On 28 Mar 2007 11:20:52 -0700, lid (Jonathan Ganz)
wrote:

In article ,
Frank Boettcher wrote:
On 27 Mar 2007 17:35:46 -0700, lid (Jonathan Ganz)
wrote:

I had to join the union. It was a completely different job function. I
forget the name of it... National something in San Diego.

Jon, I can remember the name of every organization I've worked for
going back fifty years. What's the problem?

I looked it up... National Pen... I had lots of jobs in college. g

It is unusual for a factory in a forced union state like California,
to have very low end and low paid jobs that are outside the bargaining
unit. Being involved in the collective bargaining process for many
years, I'm just trying to understand how that could happen.

I have no idea. That's the way it was. I actually tried to organize
the envelop stuffers and pen stampers at one point... looked up the
procedure in the library, then started calling established unions when
I realized how difficult it would be. Mostly, they weren't
interested. The company had a lot of non-English speakers... probably
illegals... who knows. Anyway, the company found out someone was doing
this and went around saying they were going to give people lie
detector tests. Most of the "American" workers told them to f*ck off,
so it didn't go anywhere.

This the infamous wildcat strike company? Passed over a wildcat
strike without reaction, then the Union committee passed over an
unfair labor practice without comment. When was this. Had to be
between 76 and sometime in the eighties, because I think this company
moved manufacturing to my area of the country sometime in the
eighties. And I'm not surprised they did, if what you say is true.
Incompetent management and incompetent union committe.

I understand you had to join the Union. California is not a right to
work state.

Yah... nice job actually. Fun except for the ink smell.

Point is not moot. Point, stated one more time is that you can move
on or move up from any job. The key is to take one in the first
place, work well, and build on it, either with that organization
within the capacity for promotion or with the next one. Anyone can do
that if they "choose" to do so.

Ah, but sometimes, in fact most of the time, at a minimum wage job
that's just not possible. Anyone cannot do it if they choose anymore
than I can fly a kite in the midddle of a busy street... g

"Most of the time" ?, Give me some facts to back up another statement
grabbed from the air.

I went back to visit Steve D., the manager at my below minimum wage
job from time to time, as I said, had a great deal of respect for him.
All my co-workers gone. All moved on to bigger and better things.
Steve used to keep up with most of his ex-employees for a while.

My sons all worked entry level jobs, (not minimum, as stated minimum
is rarely paid in the poorest state in the nation, moreover, it is
rarely paid anywhere), they've moved on and up as have their
coworkers.

Now I realize, being well versed in statistics when I was a quality
manager, these events do not make a statistically relevant sample.
You, however, have offered nothing but your opinion as usual.

That's what the subject was about, do you remember.

Nope.

Nope, completely lucid. You make constant reference in your posts to
Bush being the direct cause to everything bad in the world. The
conclusion that can be drawn is that you hate him like most liberals
do. I'm just trying to find out if you know something specific that
links him directly to a centuries old problem of people who lack the
individual iniative or personal responsibility to support themselves.
People who are able, but make a choice not to work.

Everything bad? No. Just a major attempt at the ruination of this
great country.

That is the topic. I'm not talking about those who cannot because of
some mental or physical issue, just those who choose not to prepare
themselves or who refuse to take a job.

And, I'm saying that is a very small minority of those who do minimum
wage jobs.

Once again, you made the claim, so back it up. Let's have the facts.

Just did.
No facts given. Where are they. Go back and read it again. Do you
just hate Bush or do you have some facts that link him as a cause of
an age old problem of people who do not want to work or prepare
themselves to work. BE SPECIFIC!!!!!

UNIONS SUCK !


"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
...
On 28 Mar 2007 11:20:52 -0700, lid
(Jonathan Ganz)
wrote:

In article ,
Frank Boettcher wrote:
On 27 Mar 2007 17:35:46 -0700, lid
(Jonathan Ganz)
wrote:

I had to join the union. It was a completely different
job function. I
forget the name of it... National something in San
Diego.

Jon, I can remember the name of every organization I've
worked for
going back fifty years. What's the problem?

I looked it up... National Pen... I had lots of jobs in
college. g

It is unusual for a factory in a forced union state like
California,
to have very low end and low paid jobs that are outside
the bargaining
unit. Being involved in the collective bargaining
process for many
years, I'm just trying to understand how that could
happen.

I have no idea. That's the way it was. I actually tried
to organize
the envelop stuffers and pen stampers at one point...
looked up the
procedure in the library, then started calling
established unions when
I realized how difficult it would be. Mostly, they
weren't
interested. The company had a lot of non-English
speakers... probably
illegals... who knows. Anyway, the company found out
someone was doing
this and went around saying they were going to give
people lie
detector tests. Most of the "American" workers told them
to f*ck off,
so it didn't go anywhere.

This the infamous wildcat strike company? Passed over a
wildcat
strike without reaction, then the Union committee passed
over an
unfair labor practice without comment. When was this.
Had to be
between 76 and sometime in the eighties, because I think
this company
moved manufacturing to my area of the country sometime in
the
eighties. And I'm not surprised they did, if what you say
is true.
Incompetent management and incompetent union committe.

I understand you had to join the Union. California is
not a right to
work state.

Yah... nice job actually. Fun except for the ink smell.

Point is not moot. Point, stated one more time is that
you can move
on or move up from any job. The key is to take one in
the first
place, work well, and build on it, either with that
organization
within the capacity for promotion or with the next one.
Anyone can do
that if they "choose" to do so.

Ah, but sometimes, in fact most of the time, at a minimum
wage job
that's just not possible. Anyone cannot do it if they
choose anymore
than I can fly a kite in the midddle of a busy street...
g

"Most of the time" ?, Give me some facts to back up
another statement
grabbed from the air.

I went back to visit Steve D., the manager at my below
minimum wage
job from time to time, as I said, had a great deal of
respect for him.
All my co-workers gone. All moved on to bigger and better
things.
Steve used to keep up with most of his ex-employees for a
while.

My sons all worked entry level jobs, (not minimum, as
stated minimum
is rarely paid in the poorest state in the nation,
moreover, it is
rarely paid anywhere), they've moved on and up as have
their
coworkers.

Now I realize, being well versed in statistics when I was
a quality
manager, these events do not make a statistically relevant
sample.
You, however, have offered nothing but your opinion as
usual.

"Scotty" w@u wrote in message
. ..
UNIONS SUCK !



I've been a member of a couple of them... depends on your perspective I
guess. They were always pretty good to me.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Scotty" w@u wrote in message
. ..
UNIONS SUCK !



I've been a member of a couple of them... depends on your
perspective I
guess. They were always pretty good to me.


SCAB !

"Scotty" w@u wrote in message
. ..

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Scotty" w@u wrote in message
. ..
UNIONS SUCK !



I've been a member of a couple of them... depends on your
perspective I
guess. They were always pretty good to me.


SCAB !


What's scab? Some new kinda illegal drug?

Wilbur Hubbard

"Scotty" w@u wrote in message
. ..

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Scotty" w@u wrote in message
. ..
UNIONS SUCK !



I've been a member of a couple of them... depends on your
perspective I
guess. They were always pretty good to me.


SCAB !

I thought a scab was when you cross pickets?

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
...
This the infamous wildcat strike company? Passed over a wildcat
strike without reaction, then the Union committee passed over an
unfair labor practice without comment. When was this. Had to be
between 76 and sometime in the eighties, because I think this company
moved manufacturing to my area of the country sometime in the
eighties. And I'm not surprised they did, if what you say is true.
Incompetent management and incompetent union committe.

That certainly seems right, but I don't know anything beyond my experience.
76/77 seems about right. They had terrible management. I was originally
running a paper folding machine... huge beast on which I was originally very
poorly trained because they didn't want to take someone off one for very
long to train me. I got pretty good at it... to the point of being able to
climb off the small ladder and have a seat while listening to the rhythmic
beat of the machine. When it started to get out of sync, I'd get busy. One
time some guy in a suit came by while I was sitting and started bitching at
me for sitting. I told him to f*ck off, so he got all in a huff and walked
off, saying he was going to have me fired. Apparently he was a senior VP or
something (fat jerk). But, that was the one time (literally) when the forman
told him to stuff it, as the other two operators were either on sick or had
quit. Eventually, I had to take them to the labor relations board to get my
last few paychecks. They kept saying the "check was in the mail" after I
finally quit, but never did send it.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 10:12:51 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
.. .
This the infamous wildcat strike company? Passed over a wildcat
strike without reaction, then the Union committee passed over an
unfair labor practice without comment. When was this. Had to be
between 76 and sometime in the eighties, because I think this company
moved manufacturing to my area of the country sometime in the
eighties. And I'm not surprised they did, if what you say is true.
Incompetent management and incompetent union committe.

That certainly seems right, but I don't know anything beyond my experience.
76/77 seems about right. They had terrible management. I was originally
running a paper folding machine... huge beast on which I was originally very
poorly trained because they didn't want to take someone off one for very
long to train me. I got pretty good at it... to the point of being able to
climb off the small ladder and have a seat while listening to the rhythmic
beat of the machine. When it started to get out of sync, I'd get busy. One
time some guy in a suit came by while I was sitting and started bitching at
me for sitting. I told him to f*ck off, so he got all in a huff and walked
off, saying he was going to have me fired. Apparently he was a senior VP or
something (fat jerk). But, that was the one time (literally) when the forman
told him to stuff it, as the other two operators were either on sick or had
quit. Eventually, I had to take them to the labor relations board to get my
last few paychecks. They kept saying the "check was in the mail" after I
finally quit, but never did send it.


In my plant you would have been written up. My supervisors and
managers could not cuss out their subordinates and vice versa. If
that was their culture, they could not work for me. And managers
could not order operators to do anything except correct an unsafe act
or condition. Has to do with the concept of single reporting
line.They would have to go to your direct supervisor, and I can assure
you he would not have still been employed if he told him to "stuff
it", regardless of the current staffing problems.

If you had a problem with a VP or anyone else, the greivence procedure
was there for you to voice it.

I averaged about 20 total grievences/year (300 employees) and had an
orderly operation.

"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 29 Mar 2007 10:12:51 -0700, "Capt. JG"
wrote:

"Frank Boettcher" wrote in message
. ..
This the infamous wildcat strike company? Passed over a wildcat
strike without reaction, then the Union committee passed over an
unfair labor practice without comment. When was this. Had to be
between 76 and sometime in the eighties, because I think this company
moved manufacturing to my area of the country sometime in the
eighties. And I'm not surprised they did, if what you say is true.
Incompetent management and incompetent union committe.

That certainly seems right, but I don't know anything beyond my
experience.
76/77 seems about right. They had terrible management. I was originally
running a paper folding machine... huge beast on which I was originally
very
poorly trained because they didn't want to take someone off one for very
long to train me. I got pretty good at it... to the point of being able to
climb off the small ladder and have a seat while listening to the rhythmic
beat of the machine. When it started to get out of sync, I'd get busy. One
time some guy in a suit came by while I was sitting and started bitching
at
me for sitting. I told him to f*ck off, so he got all in a huff and walked
off, saying he was going to have me fired. Apparently he was a senior VP
or
something (fat jerk). But, that was the one time (literally) when the
forman
told him to stuff it, as the other two operators were either on sick or
had
quit. Eventually, I had to take them to the labor relations board to get
my
last few paychecks. They kept saying the "check was in the mail" after I
finally quit, but never did send it.


In my plant you would have been written up. My supervisors and
managers could not cuss out their subordinates and vice versa. If
that was their culture, they could not work for me. And managers
could not order operators to do anything except correct an unsafe act
or condition. Has to do with the concept of single reporting
line.They would have to go to your direct supervisor, and I can assure
you he would not have still been employed if he told him to "stuff
it", regardless of the current staffing problems.

If you had a problem with a VP or anyone else, the greivence procedure
was there for you to voice it.

I averaged about 20 total grievences/year (300 employees) and had an
orderly operation.




At that point, I wasn't union. I was getting minimum wage. I moved on
eventually to a different job on a 52" printing press.


--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com