enjoy
sailing. Telling someone how to enjoy their boat is like telling them
what foods they should prefer. It's shameful and only someone who's
life came up short would do it.
If you're lucky enough to own a boat, enjoy it YOUR way and never let
someone like Jeff suggest you're "doing it wrong."


RB
35s5
NY

Happy Days for us, sad ASA'ers
 

Here it is again:


"no more than 30k ready-to-go."


If someone is looking for a boat for no more than 30K, a boat like the
suggested Seaward might be listed above that mark, yet bought below.
Scotty has NEVER and will NEVER own a good boat, so he has no idea.
30K might as well be a million dollars to him. When I was looking at a
boat for no more than 75K, my search criteria extended to vessels
listed to 100K. And some folks suggested I even try 125K range.
In short: Scotty is as clueless to the same level that his sheep is
afraid of him.


RB
35s5
NY

Happy Days for us, sad ASA'ers
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com..
..


Suppose I liked to keep my yacht ...

Your YACHT?

BwaHahahahahahahahahahahha

Happy Days for us, sad ASA'ers
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com..
..


Well, this is not true of course, but lets assume that it
is and
wonder why it would be a problem for Jeff. Suppose I liked
to keep my
yacht on land and use it for lawn decor?

Well then, people would laugh at you even more than they do
now.

But I see your point, same as owning a 4-wheel drive in NYC.

Scotty

Happy Days for us, sad ASA'ers
 

You want to show me some listings for a S26RK for under $30k
?

mmmmmmm?

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
ups.com...
Here it is again:


"no more than 30k ready-to-go."


If someone is looking for a boat for no more than 30K, a
boat like the
suggested Seaward might be listed above that mark, yet
bought below.
Scotty has NEVER and will NEVER own a good boat, so he has
no idea.
30K might as well be a million dollars to him. When I was
looking at a
boat for no more than 75K, my search criteria extended to
vessels
listed to 100K. And some folks suggested I even try 125K
range.
In short: Scotty is as clueless to the same level that his
sheep is
afraid of him.


RB
35s5
NY

Happy Days for us, sad ASA'ers
 

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...


Uh, Scotty. It's VERY common for people shopping for a
boat, house or
other major purchase, to find that their original budget
was
unrealistically low for what they want, and they have to
revise their
budget upwards.

How would you suggest he gets the extra money that he
doesn't have, credit card?

. I realize that $30k sounds like a huge amount of money
to spend on a home by your standards.


yes, it may as well be a million dollars.

SBV

Happy Days for us, sad ASA'ers
 

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...

Who says he doesn't have it?

Weather he has it or not is not the point. He asked for
boats under 30k..

Ask Dave to explain it to you.

SBV

Happy Days for us, sad ASA'ers
 

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...
On 10 Apr 2007 12:42:03 -0500, Dave wrote:

On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 17:28:29 GMT, Charlie Morgan said:

Hey Charlie, what does the AP Stylebook say about "advise" and "advice?"

It says that spell check won't catch some obvious typos.

Not at all obvious. It's a very common error -- not as a typographical
error, but as a grammatical error.

In this case it was a typo. I don't spell words in my head as I speak,
either. Go suck another lemon, and see how you feel.

CWM

I expect better from you Charlie. You and Dave are two of the few who bring
order, decorum, wit and intelligence to this group. Arguing the fine points
of grammar is a delight to those of civilization, culture and taste, a group
in which you belong but frequently stray. A person of your fine breeding and
upbringing should place their egocentric tendencies aside, extend a pinky
properly and sincerely thank Dave for his correction, unless, of course, it
is you experiencing the citrusy taste. Didn't you learn anything from charm
school?

May the Lord have mercy!

Glory!

Bob Crantz

Happy Days for us, sad ASA'ers
 

But I see your point, same as owning a 4-wheel drive in NYC.


Yeah, AWD only makes sense for off road. It doesn't make a car any
safer in the snow or rain, right Scotty Potty?

BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!


RB
35s5
NY

Happy Days for us, sad ASA'ers
 

Hey, Scotty Potty trailer trash man....learn remedial English someday!

Main Entry: 1yacht
Function: noun
Pronunciation: 'yät
Etymology: obsolete Dutch jaght, from Middle Low German jacht, short
for jachtschip, literally, hunting ship
: any of various recreational watercraft: as a : a sailboat used for
racing b : a large usually motor-driven craft used for pleasure
cruising C: any vessel employed for pleasure boating



Doh!



RB
35s5
NY

Happy Days for us, sad ASA'ers
 

* Capt. Rob wrote, On 4/10/2007 12:29 PM:
Yes, there is a contrast between RB and Wilbur. One difference is
that RB has never actually sailed out of sight of his slip. Although
he talks frequently of "cruising" he's only spent a handful of nights
at anchor in 10 years.



Well, this is not true of course, but lets assume that it is and
wonder why it would be a problem for Jeff. Suppose I liked to keep my
yacht on land and use it for lawn decor? It's my boat and if it
pleases ME then that's all that matters. People of Jeff's sort are
consumed and angry with how others enjoy themselves. They feel that a
toy, tool or even art form must be used and experienced the way they
say.

Its not a problem for me, you are entitled to waste your money however
you see fit. The issue is whether you are qualified to give advice on
nautical issues. If someone asks what the most comfortable boat is
when sitting at the dock, or even the most fun for a one hour day
sail, I might send him to you. But this poster is looking for a small
boat to live on, while gunkholing in the Keys. Since you've never
done anything remotely like this, your advice isn't worth a lot.


Of course this is not what sailing is about. Not one bit. For a
balanced individual sailing is about sailing as you please, when you
please to where you please. If sailing a Swan 60 a few miles a day
makes you happy, that's wonderful. If sailing a 19 footer across the
Atlantic is your cup of tea, drink away. Sailing is about freedom, not
about knuckle headed numb nuts like Jeff or Scotty Potty (who sails
less distance than I do year after year) suggest how you enjoy
sailing.

yada yada yada. Its the same old lame argument. Every time I point
out to someone that they should be careful about taking cruising
advice from a marina queen, you throw a little tantrum about how its
your God-given right to sail or not sail anyway you please. Well, I
agree. It is your right to buy a nice racer-cruiser and neither race
nor cruise it. Just don't think you can fool anyone into thinking
you know about either.


Telling someone how to enjoy their boat is like telling them
what foods they should prefer. It's shameful and only someone who's
life came up short would do it.
If you're lucky enough to own a boat, enjoy it YOUR way and never let
someone like Jeff suggest you're "doing it wrong."

I've never said you're doing it wrong, in fact when you got your boat
I commented that it was a good choice for your type of sailing.
However, you have repeated this so many times that we can only assume
that you believe you're "doing it wrong" and you're desperately
seeking my approval. Let me say here and now that its just fine with
me if all you do is daysail and do a long weekend once a year. I fact,
I can honestly say that for my first dozen years of sailing I never
went out of sight of land, and never did an overnight. And I can say
I sailed more (in terms of hands on the tiller, tacking and sail
handling, etc.) in those days then almost any time since.

Then of course, I grew up and found that tacking back and forth in the
same area a bit boring if you're not racing. I'd much rather cruise
the Keys or the Maine coast, even if it means powering a bit, and just
hanging out a bit. And for most of the last 35 years, that's what
I've done.

Happy Days for us, sad ASA'ers
 

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 12:05:27 -0700, "Bob Crantz"
wrote:


"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
. ..
On 10 Apr 2007 12:42:03 -0500, Dave wrote:

On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 17:28:29 GMT, Charlie Morgan said:

Hey Charlie, what does the AP Stylebook say about "advise" and
"advice?"

It says that spell check won't catch some obvious typos.

Not at all obvious. It's a very common error -- not as a typographical
error, but as a grammatical error.

In this case it was a typo. I don't spell words in my head as I speak,
either. Go suck another lemon, and see how you feel.

CWM

I expect better from you Charlie. You and Dave are two of the few who
bring
order, decorum, wit and intelligence to this group. Arguing the fine
points
of grammar is a delight to those of civilization, culture and taste, a
group
in which you belong but frequently stray. A person of your fine breeding
and
upbringing should place their egocentric tendencies aside, extend a pinky
properly and sincerely thank Dave for his correction, unless, of course,
it
is you experiencing the citrusy taste. Didn't you learn anything from
charm
school?

May the Lord have mercy!

Glory!

Bob Crantz


You missed the point, Bob. I was being helpful by pointing out that
Dave is exceedingly dour, and a boorish grind. My advice is that he
should lighten up. He'd be a better person, and life might become
mildly fun for him again.

CWM

I see your point. I like Dave. A man of your talents could use the "velvet
hammer" and coax the fun side out of Dave rather than being a bit blunt
about. Save the blunt stuff for the truly stupid. Dave is a cautious man
with strong reservations as well as convictions. Perhaps we can instill a
sense of soaring idealism in Dave and then he will toss aside the heavy
cloak of practicality. Think of what is possible, rather than what is, Dave!
Relive the greats moments of the past with glorious gestures today! Walk
right in and say "You can get anything you want at Alice's restaraunt" and
then walk right out. When you vote Republican, vote Goldwater! Insist on
using the regulation issue .45 in the pentathalon. Fight cowardice,
compromise and lies! A man does not fight to win, no it is better when the
fight is in vain! Do not lead a life of quiet desparation.

Happy Days for us, sad ASA'ers
 

* Vic Smith wrote, On 4/9/2007 10:00 PM:

So scuttling the Mac idea, what do you recommend?
I need = 2' draft, decent live aboard accommodation for 2,
no more than 30k ready-to-go.
No blue water or heavy weather sailing.
Used mostly for gunkholing West Florida and the Keys.
You sure seem to know your boats, so any advice appreciated.


My first choice for this type of cruising was (and is) a catamaran.
However, it will be difficult find one at $30K; the cheapest I've seen
is about $60K for an old, but serviceable cat. This, however, would
be huge compared to a Mac.

My second choice would be something like this:
http://www.marshallcat.com/
The problem with these is that the larger one at 22 feet is too wide
to take long distance on a trailer. (You can still use a trailer, but
it's a wide load and the mast is not easy to step alone.) But you
would be pretty much guarantee that you'd the prettiest boat where
ever you went.

Third choice would be one of the many "clorox bottle" trailer boats,
of which the Mac is the epitome. However, I would also consider a
small powerboat; personally, I probably get more use out of this:
http://www.parkerboats.net/pages/boa....jsp?boatid=18

There a few bits of info you haven't offered us: First, does this
need to be a trailer boat? Second, are you looking for new, gently
used, or a fixer upper? And if your perfect boat stretched your
budget, would you go for it?

Happy Days for us, sad ASA'ers
 

On Mon, 9 Apr 2007 21:25:12 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
.. .
So scuttling the Mac idea, what do you recommend?
I need = 2' draft, decent live aboard accommodation for 2,
no more than 30k ready-to-go.
No blue water or heavy weather sailing.
Used mostly for gunkholing West Florida and the Keys.
You sure seem to know your boats, so any advice appreciated.

--Vic


Vic, you've got to keep in mind that Wilber, aka Neal, is just a troll.

Even trolls sometimes have useful info (-:

--Vic

Happy Days for us, sad ASA'ers
 

On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 10:25:35 GMT, Charlie Morgan wrote:


So scuttling the Mac idea, what do you recommend?
I need = 2' draft, decent live aboard accommodation for 2,
no more than 30k ready-to-go.
No blue water or heavy weather sailing.
Used mostly for gunkholing West Florida and the Keys.
You sure seem to know your boats, so any advice appreciated.

--Vic

Seaward 26RK. You may have to pay a bit more than 30K. When you say
"liveaboard", I hope you are not expecting a full time home of any sort for
under 30K.

Thanks Charlie, I hadn't seen that one, and it looks real nice, but it
may be too rich for my blood. Don't quite know yet.
No, by liveaboard I meant I could survive a month or so cruising.
Sorry for not being clear.

--Vic

Happy Days for us, sad ASA'ers
 

* Vic Smith wrote, On 4/10/2007 5:24 PM:
On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 09:08:15 -0400, Jeff wrote:

The Mac 26M has very specific virtues that might make it a good choice
for some people. In particular, its at the upper limit of size for an
easily trailerable boat, and with a big engine it can be much faster
than any normal sailboat. However, its a ****-poor sailer, and you
can do a lot better with a purpose built powerboat.

If you want fast speed that's true. But if you want to power at
moderate speed and still have room for excursions you can't beat
the Mac 26M for price and operating economy.

You get what you pay for. Is the Mac that much cheaper than a Hunter
25 or Catalina 250? It won't be any more "economical."

The sail capability
is a bonus. Some Mac owners buy them for that excursion value and use
them exclusively for motoring, even removing mast/rigging.
I've seen some discussion on the Mac forum where that calculation
was done, and to get a power cruiser comparable to the Mac in living
space would be something like a 24' Bayliner at 70k. And I'm sure
that Bayliner is a real gas hog.

You're doing a real apples to oranges comparison here. Also, you seem
to have some misconception about fuel economy. There is no magic
bullet. If specify a length, weight, and speed, its very easy to
compute the required power and estimated fuel economy. There's
nothing inherently economical about a Mac, except that its very light.
And a Bayliner is only a "gas hog" because its much heavier, and
because its 220 HP engine is not going to be too happy running at 8
knots.

Any small boat pushed well under hull speed by an 8 HP outboard is
going to be very economical.


I don't fault them for that if it works for them.
Personally, I would prefer a boat that sails well if it carries sail.
And I'm a bit leery of the load carrying capability of the Mac.
But when all is considered, if that shoe fits me, I'll wear it.
If it fits perfectly, you should get one.

Happy Days for us, sad ASA'ers
 

On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 09:08:15 -0400, Jeff wrote:


The Mac 26M has very specific virtues that might make it a good choice
for some people. In particular, its at the upper limit of size for an
easily trailerable boat, and with a big engine it can be much faster
than any normal sailboat. However, its a ****-poor sailer, and you
can do a lot better with a purpose built powerboat.

If you want fast speed that's true. But if you want to power at
moderate speed and still have room for excursions you can't beat
the Mac 26M for price and operating economy. The sail capability
is a bonus. Some Mac owners buy them for that excursion value and use
them exclusively for motoring, even removing mast/rigging.
I've seen some discussion on the Mac forum where that calculation
was done, and to get a power cruiser comparable to the Mac in living
space would be something like a 24' Bayliner at 70k. And I'm sure
that Bayliner is a real gas hog.
I don't fault them for that if it works for them.
Personally, I would prefer a boat that sails well if it carries sail.
And I'm a bit leery of the load carrying capability of the Mac.
But when all is considered, if that shoe fits me, I'll wear it.

--Vic

Happy Days for us, sad ASA'ers
 

On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 17:21:38 GMT, Charlie Morgan
wrote:

Who says he doesn't have it? He more than likely just set 30k as an
arbitrary estimate he'd LIKE to stay within. That doesn't mean it's a
reasonable estimate, or that it is carved in stone. He may have
millions of dollars and just figured he could get a nice live aboard
boat with a 2 foot draft for that amount. In my opinion, his
estimate was wrong.

You're right here, except I sure don't have millions. I actually used
the 30k for three reasons. I can afford it, since I drive old Chevys.
It's the price of a brand new, full equipped Mac 26M.
And if I said 50k, which would be a stretch, I might get
recommendations for 100k, which is out of the question.
You're right - nothing is carved in stone, and thanks again for
pointing me at the Seaward, which I might be able to stretch to.

--Vic

Happy Days for us, sad ASA'ers
 

"Vic Smith" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 16:21:35 -0400, Jeff wrote:

* Vic Smith wrote, On 4/9/2007 10:00 PM:

So scuttling the Mac idea, what do you recommend?
I need = 2' draft, decent live aboard accommodation for 2,
no more than 30k ready-to-go.
No blue water or heavy weather sailing.
Used mostly for gunkholing West Florida and the Keys.
You sure seem to know your boats, so any advice appreciated.


My first choice for this type of cruising was (and is) a catamaran.
However, it will be difficult find one at $30K; the cheapest I've seen
is about $60K for an old, but serviceable cat. This, however, would
be huge compared to a Mac.

My second choice would be something like this:
http://www.marshallcat.com/
The problem with these is that the larger one at 22 feet is too wide
to take long distance on a trailer. (You can still use a trailer, but
it's a wide load and the mast is not easy to step alone.) But you
would be pretty much guarantee that you'd the prettiest boat where
ever you went.

Third choice would be one of the many "clorox bottle" trailer boats,
of which the Mac is the epitome. However, I would also consider a
small powerboat; personally, I probably get more use out of this:
http://www.parkerboats.net/pages/boa....jsp?boatid=18

There a few bits of info you haven't offered us: First, does this
need to be a trailer boat? Second, are you looking for new, gently
used, or a fixer upper? And if your perfect boat stretched your
budget, would you go for it?

Thanks for those suggestions. To answer your questions, I won't tow
a boat, that doesn't mean a trailerable won't have advantages for
haul out and storage. I'm ignorant on that score, and don't know if
the cost advantage (if there is one) of having a trailerable is worth
what is given up in other areas.
It would be new or gently used. I really don't want to have any
serious fix-ups to do. Excellent hull and mechanicals condition are
important to me. Frankly, that is what most attracts me to the Mac,
because at a decent price you get a new, no-surprises boat.
I'm not sold on that, and until I get to Florida and hire/charter some
boats I won't know what's best for me.
The advice I get here will tell me what to look at, and I really
appreciate that advice.
I would stretch my budget if I could justify it.


You have just proven you are a total ignoramus. First you say that an
excellent hull and mechanical condition are important to you. Then you
say that's what attracts you to a MacGregor26M. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
ha ha!

Don't you realize that's the same thing as saying a dark, full body
taste and high alcohol content is important to you in a beer and then
saying that's why you're interested in Miller Lite. How stupid are
people getting these days?

1) MacGregor uses the cheapest mechanicals in the boating world known to
man.
2) MacGregor has a well-deserved reputation for thin, oil canning hulls.

As for no surprises . . .

MacGregor 26X/M is anything but a no-surprises boat. For example, you
will be constantly surprised at the laughing, snickering and derision
going on behind your back (from real sailors) for owning one. You will
be surprised at how poorly it sails. You will be surprised at how
ostracized you will be for owning one. You will be surprised at how hard
it is to sell the crummy thing at any kind of a reasonable price (The
market is flooded by used Macs that people can't give away). You will be
surprised at how poorly the thing actually motors in anything but flat
water. You will be surprised how the thing barely manages to sail upwind
in a 20kt breeze and the attendant chop. You will be surprised if the
mast doesn't come down around your head trying to sail in a storm. You
will be surprised at how really uncomfortable the interior is. You will
be surprised at how totally unsuitable it is for living aboard. But,
it's your money. Feel free to squander it in any way you choose.

Wilbur Hubbard

Happy Days for us, sad ASA'ers
 

On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 16:21:35 -0400, Jeff wrote:

* Vic Smith wrote, On 4/9/2007 10:00 PM:

So scuttling the Mac idea, what do you recommend?
I need = 2' draft, decent live aboard accommodation for 2,
no more than 30k ready-to-go.
No blue water or heavy weather sailing.
Used mostly for gunkholing West Florida and the Keys.
You sure seem to know your boats, so any advice appreciated.


My first choice for this type of cruising was (and is) a catamaran.
However, it will be difficult find one at $30K; the cheapest I've seen
is about $60K for an old, but serviceable cat. This, however, would
be huge compared to a Mac.

My second choice would be something like this:
http://www.marshallcat.com/
The problem with these is that the larger one at 22 feet is too wide
to take long distance on a trailer. (You can still use a trailer, but
it's a wide load and the mast is not easy to step alone.) But you
would be pretty much guarantee that you'd the prettiest boat where
ever you went.

Third choice would be one of the many "clorox bottle" trailer boats,
of which the Mac is the epitome. However, I would also consider a
small powerboat; personally, I probably get more use out of this:
http://www.parkerboats.net/pages/boa....jsp?boatid=18

There a few bits of info you haven't offered us: First, does this
need to be a trailer boat? Second, are you looking for new, gently
used, or a fixer upper? And if your perfect boat stretched your
budget, would you go for it?

Thanks for those suggestions. To answer your questions, I won't tow
a boat, that doesn't mean a trailerable won't have advantages for
haul out and storage. I'm ignorant on that score, and don't know if
the cost advantage (if there is one) of having a trailerable is worth
what is given up in other areas.
It would be new or gently used. I really don't want to have any
serious fix-ups to do. Excellent hull and mechanicals condition are
important to me. Frankly, that is what most attracts me to the Mac,
because at a decent price you get a new, no-surprises boat.
I'm not sold on that, and until I get to Florida and hire/charter some
boats I won't know what's best for me.
The advice I get here will tell me what to look at, and I really
appreciate that advice.
I would stretch my budget if I could justify it.

Thanks again,

--Vic

Happy Days for us, sad ASA'ers
 

On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 17:06:30 -0400, Jeff wrote:

You get what you pay for. Is the Mac that much cheaper than a Hunter
25 or Catalina 250? It won't be any more "economical."

I'll check those out. I thought I had rejected them for one reason or
another, but maybe I'm just getting confused (-:

You're doing a real apples to oranges comparison here. Also, you seem
to have some misconception about fuel economy. There is no magic
bullet. If specify a length, weight, and speed, its very easy to
compute the required power and estimated fuel economy. There's
nothing inherently economical about a Mac, except that its very light.
And a Bayliner is only a "gas hog" because its much heavier, and
because its 220 HP engine is not going to be too happy running at 8
knots.

Good points. I really do want something very economical under power,
and gunkholing often means powering. Not interested in speed at all,
and sailing whenever possible fits slow and economy perfectly.
A small diesel seems best, but some interior space is lost.

Any small boat pushed well under hull speed by an 8 HP outboard is
going to be very economical.

That may be the best option in the end.

Thanks,

--Vic

Happy Days for us, sad ASA'ers
 

* Vic Smith wrote, On 4/10/2007 6:48 PM:
On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 16:21:35 -0400, Jeff wrote:

* Vic Smith wrote, On 4/9/2007 10:00 PM:
So scuttling the Mac idea, what do you recommend?
I need = 2' draft, decent live aboard accommodation for 2,
no more than 30k ready-to-go.
No blue water or heavy weather sailing.
Used mostly for gunkholing West Florida and the Keys.
You sure seem to know your boats, so any advice appreciated.

My first choice for this type of cruising was (and is) a catamaran.
However, it will be difficult find one at $30K; the cheapest I've seen
is about $60K for an old, but serviceable cat. This, however, would
be huge compared to a Mac.

My second choice would be something like this:
http://www.marshallcat.com/
The problem with these is that the larger one at 22 feet is too wide
to take long distance on a trailer. (You can still use a trailer, but
it's a wide load and the mast is not easy to step alone.) But you
would be pretty much guarantee that you'd the prettiest boat where
ever you went.

Third choice would be one of the many "clorox bottle" trailer boats,
of which the Mac is the epitome. However, I would also consider a
small powerboat; personally, I probably get more use out of this:
http://www.parkerboats.net/pages/boa....jsp?boatid=18

There a few bits of info you haven't offered us: First, does this
need to be a trailer boat? Second, are you looking for new, gently
used, or a fixer upper? And if your perfect boat stretched your
budget, would you go for it?

Thanks for those suggestions. To answer your questions, I won't tow
a boat, that doesn't mean a trailerable won't have advantages for
haul out and storage. I'm ignorant on that score, and don't know if
the cost advantage (if there is one) of having a trailerable is worth
what is given up in other areas.

The ability to haul a boat at a ramp and to stash it anywhere (such as
in your driveway) is pretty big. A downside is that true trailer
boats have a beam under 8'6". On the other hand, you can haul wide
load locally with a simple permit (if you think you need to) so If I
had a boat that would fit on a trailer, I'd probably get one, if only
to have more options if a hurricane is coming.


It would be new or gently used. I really don't want to have any
serious fix-ups to do. Excellent hull and mechanicals condition are
important to me. Frankly, that is what most attracts me to the Mac,
because at a decent price you get a new, no-surprises boat.

Buying new is no guarantee of no-surprises. Trust me, Ive been there.
95% of my new boat worked just fine. The other 5% was a total
disaster. For example, one engine had three emergency service calls
in the first year and a half. All under warranty, all coming during
vacations. One caused a 3 week layover, fortunately in Charleston.
Actually, the first disaster came quick - a clogged fuel 6 hours
after leaving the factory. Normally this wouldn't be a problem, but
the mast was down, the wind was blowing, we were 50 miles from shore,
and I had never seen there engines before. Actually, it took about 3
years to get all the bugs out; its been fine for the last 5 years, and
now things are beginning to wear out. Buying new is not to have all
new stuff, its to have the boat built exactly how you want it.

I'm not sold on that, and until I get to Florida and hire/charter some
boats I won't know what's best for me.

Good thinking.

The advice I get here will tell me what to look at, and I really
appreciate that advice.
I would stretch my budget if I could justify it.

Happy Days for us, sad ASA'ers
 

On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 17:48:24 -0500, Vic Smith
wrote:

On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 16:21:35 -0400, Jeff wrote:

* Vic Smith wrote, On 4/9/2007 10:00 PM:

So scuttling the Mac idea, what do you recommend?
I need = 2' draft, decent live aboard accommodation for 2,
no more than 30k ready-to-go.
No blue water or heavy weather sailing.
Used mostly for gunkholing West Florida and the Keys.
You sure seem to know your boats, so any advice appreciated.


My first choice for this type of cruising was (and is) a catamaran.
However, it will be difficult find one at $30K; the cheapest I've seen
is about $60K for an old, but serviceable cat. This, however, would
be huge compared to a Mac.

My second choice would be something like this:
http://www.marshallcat.com/
The problem with these is that the larger one at 22 feet is too wide
to take long distance on a trailer. (You can still use a trailer, but
it's a wide load and the mast is not easy to step alone.) But you
would be pretty much guarantee that you'd the prettiest boat where
ever you went.

It sure is pretty. To be truthful, I just don't want a 27 year-old
boat, which was the newest I could find.

Third choice would be one of the many "clorox bottle" trailer boats,
of which the Mac is the epitome. However, I would also consider a
small powerboat; personally, I probably get more use out of this:
http://www.parkerboats.net/pages/boa....jsp?boatid=18

If I end up going that route, Wayne pointed me to this, which is nice,
and can be powered "economically." Might be hard to find one I could
afford, but the right 10-15 year-old is doable :
http://www.rosboroughboats.com/leisure.html

--Vic

Happy Days for us, sad ASA'ers
 

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message

You can't always get want you want, Scotty. You, more than
anyone
here, should know that.

Vic also wants a sailboat big enough to live aboard, yet
expects it to
draw less than 2 feet. It's possible that he could really
get by with
a boat that draws 4 feet. If he could be happy with a boat
that draws
4 feet, he might find a boat for 30k that fits his other
criteria.


I see, so when someone asks for ;

''I need = 2' draft, decent live aboard accommodation for
2,
no more than 30k ready-to-go.
No blue water or heavy weather sailing.
Used mostly for gunkholing West Florida and the Keys.

you would advise (not advice) them to buy a Hunter 50 ?
Maybe a Swan 70?
Or a 60' Prout?

SBV

Happy Days for us, sad ASA'ers
 

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...

You can't always get want you want, Scotty. You, more than
anyone
here, should know that.

But I have everything that I need.



Vic also wants a sailboat big enough to live aboard, yet
expects it to
draw less than 2 feet. It's possible that he could really
get by with
a boat that draws 4 feet. If he could be happy with a boat
that draws
4 feet, he might find a boat for 30k that fits his other
criteria.

Yes, I'm quite sure you know what Vic wants more than he
does.

S

Happy Days for us, sad ASA'ers
 

"Capt. Rob" wrote in message
oups.com..
..
Hey, Scotty ....learn remedial English someday!

Main Entry: 1yacht
Function: noun
Pronunciation: 'yät
Etymology: obsolete Dutch jaght,
: what pretensious wanabees call their sailboat
to impress the local yokels.



Oh, well, it fits....you.

Happy Days for us, sad ASA'ers
 

"Vic Smith" wrote in
message ...
On Tue, 10 Apr 2007 18:12:31 -0400, "Wilbur Hubbard"
wrote:


"Vic Smith" wrote in
message

It would be new or gently used. I really don't want to
have any
serious fix-ups to do. Excellent hull and mechanicals
condition are
important to me. Frankly, that is what most attracts
me to the Mac,
because at a decent price you get a new, no-surprises
boat.
I'm not sold on that, and until I get to Florida and
hire/charter some
boats I won't know what's best for me.
The advice I get here will tell me what to look at, and
I really
appreciate that advice.
I would stretch my budget if I could justify it.


You have just proven you are a total ignoramus. First you
say that an
excellent hull and mechanical condition are important to
you. Then you
say that's what attracts you to a MacGregor26M. Ha ha
ha ha ha ha ha
ha ha!

What I meant by that is condition. No balsa cored hull
with rotten
balsa. No chopper gun glass. No diesel blowing smoke or
otherwise
ready to stop. No owner mods to holding tanks that have
let body
wastes saturate already filthy bilges. No moldy, rotten
bulkheads
and cabinetry. No half-assed electrics waiting to short
at the flick
of a switch.
A new boat won't suffer these insults.

A new boat also won't have mauve ( can you say gay) colored
cushions.

Scotty