wrote in message
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"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
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First one has to define exactly what is quality. How do we measure
it.

One measures it by accepted practices that have a history of working.
That's what Lloyds standards in boatbuilding are all about. Tried and
true. Lloyds standards mean a quality boat. Building a boat to no
accepted measure of standards gets you a very inexpensive boat but
you are trading safety and seaworthiness for a cheap price. If you
don't have any reasonable standards yourself this will be acceptable
to you but if you have high standards it will to entirely
unacceptable. It's really very simple.

Oh, speaking of standards, it's standard practice to reply to a post
at the bottom, not the top. See, one little clue and I know you have
low standards. You probably sail a MacGregor 26...

Wilbur Hubbard

Your definition of Quality is not explicit and you do not have any
means of measuring it.
Your understanding is vague and speculative.
Therefore I can only conclude that you do not know what is quality.
Nor will you be able to understand the meaning of building standards
let alone the Mil Specs, history dockets and inspection and test plan.
If you were to build a sailboat how much budget will you allocate for
standards, quality programs and control.


I fail to see your logic. I don't have to know the ins and outs of
quality myself as I don't build boats myself. All I have to know is
there exists certain boat building quality standards among which are
Lloyds and ABS. These organizations certify boat building according to
their established tried-and-true building methods and inspect for
compliance as the boat is being built.

We're talking yachts here not military ships so military specs. and
irrelevant.

As for budget requirements to build a boat to Lloyds specifications I
believe the article posted above mentioned it might be up to 10% more
for the inspection process alone. Of course, quality materials and
proper scantlings necessarily add more to the cost than some cheap,
fly-by-night outfit like MacGregor who just builds to the "sell a boat
cheaper than anybody else can" standards.

Wilbur Hubbard

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
..
snipped.
As for budget requirements to build a boat to Lloyds specifications I
believe the article posted above mentioned it might be up to 10% more for
the inspection process alone. Of course, quality materials and proper
scantlings necessarily add more to the cost than some cheap, fly-by-night
outfit

You are not quite correct here. Anybody can build to Lloyds
specifications-they are available for anyone who wishes to follow them and
certainly they will involve some extra cost if you compare the result with
run-of-the-mill yacht builders specifications.
But this does not involve getting Lloyds to inspect the boat either during
or after building. If a builder says he is building to Lloyds specifications
you have to take his word for it.
If you want a gold plated assurance that the boat complies then you must
specify not only that she is built to Lloyds requirements but also under
under Lloyds survey, inspection and test. That is what is going to cost
serious money as the material suppliers will have to have this requirement
passed down to them to ensure the materials comply. Then the Lloyds surveyor
(N.B. not 'inspector'!) will have to visit the yard at certain defined
stages of construction and sign her off so that work can proceed. Then after
sea trials you will get final approval .
Your chances of getting this done for any mass produced yacht are not good.

Edgar wrote:
"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
..
snipped.
As for budget requirements to build a boat to Lloyds
specifications I
believe the article posted above mentioned it might be up to 10%
more for the inspection process alone. Of course, quality materials
and proper scantlings necessarily add more to the cost than some
cheap, fly-by-night outfit

You are not quite correct here. Anybody can build to Lloyds
specifications-they are available for anyone who wishes to follow
them and certainly they will involve some extra cost if you compare
the result with run-of-the-mill yacht builders specifications.
But this does not involve getting Lloyds to inspect the boat either
during or after building. If a builder says he is building to Lloyds
specifications you have to take his word for it.
If you want a gold plated assurance that the boat complies then you
must specify not only that she is built to Lloyds requirements but
also under under Lloyds survey, inspection and test. That is what
is going to cost serious money as the material suppliers will have to
have this requirement passed down to them to ensure the materials
comply. Then the Lloyds surveyor (N.B. not 'inspector'!) will have to
visit the yard at certain defined stages of construction and sign her
off so that work can proceed. Then after sea trials you will get
final approval .
Your chances of getting this done for any mass produced yacht are not
good.

I seem to recall that one of Edward Heath's yachts (Morning Cloud 3
perhaps?) was built to Lloyds 100+A1 standards. She broke up in a storm in
the English Channel whilst on delivery from Kent to The Solent.

Standards? Don't make me laugh!


DNP

"Edgar" wrote in message
...

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
..
snipped.
As for budget requirements to build a boat to Lloyds specifications
I
believe the article posted above mentioned it might be up to 10% more
for the inspection process alone. Of course, quality materials and
proper scantlings necessarily add more to the cost than some cheap,
fly-by-night outfit

You are not quite correct here. Anybody can build to Lloyds
specifications-they are available for anyone who wishes to follow them
and certainly they will involve some extra cost if you compare the
result with run-of-the-mill yacht builders specifications.
But this does not involve getting Lloyds to inspect the boat either
during or after building. If a builder says he is building to Lloyds
specifications you have to take his word for it.

An individual may build a vessel to Lloyd's standards but it will not be
Lloyd's certified unless it's inpected by Lloyds in the processess of
it's being built. Personally, I would not take the word of a builder. I
would have to see the certificate of compliance or whatever it's called
nowadays before I would trust it is built to Lloyd's standards.

If you want a gold plated assurance that the boat complies then you
must specify not only that she is built to Lloyds requirements but
also under under Lloyds survey, inspection and test.

Yes, that's the value of complying with Lloyds specs - getting the
certificate. Going full zoot. . .

That is what is going to cost serious money as the material suppliers
will have to have this requirement passed down to them to ensure the
materials comply. Then the Lloyds surveyor (N.B. not 'inspector'!)
will have to visit the yard at certain defined stages of construction
and sign her off so that work can proceed. Then after sea trials you
will get final approval .
Your chances of getting this done for any mass produced yacht are not
good.

It's good if the builder is willing to pay for it and the buyer is
willing to pay for the quality. Probably even save the extra costs over
a ten year period on reduced insurance premiums.

Wilbur Hubbard