"Jeff" wrote in message
. ..
Maxprop wrote:
"Jeff" wrote in message

Sailing close to the edge has its risks - if they weren't flipping then
the boat was undersailed or not pushed hard enough. Anyone who has
sailed high performance dinghies will flip on a regular basis. I'm not
sure I ever survived a day on a Hobie 16 without flipping. And capsizing
dinks like a 505 was just as common.

Hmm. After a couple of decades of racing all sorts of dinghies--Snipes,
Thistles, Lightnings, Lasers, Ensigns, MC Scows, and Hobie 16s--without
ever flipping one, I take issue with your contention. I can recall only
two capsizes in two-man boats and very few more in the Laser or MC (when
racing solo), yet I won my share of hardware. A capsize or flip is
essentially a DNF in most boats. Doesn't exactly make sense to be
sailing so "close to the edge" if it means not finishing or finishing
near the back of the pack.

First of all, I was talking about "high performance" dinghies. I really
don't think Snipes, Thistles, Lightnings, Ensigns, or MC Scows count as
"high performance." I've sailed all of them a number of times (except the
scow) and while they're all fine boats, I think it's more than a stretch
to call a Alberg designed keel boat a "high performance dinghy."

You would pick the slowest boat (and the only keelboat) as your example.
:-)

505's weigh 280 pounds, the thistle and lightning weigh in at 515 and 700
respectively, with about the same sail area.

You did, however, refer to a Hobie 16, as did I. And while that boat can
bury a hull rather easily, it really isn't that hard to keep the boat
upright with a little alacrity from the skipper and the guy on the wire.

Secondly, I'll agree that capsizing in a race is not a good thing. In
fact, I'm not sure I ever did it, but I moved up to keel boats pretty soon
after my college days so I didn't spend much time in what was considered
"high performance" at the time (470's, 505's).

I've sailed 470s extensively, but never raced them. Too much spaghetti in
the cockpit for my tastes, but they are fun and do plane easily. I've never
capsized one, however.

On the other hand, when not racing, we frequently pushed the limits in
stronger wind and capsizes were common. On the windiest days we would do
gybing drills, testing how many we could do in a mile run. How else to
you learn how to jibe the chute in 25+ knots? If you can't flip a few
times on a windy day, what fun is it? In the case of Hobie 16's, I never
raced but had access to a one at a club and generally took out
recreational sailors with no high performance or racing experience to give
them a little thrill. The dock crew would always joke about warming up
the crash boat.

Gybing is best practiced in a Finn in 15kts. or better. Centerboard *must*
be up, and it's a challenge to keep the boom out of the water. But I've
never capsized one of those either, although I haven't raced them
extensively--just a few times at the local level.

Also - I worked and volunteered in collegiate sailing for a dozen years or
so, and I can say equivocally that capsizes were common in certain boats.
In fact, I can remember races when every boat went down! Of course, the
better skippers flipped less often than novices, but during practices it
was no big deal. (And college racers don't use chutes.)

I raced FJs and 420s in college. My experience with that genera of racing
is that collegiate sailors are, as a rule, not terribly experienced or adept
in higher winds. I include myself in that description, as it was really at
the beginning of my serious pursuit of sailboat racing. Capsizes were not
uncommon at the college level.


And one more thing - we well understood the meaning of staying up when it
counted. The same boat that the owner and I flipped a number of times
while playing was used of coastal cruising - stuff a few sleeping bags and
a pack under the bow and head off to the islands! Capsizing in this
situation wold not have been a good idea.

No doubt you sailed more conservatively in that circumstance.

Max