Where There's Water - There Are Sailors!
 

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...

BTW - If you think I revealed my real name in a thread about Hot Tubs, you
are
mistaken. I vaguely remember that exchange, and it was not my real name or
hometown that was posted. Boo Hoo, Crantzy! Know-x failed you!!!!

CWM



What a strange person! Is there someone else I can talk to?

I already told you where you revealed your name and you confirmed it. It
was also double confirmed by assesor's records on that out of state land you
own. Know-x had nothing to do with it as the assessor records are not
available online for that state. Your boat registration is available online
which triply confirms everything. No double secret probation for you!

What thread about hot tubs are you talking about?

Why does it concern you so much whether I know or don't know who you are?
Aren't you being a little bit paranoid? You never did anything bad to me,
you never really say anything bad either. I've done nothing but compliment
you on the fine pictures you take, when RB said I was the 2nd best troll
here I said you were #2 without any hesitation and gave the reasons why, I
stuck up for you when everyone said you wished death upon Ole Thom
(defending you is an unpopular position to take here), I don't interfere
when you are giving someone a good beating and I'm taking the secret of your
identity with me to the grave - I'll never tell! This is all done out of
respect for you and the person that you are. You don't have to be so strange
about it. So do you have to drain the whole hot tub when someone takes a
dump in it or can you just pick out the solids, throw in some chemicals and
run it through the filter for a few days? Or is it just a Baby Ruth sitting
on the bottom?

Where There's Water - There Are Sailors!
 

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 6 Dec 2006 20:37:45 -0700, "Gilligan"


I'm not concerned because I know you are lying. I'm just calling you a
liar, and
you have not been able to defend yourself against that charge.


I don't have to defend anything. It is you who must prove I am a liar, as it
is impossible for me to prove I am not a liar (one cannot prove a negative).


As I said your boat registration information is in the public domain. You've
confirmed it.


Tell me about that hot tub!

Where There's Water - There Are Sailors!
 

Gilligan wrote:
"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 6 Dec 2006 20:37:45 -0700, "Gilligan"


I'm not concerned because I know you are lying. I'm just calling you a
liar, and
you have not been able to defend yourself against that charge.


I don't have to defend anything. It is you who must prove I am a liar, as it
is impossible for me to prove I am not a liar (one cannot prove a negative).


As I said your boat registration information is in the public domain. You've
confirmed it.


Tell me about that hot tub!

Caving in WY:

I did Great X and it was as difficult as its reputation. The entrrance
was a tight squeeze. You had to duct tape cardboard to your coveralls
cuz next you had a 90' drop in a crack covered with "Cave Velcro" that
was so sharp it tore our coveralls to ribbons if we didnt have the
cardboard. You couldnt use a rope in this drop cuz it would just snag
on the "velcro". Next, you had to put your legs into plastic bags and
tape em to your thighs cuz you dropped into a rushing stream with ice
on the sides. You tied into a rope and alloowed the stream to carry
you under a wall where you found yourself dangling in a small pit with
waterfall sprray. Next, you had about a mile of breakdown squeeze
passage that suddenly opened into an amazing hall that was enormous and
seemed to stretch into infinity in the darkness. Our mission was to
carry in supplies to use in case someone got injured in the cave. The
strategy was to keep them in the cave for up to 4 weeks till they could
heal a broken leg enough to do the gawdawful crawl back to the
entrance. I took a brandnew Jansport pack on this trip and it was
shreeded and useless afterwards.

Did Bighorn Horsethief cave and it was not that impressive as caves go.
The area known as "Armpit, WY" which is an old Uranium mine was
entertaining. complete with moldering dynomite, a shack used by cavers
with a woodstove.

Did Fossil Mt Ice cave which is about 10,500" up on a Mt behind the
Tetons. You have to walk up a snow field to the entrance, then climb a
small frozen waterfall. Once inside, the "Snowball" room was like
nothing I ever expect to see again. Covered with large bladelike ice
crystals, it cannot really be described.

Did Tongue River cave near Sheridan which was a nice cave with a lot of
potential. The Canyon going up to it is beautiful. BTW, there is a
section in one of the "Flashman" books ( I think it was "Flashman and
the Redskins") where he recovers in this cave after witnessing the
Battle of Little Bighorn. At least the description was so close that
it has to be this one.

In the East, did most of the classic TAG pits with all of my vertical
climbing being done with Prusiks cuz I just liked em.

Lotsa cavin in N. Fl and South Georgia.

Caves in Mexico including Golundrinas, El Sotano Limon, El Sotano
Tlamaya, El Precipicio.

Caving in Belize, mostly small stuff in the San Augustin area in caves
filled with Mayan artifacts.

One cave in Venezuela on Mt Roraima.

After my first child was born and a good caving buddy died in an
underwater cave I gave up any notions of underwater caving. Then a
good friend fell 180' in Moses' Tomb and lived, but is paralyzed and I
mostly gave up vertivcal stuff. Today, I am afraid to even climb my
mast.

The last two times I went cavin it nearly killed me. It seems that in
my age I have developed a tendency to become dehydrated without knowing
it and I become sorta loopy then, not caring if I get outa the cave at
all. This means I can only do wimpy cave stuff now but my kids love
it.
Gawd I love remembering those days. Every other night I have caving
dreams where I discover a cave that leads to a new world. I rarely
think about the past but when it comes to caving I could do it all day.

Where There's Water - There Are Sailors!
 

wrote in message
ups.com...

Gilligan wrote:
"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 6 Dec 2006 20:37:45 -0700, "Gilligan"


I'm not concerned because I know you are lying. I'm just calling you a
liar, and
you have not been able to defend yourself against that charge.


I don't have to defend anything. It is you who must prove I am a liar, as
it
is impossible for me to prove I am not a liar (one cannot prove a
negative).


As I said your boat registration information is in the public domain.
You've
confirmed it.


Tell me about that hot tub!

Caving in WY:

I did Great X and it was as difficult as its reputation. The entrrance
was a tight squeeze. You had to duct tape cardboard to your coveralls
cuz next you had a 90' drop in a crack covered with "Cave Velcro" that
was so sharp it tore our coveralls to ribbons if we didnt have the
cardboard. You couldnt use a rope in this drop cuz it would just snag
on the "velcro". Next, you had to put your legs into plastic bags and
tape em to your thighs cuz you dropped into a rushing stream with ice
on the sides. You tied into a rope and alloowed the stream to carry
you under a wall where you found yourself dangling in a small pit with
waterfall sprray. Next, you had about a mile of breakdown squeeze
passage that suddenly opened into an amazing hall that was enormous and
seemed to stretch into infinity in the darkness. Our mission was to
carry in supplies to use in case someone got injured in the cave. The
strategy was to keep them in the cave for up to 4 weeks till they could
heal a broken leg enough to do the gawdawful crawl back to the
entrance. I took a brandnew Jansport pack on this trip and it was
shreeded and useless afterwards.

Did Bighorn Horsethief cave and it was not that impressive as caves go.
The area known as "Armpit, WY" which is an old Uranium mine was
entertaining. complete with moldering dynomite, a shack used by cavers
with a woodstove.

Did Fossil Mt Ice cave which is about 10,500" up on a Mt behind the
Tetons. You have to walk up a snow field to the entrance, then climb a
small frozen waterfall. Once inside, the "Snowball" room was like
nothing I ever expect to see again. Covered with large bladelike ice
crystals, it cannot really be described.

Did Tongue River cave near Sheridan which was a nice cave with a lot of
potential. The Canyon going up to it is beautiful. BTW, there is a
section in one of the "Flashman" books ( I think it was "Flashman and
the Redskins") where he recovers in this cave after witnessing the
Battle of Little Bighorn. At least the description was so close that
it has to be this one.

In the East, did most of the classic TAG pits with all of my vertical
climbing being done with Prusiks cuz I just liked em.

Lotsa cavin in N. Fl and South Georgia.

Caves in Mexico including Golundrinas, El Sotano Limon, El Sotano
Tlamaya, El Precipicio.

Caving in Belize, mostly small stuff in the San Augustin area in caves
filled with Mayan artifacts.

One cave in Venezuela on Mt Roraima.

After my first child was born and a good caving buddy died in an
underwater cave I gave up any notions of underwater caving. Then a
good friend fell 180' in Moses' Tomb and lived, but is paralyzed and I
mostly gave up vertivcal stuff. Today, I am afraid to even climb my
mast.

The last two times I went cavin it nearly killed me. It seems that in
my age I have developed a tendency to become dehydrated without knowing
it and I become sorta loopy then, not caring if I get outa the cave at
all. This means I can only do wimpy cave stuff now but my kids love
it.
Gawd I love remembering those days. Every other night I have caving
dreams where I discover a cave that leads to a new world. I rarely
think about the past but when it comes to caving I could do it all day.


Damn, that quite impressive! Did you know Huntley Ingalls or Donald Davis?

Where There's Water - There Are Sailors!
 

Where There's Water - There Are Sailors!
 

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 07:22:33 -0700, "Gilligan"
wrote:


"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 6 Dec 2006 20:37:45 -0700, "Gilligan"


I'm not concerned because I know you are lying. I'm just calling you a
liar, and
you have not been able to defend yourself against that charge.


I don't have to defend anything. It is you who must prove I am a liar, as
it
is impossible for me to prove I am not a liar (one cannot prove a
negative).


You made a statement that you cannot support. You remain a liar until
you support it. In fact you will remain a liar because I know for a
fact that you cannot support it. Tell you what, Crantzy. If you know
my name, you can email me at:



How do I know that's really you and not your brother in Minnesota?



I'm looking forward to hearing from you. Of course if you know my real
name, you can do this and still not be revealing anything in public.
That really doen't leave you much of an excuse.


As I said your boat registration information is in the public domain.
You've
confirmed it.


Of course it's in the public domain. You just don't have access to it.


What don't I have access to? The fact you have owned your present boat for
almost 42 months to the day?



Tell me about that hot tub!


Which one?

Pop a few glucosamines jump in and relax!


CWM

Where There's Water - There Are Sailors!
 

Charlie Morgan wrote:
On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 13:10:45 -0700, "Gilligan"
wrote:


"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 07:22:33 -0700, "Gilligan"
wrote:


"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 6 Dec 2006 20:37:45 -0700, "Gilligan"


I'm not concerned because I know you are lying. I'm just calling you a
liar, and
you have not been able to defend yourself against that charge.


I don't have to defend anything. It is you who must prove I am a liar, as
it
is impossible for me to prove I am not a liar (one cannot prove a
negative).


You made a statement that you cannot support. You remain a liar until
you support it. In fact you will remain a liar because I know for a
fact that you cannot support it. Tell you what, Crantzy. If you know
my name, you can email me at:



How do I know that's really you and not your brother in Minnesota?


As I've said all along... you DON"T know. If you did, you wouldn't
need to ask so many questions. How many other brothers do I have that
I don't know about?




I'm looking forward to hearing from you. Of course if you know my real
name, you can do this and still not be revealing anything in public.
That really doen't leave you much of an excuse.


As I said your boat registration information is in the public domain.
You've
confirmed it.


Of course it's in the public domain. You just don't have access to it.


What don't I have access to? The fact you have owned your present boat for
almost 42 months to the day?



Bzzzt! Sorry. Please try again.




Tell me about that hot tub!


Which one?

Pop a few glucosamines jump in and relax!


CWM


CWM

Cannot recall the names. I do know Miles Hecker who is still caving in
WY. I know Bob Montgomery although we have had a falling out for the
last 20 years.
Dont get me started, I'l be helplessly pulling out maps and going to
check my old gear. The smell of carbide brings back so many memories.
Sometimes when I am digging in the garden, I smell that musty odour of
decay that you get in a cave and images rush back.
There are very few ways that a man can engage in true discovery in
2006 but caving is one way. The knowledge that you are the first to go
somewhere is a powerful drug once you've felt it and it'll get into you
and make you do things you didnt think possible. Going somewhere that
is so close to reality but so disconnected from everyday experience has
to be experienced. It is a primeval world down there and I can almost
feel that it is the chaos before God created light. The thing that
drives cavers is the same thing that drives people to want to explore
space, it isnt science, it is Discovery.
If you're crazy enough to really want to go caving, you oughta get in
touch with the NSS (National Spelelogical Society) on the web. Thye
can tell where your local caving organization is located. Cavers tend
to be secretive and it might be several trips before they allow you
into their clique. Its really a matter of who you would trust with
your life.
Caving was the least expensive sport I ever did. Store bought outdoor
gear just doesnt work for it so you use junk from other sports. You
always look like crap so there is no motivation for anybody to make
nice looking gear. My total outlay for personal caving gear in 1985
was about $100.00. We bought rope together. it is antithesis of
sailing where all the gear looks nice and is really expensive.

Where There's Water - There Are Sailors!
 

wrote in message
ps.com...

Cannot recall the names. I do know Miles Hecker who is still caving in
WY. I know Bob Montgomery although we have had a falling out for the
last 20 years.
Dont get me started, I'l be helplessly pulling out maps and going to
check my old gear. The smell of carbide brings back so many memories.
Sometimes when I am digging in the garden, I smell that musty odour of
decay that you get in a cave and images rush back.
There are very few ways that a man can engage in true discovery in
2006 but caving is one way. The knowledge that you are the first to go
somewhere is a powerful drug once you've felt it and it'll get into you
and make you do things you didnt think possible. Going somewhere that
is so close to reality but so disconnected from everyday experience has
to be experienced. It is a primeval world down there and I can almost
feel that it is the chaos before God created light. The thing that
drives cavers is the same thing that drives people to want to explore
space, it isnt science, it is Discovery.
If you're crazy enough to really want to go caving, you oughta get in
touch with the NSS (National Spelelogical Society) on the web. Thye
can tell where your local caving organization is located. Cavers tend
to be secretive and it might be several trips before they allow you
into their clique. Its really a matter of who you would trust with
your life.
Caving was the least expensive sport I ever did. Store bought outdoor
gear just doesnt work for it so you use junk from other sports. You
always look like crap so there is no motivation for anybody to make
nice looking gear. My total outlay for personal caving gear in 1985
was about $100.00. We bought rope together. it is antithesis of
sailing where all the gear looks nice and is really expensive.


Ingalls discovered the Butler Sinking Creek system in Tennessee. I'm
regularly at the Colorado School of Mines and they have a strong caving
group there. They have even written software to predict where caves are,
just to find some new ones. Check out Spanish Cave in Colorado:
http://www.greatsanddunes.info/MarbleCaves.htm .

Also check out the Pedro Mountain Mummy in Wyoming.

Where There's Water - There Are Sailors!
 

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 13:10:45 -0700, "Gilligan"
wrote:


"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 07:22:33 -0700, "Gilligan"
wrote:


"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
m...
On Wed, 6 Dec 2006 20:37:45 -0700, "Gilligan"


I'm not concerned because I know you are lying. I'm just calling you a
liar, and
you have not been able to defend yourself against that charge.


I don't have to defend anything. It is you who must prove I am a liar,
as
it
is impossible for me to prove I am not a liar (one cannot prove a
negative).


You made a statement that you cannot support. You remain a liar until
you support it. In fact you will remain a liar because I know for a
fact that you cannot support it. Tell you what, Crantzy. If you know
my name, you can email me at:



How do I know that's really you and not your brother in Minnesota?


As I've said all along... you DON"T know. If you did, you wouldn't
need to ask so many questions. How many other brothers do I have that
I don't know about?




I'm looking forward to hearing from you. Of course if you know my real
name, you can do this and still not be revealing anything in public.
That really doen't leave you much of an excuse.


As I said your boat registration information is in the public domain.
You've
confirmed it.


Of course it's in the public domain. You just don't have access to it.


What don't I have access to? The fact you have owned your present boat for
almost 42 months to the day?



Bzzzt! Sorry. Please try again.




Tell me about that hot tub!


Which one?

Pop a few glucosamines jump in and relax!


CWM


CWM

MS Keene State.

Where There's Water - There Are Sailors!
 

Gilligan wrote:
"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 13:10:45 -0700, "Gilligan"
wrote:


"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 7 Dec 2006 07:22:33 -0700, "Gilligan"
wrote:


"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
m...
On Wed, 6 Dec 2006 20:37:45 -0700, "Gilligan"


I'm not concerned because I know you are lying. I'm just calling you a
liar, and
you have not been able to defend yourself against that charge.


I don't have to defend anything. It is you who must prove I am a liar,
as
it
is impossible for me to prove I am not a liar (one cannot prove a
negative).


You made a statement that you cannot support. You remain a liar until
you support it. In fact you will remain a liar because I know for a
fact that you cannot support it. Tell you what, Crantzy. If you know
my name, you can email me at:



How do I know that's really you and not your brother in Minnesota?


As I've said all along... you DON"T know. If you did, you wouldn't
need to ask so many questions. How many other brothers do I have that
I don't know about?




I'm looking forward to hearing from you. Of course if you know my real
name, you can do this and still not be revealing anything in public.
That really doen't leave you much of an excuse.


As I said your boat registration information is in the public domain.
You've
confirmed it.


Of course it's in the public domain. You just don't have access to it.


What don't I have access to? The fact you have owned your present boat for
almost 42 months to the day?



Bzzzt! Sorry. Please try again.




Tell me about that hot tub!


Which one?

Pop a few glucosamines jump in and relax!


CWM


CWM

MS Keene State.

I MIGHT have been to Butler sinking creek in 1983 but I just do not
remember the name of the area. It was a valley where all the streams
went underground in TN.
We were in Co this past year and was tempted to look into Marble Mt
cave but the reality is that I am too out of shape to go serious
caving.
My wife and I lived in Casper, WY in 1980-83 so I do know of the Pedro
Mt mummy, strange.... That area has lots of cave potential and the
Pedro Mts are just one small Mt range out of many in WY. We almost
bought some property on the south side of Casper Mt this past year but
my business is going poorly so we didnt........

Predicting the locations of cave passage................the best we
coudl do was to stare at the cave map and try to look for patterns in
the fractal chaos. The best prediction was by dreaming. Once Frank H
dreamed of a room deep in South Climax cave and when we were there next
we actually found it down what we thought was a deadend passage. While
mapping the "Dream Room" we kept Frank awake (it was his habit to fall
asleep while mapping) for fear he would dream it out of existence while
we were in it.

You've inspired me, I am going home to listen to Rick Wakeman's
"Journey to the Center of the Earth"