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Sailing Cargo Ships making comeback maybe?...Thank the tree huggers

On Mar 6, 8:36 pm, Jeff wrote:
* Joe wrote, On 3/6/2007 8:35 PM:

On Mar 6, 7:12 pm, Jeff wrote:
You're quoting retail "street price" for the commodity you're shipping
in bulk. That makes no sense at all.

It makes sence if you are also the roaster, retailer. That what makes
it work.

Lipton was able to create a vertically integrated tea business, but it
doesn't work very well for coffee, especially on a small scale. The
goal of the small specialty shops is to always have the highest
quality, which means constantly shifting suppliers.

That's OK follow the good coffee in S. America's east coast

Notice I alloted 75K for the facility and a couple workers a year,
that may be low, maybe not.

We have a burger joint here at my dock that has failed as a resturant
5-6 times.
It would make a perfect processing pkg facility, dock the boat right
next to it.
Coffee that sells for $10 a pound roasted up here goes for $2 a pound
unroasted, in 1320 lb pallets delivered here in New England. In
Central/South America that would be $1 a pound or less. Essentially,
the price doubles every time it passes through a hand or is processed.

I just looked at the commodies market an Coffee sells bulk for around
1.00 a pound.

That would be in container loads. Most high quality farmers don't
come close to that amount in a year, so you're limiting yourself to
low quality beans, suitable for Maxwell House and Starbucks.

If you check my figures I alloted 800K for coffee investment giving me
over 5 bucks a pound to pay the grower...Thats 10 time the average
price they get, with that kind of jack, you could source the best.

BTW, I posted the following 5 years ago; I guess its time again:

In the old days, of course, coffee was transported by sailing ship.
The long voyage from the Dutch East Indies would have a natural
sweating" affect on the coffee in the hold. As a result, the coffee
turned a rare shade of brown that brought a premium at auction. It
was believed that it greatly improved the flavor and body. Captains
that brought in "extra brown" were given a bonus. Coffee brought by
sail was termed "ex-sailing ships."

Unlike tea, where there was a premium for fast voyages, coffee usually
traveled on slow ships. The Dutch style was favored - they were
described by one writer as "a hundred feet long, a hundred feet wide,
and a hundred feet high. Sometimes she sailed forwards, sometimes
backwards, and sometimes sideways. After dark, the lights were put
out, all sail was taken in, and all hands turned in for the night."
Towards the end of this era the Dutch ships were largely replaced by
Norwegian vessels.

After the turn of the century, there were attempts to duplicate the
browning process by steam heating coffee brought in by steamships.
The Pure Food authorities got involved, and the demand for brown
coffee fell off. The last coffee-carrying sailing ship to dock in New
York was on Christmas Day, 1914.

reference - "All About Coffee" by William H. Ukers 2nd ed. 1935

Thanks thats good info.

How much do you think a square foot of coffee weighs?
A 20' addition to Redcloud could carry just over 2000 square feet of
cargo.

Could you cram 20 pounds into a square foot?

Joe

Sailing Cargo Ships making comeback maybe?...Thank the tree huggers

On Mar 6, 10:04 pm, "Joe" wrote:
On Mar 6, 8:36 pm, Jeff wrote:

* Joe wrote, On 3/6/2007 8:35 PM:

On Mar 6, 7:12 pm, Jeff wrote:
You're quoting retail "street price" for the commodity you're shipping
in bulk. That makes no sense at all.

It makes sence if you are also the roaster, retailer. That what makes
it work.

Lipton was able to create a vertically integrated tea business, but it
doesn't work very well for coffee, especially on a small scale. The
goal of the small specialty shops is to always have the highest
quality, which means constantly shifting suppliers.

That's OK follow the good coffee in S. America's east coast

Notice I alloted 75K for the facility and a couple workers a year,
that may be low, maybe not.

We have a burger joint here at my dock that has failed as a resturant
5-6 times.
It would make a perfect processing pkg facility, dock the boat right
next to it.
Coffee that sells for $10 a pound roasted up here goes for $2 a pound
unroasted, in 1320 lb pallets delivered here in New England. In
Central/South America that would be $1 a pound or less. Essentially,
the price doubles every time it passes through a hand or is processed.

I just looked at the commodies market an Coffee sells bulk for around
1.00 a pound.

That would be in container loads. Most high quality farmers don't
come close to that amount in a year, so you're limiting yourself to
low quality beans, suitable for Maxwell House and Starbucks.

If you check my figures I alloted 800K for coffee investment giving me
over 5 bucks a pound to pay the grower...Thats 10 time the average
price they get, with that kind of jack, you could source the best.

BTW, I posted the following 5 years ago; I guess its time again:

In the old days, of course, coffee was transported by sailing ship.
The long voyage from the Dutch East Indies would have a natural
sweating" affect on the coffee in the hold. As a result, the coffee
turned a rare shade of brown that brought a premium at auction. It
was believed that it greatly improved the flavor and body. Captains
that brought in "extra brown" were given a bonus. Coffee brought by
sail was termed "ex-sailing ships."

Unlike tea, where there was a premium for fast voyages, coffee usually
traveled on slow ships. The Dutch style was favored - they were
described by one writer as "a hundred feet long, a hundred feet wide,
and a hundred feet high. Sometimes she sailed forwards, sometimes
backwards, and sometimes sideways. After dark, the lights were put
out, all sail was taken in, and all hands turned in for the night."
Towards the end of this era the Dutch ships were largely replaced by
Norwegian vessels.

After the turn of the century, there were attempts to duplicate the
browning process by steam heating coffee brought in by steamships.
The Pure Food authorities got involved, and the demand for brown
coffee fell off. The last coffee-carrying sailing ship to dock in New
York was on Christmas Day, 1914.

reference - "All About Coffee" by William H. Ukers 2nd ed. 1935

Thanks thats good info.

How much do you think a square foot of coffee weighs?
A 20' addition to Redcloud could carry just over 2000 square feet of
cargo.

Could you cram 20 pounds into a square foot?

Joe

OK, what will REALLY be in those bags of coffee? Coffee smell masking
something from the dogs, I'd say square grouper fer sure.

Sailing Cargo Ships making comeback maybe?...Thank the tree huggers

"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...

How much do you think a square foot of coffee weighs?
A 20' addition to Redcloud could carry just over 2000 square feet of
cargo.

Could you cram 20 pounds into a square foot?

Joe

You cannot cram anything _into_ a square foot. Do you mean cubic foot?

Sailing Cargo Ships making comeback maybe?...Thank the tree huggers

"Edgar" wrote in message
...

"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...

How much do you think a square foot of coffee weighs?
A 20' addition to Redcloud could carry just over 2000 square feet of
cargo.

Could you cram 20 pounds into a square foot?

Joe

You cannot cram anything _into_ a square foot. Do you mean cubic
foot?

If you can't cram anything into a square foot there would be no such
thing as a square foot full of light. All square feet would be too dark
to see. So you have made an incorrect statement.

Wilbur Hubbard

Sailing Cargo Ships making comeback maybe?...Thank the tree huggers

On Mar 7, 3:45 am, "Edgar" wrote:
"Joe" wrote in message

ups.com...

How much do you think a square foot of coffee weighs?
A 20' addition to Redcloud could carry just over 2000 square feet of
cargo.

Could you cram 20 pounds into a square foot?

Joe

You cannot cram anything _into_ a square foot. Do you mean cubic foot?

Yeah a cubic foot.

joe

Sailing Cargo Ships making comeback maybe?...Thank the tree huggers

* Joe wrote, On 3/7/2007 10:16 AM:
On Mar 7, 3:45 am, "Edgar" wrote:
"Joe" wrote in message

ups.com...

How much do you think a square foot of coffee weighs?
A 20' addition to Redcloud could carry just over 2000 square feet of
cargo.
Could you cram 20 pounds into a square foot?
Joe
You cannot cram anything _into_ a square foot. Do you mean cubic foot?

Yeah a cubic foot.

The specific gravity of loose green coffee beans (that is, not
roasted) is around 0.85. In other words, a cubic foot is about 50
pounds of coffee.

Sailing Cargo Ships making comeback maybe?...Thank the tree huggers

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
...

"Edgar" wrote in message
...

"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...

How much do you think a square foot of coffee weighs?
A 20' addition to Redcloud could carry just over 2000 square feet of
cargo.

Could you cram 20 pounds into a square foot?

Joe

You cannot cram anything _into_ a square foot. Do you mean cubic
foot?

If you can't cram anything into a square foot there would be no such
thing as a square foot full of light. All square feet would be too dark
to see. So you have made an incorrect statement.

Wilbur Hubbard

Sailing Cargo Ships making comeback maybe?...Thank the tree huggers

"Edgar" wrote in message
...

No I haven't. You are confusing _into_ and _onto_.
Your beam of light only goes onto a square foot. Nothing can go into
something that only exists in two dimensions.

The concept of divergence (used in geometrical calculus) is a measure of any
type of flux crossing a surface as the enclosed volume goes to zero. As the
limit is taken, the enclosed volume shrinks to zero faster than the surface
area. The divergence is a measure of flux crossing a surface of zero
enclosed volume.

In the case of a beam of light entering an enclosed surface, the divergence
would be zero as the light source is external to the enclosed volume. The
total flux entering and leaving the surface (even if it is flat consider
both sides) is zero.

A sphere does exist in two dimensions, for instance in both angle and
radius. Only two dimensions needed to define the surface or volume. Not all
coordinate systems are cartesian or orthogonal.

Sailing Cargo Ships making comeback maybe?...Thank the tree huggers

"Edgar" wrote in message
...

"Wilbur Hubbard" wrote in message
...

"Edgar" wrote in message
...

"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...

How much do you think a square foot of coffee weighs?
A 20' addition to Redcloud could carry just over 2000 square feet
of
cargo.

Could you cram 20 pounds into a square foot?

Joe

You cannot cram anything _into_ a square foot. Do you mean cubic
foot?

If you can't cram anything into a square foot there would be no such
thing as a square foot full of light. All square feet would be too
dark
to see. So you have made an incorrect statement.

Wilbur Hubbard

No I haven't. You are confusing _into_ and _onto_.
Your beam of light only goes onto a square foot. Nothing can go into
something that only exists in two dimensions.

Wrong again, Edgar. A square exists in two-dimensions. A photon at rest
exists also only in two dimensions. It is only when a photon travels
that it exists in three dimensions. A photon in a square is not
traveling. It cannot travel in two dimensions. But it exists. Therefore
it is IN the square.
I hope this helps.

Wilbur Hubbard