Maxprop wrote:
"Jeff" wrote in message
Sailing close to the edge has its risks - if they weren't flipping then
the boat was undersailed or not pushed hard enough. Anyone who has
sailed high performance dinghies will flip on a regular basis. I'm not
sure I ever survived a day on a Hobie 16 without flipping. And capsizing
dinks like a 505 was just as common.
Hmm. After a couple of decades of racing all sorts of dinghies--Snipes,
Thistles, Lightnings, Lasers, Ensigns, MC Scows, and Hobie 16s--without
ever flipping one, I take issue with your contention. I can recall only
two capsizes in two-man boats and very few more in the Laser or MC (when
racing solo), yet I won my share of hardware. A capsize or flip is
essentially a DNF in most boats. Doesn't exactly make sense to be
sailing so "close to the edge" if it means not finishing or finishing
near the back of the pack.
First of all, I was talking about "high performance" dinghies. I really
don't think Snipes, Thistles, Lightnings, Ensigns, or MC Scows count as
"high performance." I've sailed all of them a number of times (except the
scow) and while they're all fine boats, I think it's more than a stretch
to call a Alberg designed keel boat a "high performance dinghy."

You would pick the slowest boat (and the only keelboat) as your example.
:-)

Uh, Max? You're the one who brought up the Ensign, not me.

I have fond memories of the Ensign - a friend bought one and asked me
to help with his first cruise. We went from Mattapoisett to Wood's
Hole and back. It was a first for me in Buzzard's Bay, a first for
strong current ("why is that buoy sideways?"), the first draw bridge.
Our return was a glorious spinnaker run, 12 miles in 20+ knots,
until the owner realized we had overshot our home port by 4 miles and
had a long slog back upwind! But we didn't capsize.


505's weigh 280 pounds, the thistle and lightning weigh in at 515 and 700
respectively, with about the same sail area.

You did, however, refer to a Hobie 16, as did I. And while that boat can
bury a hull rather easily, it really isn't that hard to keep the boat
upright with a little alacrity from the skipper and the guy on the wire.

As I mentioned, most of my Hobie sailing was with crews who had never
seen a trapeze before. I also single handed some, but back then I was
a lightweight.


Secondly, I'll agree that capsizing in a race is not a good thing. In
fact, I'm not sure I ever did it, but I moved up to keel boats pretty soon
after my college days so I didn't spend much time in what was considered
"high performance" at the time (470's, 505's).

I've sailed 470s extensively, but never raced them. Too much spaghetti in
the cockpit for my tastes, but they are fun and do plane easily. I've never
capsized one, however.

Then you never sailed one in extreme conditions, close to the edge.


Gybing is best practiced in a Finn in 15kts. or better. Centerboard *must*
be up, and it's a challenge to keep the boom out of the water. But I've
never capsized one of those either, although I haven't raced them
extensively--just a few times at the local level.

Again, if you never flipped a Finn, you never sailed in extreme
conditions. Actually, my first capsize may have been in a Finn - it
wasn't even very windy but the boat was leaky (it was US-2) and I
allowed too much water to slosh forward triggering a pitchpole!

Before that I had always sailed low performance boats, like Snipes,
Thistles, Lightnings, and Ensigns (actually, mostly Cape Cod
Mercury's) and had never capsized.



Also - I worked and volunteered in collegiate sailing for a dozen years or
so, and I can say equivocally that capsizes were common in certain boats.
....

I raced FJs and 420s in college. My experience with that genera of racing
is that collegiate sailors are, as a rule, not terribly experienced or adept
in higher winds. I include myself in that description, as it was really at
the beginning of my serious pursuit of sailboat racing. Capsizes were not
uncommon at the college level.

Your story is getting shaky here, Max. If you have sailed 470's,
Finns, 420's and FJ's, then why would you even think of referring to
Snipes, Thistles, Lightnings, and Ensigns as high performance dinghies?


... Capsizing in this
situation wold not have been a good idea.

No doubt you sailed more conservatively in that circumstance.

Of course. There are time to be conservative, and times to let it all
hang out.