Let them Ramble Jon,

Those Right Wing GOPers some where in their very narrowly minded vision
lost sight of the fact that they exist in a "Democratic-Republic" They
have somehow come to believe that the will of the people will be done,
no longer is the Law Of the Land. They like their leader George 2nd seem
to have lost sight of the fact that Majority Rules,

Let them Rant;-----that all they have left; that and a "Lame Duck
President"

Yup! When you're right, you're wrong. :-)

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Let them Ramble Jon,

Those Right Wing GOPers some where in their very narrowly minded vision
lost sight of the fact that they exist in a "Democratic-Republic" They
have somehow come to believe that the will of the people will be done,
no longer is the Law Of the Land. They like their leader George 2nd seem
to have lost sight of the fact that Majority Rules,

Let them Rant;-----that all they have left; that and a "Lame Duck
President"

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Let them Ramble Jon,

Those Right Wing GOPers some where in their very narrowly minded vision
lost sight of the fact that they exist in a "Democratic-Republic" They
have somehow come to believe that the will of the people will be done,
no longer is the Law Of the Land. They like their leader George 2nd seem
to have lost sight of the fact that Majority Rules,

Let them Rant;-----that all they have left; that and a "Lame Duck
President"

Yup! When you're right, you're wrong. :-)

And you honestly believe these next two years are going to be productive and
harmonious.

Been visited by the Tooth Fairy lately?

Max

I think it's possible. I believe the Dems have an opportunity and a risk.
The opportunity is to put things back on track if they can work with Bush.
The risk is that it turn into a witchhunt. I think there is a lot of
justification for and there should be investigations by Congress into what
happened w.r.t. the war in Iraq, the corruption that went on, and the state
of affairs of homeland security. But, it should be a fact-finding effort,
that only assigns blame and punishment to those who deserve it. It should
not be a "let's get the Republicans" tar and feather party to ensure they
remain out of power for 20 years no matter what.

On the other side, Bush needs to get the message that the people want
change, and he needs to truly try and work with Congress to get things done.
He was able to do this as Governor, so it's time to get moving. I'm not
convinced he's truly gotten the message, but it's possible.

I think his presidency has been severely damaged, and certainly his "legacy"
has been tarnished by the war in Iraq. It's possible for him to turn the
remainder of his lame duck time into doing the right thing. It's up to him.
My view is that he should dump the neocons who are left, sideline Cheney
(who's power has diminished because Rummy is gone), and stifle Rove. In
other words, he needs to start acting like the President of the US, not the
president of his fan club.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Maxprop" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Thom Stewart" wrote in message
...
Let them Ramble Jon,

Those Right Wing GOPers some where in their very narrowly minded vision
lost sight of the fact that they exist in a "Democratic-Republic" They
have somehow come to believe that the will of the people will be done,
no longer is the Law Of the Land. They like their leader George 2nd seem
to have lost sight of the fact that Majority Rules,

Let them Rant;-----that all they have left; that and a "Lame Duck
President"

Yup! When you're right, you're wrong. :-)

And you honestly believe these next two years are going to be productive
and harmonious.

Been visited by the Tooth Fairy lately?

Max

"Thom Stewart" wrote
| Let them Ramble Jon,


lol lmao That's like sooo funny! Mr. Rambles himself going on about it.

Cheers,
Ellen

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
I think it's possible. I believe the Dems have an opportunity and a risk.
The opportunity is to put things back on track if they can work with Bush.

Some Dems have already intimated that they'd like to raise taxes. W won't
go for that, no way. Veto. Strike #1.

The risk is that it turn into a witchhunt. I think there is a lot of
justification for and there should be investigations by Congress into what
happened w.r.t. the war in Iraq, the corruption that went on, and the
state of affairs of homeland security. But, it should be a fact-finding
effort, that only assigns blame and punishment to those who deserve it. It
should not be a "let's get the Republicans" tar and feather party to
ensure they remain out of power for 20 years no matter what.

In a perfect world such an investigation would be pretty much as you
describe. Of course it will become a witch hunt, and we're going to hear
"impeach Bush" rhetoric sooner or later. It's inevitable. Strike #2.


On the other side, Bush needs to get the message that the people want
change, and he needs to truly try and work with Congress to get things
done. He was able to do this as Governor, so it's time to get moving. I'm
not convinced he's truly gotten the message, but it's possible.

He needs to acquiesce with respect to embryonic stem-cell research, the Iraq
war, balancing the budget, and a few other issues. But he won't. Strike
#3. GRIDLOCK.

I think his presidency has been severely damaged, and certainly his
"legacy" has been tarnished by the war in Iraq. It's possible for him to
turn the remainder of his lame duck time into doing the right thing. It's
up to him. My view is that he should dump the neocons who are left,
sideline Cheney (who's power has diminished because Rummy is gone), and
stifle Rove. In other words, he needs to start acting like the President
of the US, not the president of his fan club.

About the only thing he and the Dems seem to agree upon is amnesty for
illegals. And of course the conservatives oppose that.

I see no way to avoid gridlock and exacerbating animosity between the
Administration and Congress. It will get ugly, bloody, and very interesting
before the fallout settles.

Call me pessimistic if you will, but I've watched Washington for far too
long to believe otherwise. The division between the left and right extremes
is permanent and untenable. The division between the moderate left and the
moderate right will grow into a chasm.

I'll be happy to remind you of this prediction about two years from now,
Jon.

Max

"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
I think it's possible. I believe the Dems have an opportunity and a risk.
The opportunity is to put things back on track if they can work with Bush.

Some Dems have already intimated that they'd like to raise taxes. W won't
go for that, no way. Veto. Strike #1.

So Republicans are child molesters... "some"?? Who?

The risk is that it turn into a witchhunt. I think there is a lot of
justification for and there should be investigations by Congress into
what happened w.r.t. the war in Iraq, the corruption that went on, and
the state of affairs of homeland security. But, it should be a
fact-finding effort, that only assigns blame and punishment to those who
deserve it. It should not be a "let's get the Republicans" tar and
feather party to ensure they remain out of power for 20 years no matter
what.

In a perfect world such an investigation would be pretty much as you
describe. Of course it will become a witch hunt, and we're going to hear
"impeach Bush" rhetoric sooner or later. It's inevitable. Strike #2.

Actually, we already heard it and Pelosi took it off the table. If
investigations turn up something really bad, should it not be on the table
again?


On the other side, Bush needs to get the message that the people want
change, and he needs to truly try and work with Congress to get things
done. He was able to do this as Governor, so it's time to get moving. I'm
not convinced he's truly gotten the message, but it's possible.

He needs to acquiesce with respect to embryonic stem-cell research, the
Iraq war, balancing the budget, and a few other issues. But he won't.
Strike #3. GRIDLOCK.

You never know...

I think his presidency has been severely damaged, and certainly his
"legacy" has been tarnished by the war in Iraq. It's possible for him to
turn the remainder of his lame duck time into doing the right thing. It's
up to him. My view is that he should dump the neocons who are left,
sideline Cheney (who's power has diminished because Rummy is gone), and
stifle Rove. In other words, he needs to start acting like the President
of the US, not the president of his fan club.

About the only thing he and the Dems seem to agree upon is amnesty for
illegals. And of course the conservatives oppose that.

I see no way to avoid gridlock and exacerbating animosity between the
Administration and Congress. It will get ugly, bloody, and very
interesting before the fallout settles.

Call me pessimistic if you will, but I've watched Washington for far too
long to believe otherwise. The division between the left and right
extremes is permanent and untenable. The division between the moderate
left and the moderate right will grow into a chasm.

Compared to what left and right means elsewhere in the world, we're pretty
tame.

I'll be happy to remind you of this prediction about two years from now,
Jon.

Please!

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
I think it's possible. I believe the Dems have an opportunity and a risk.
The opportunity is to put things back on track if they can work with
Bush.

Some Dems have already intimated that they'd like to raise taxes. W
won't go for that, no way. Veto. Strike #1.

So Republicans are child molesters... "some"?? Who?

??? What has this got to do with the price of beans in Bulgaria???

The risk is that it turn into a witchhunt. I think there is a lot of
justification for and there should be investigations by Congress into
what happened w.r.t. the war in Iraq, the corruption that went on, and
the state of affairs of homeland security. But, it should be a
fact-finding effort, that only assigns blame and punishment to those who
deserve it. It should not be a "let's get the Republicans" tar and
feather party to ensure they remain out of power for 20 years no matter
what.

In a perfect world such an investigation would be pretty much as you
describe. Of course it will become a witch hunt, and we're going to hear
"impeach Bush" rhetoric sooner or later. It's inevitable. Strike #2.

Actually, we already heard it and Pelosi took it off the table. If
investigations turn up something really bad, should it not be on the table
again?

Of course, but such things are absolutely counterproductive for the country.
( the impeachment of Clinton--what was gained by that???) If Bush is
guilty of serious malfeasance, the option for impeachment should be
considered, but I tend to believe that the two political extremes in the USA
are becoming more and more like Israel and Palestine. Retribution for past
grievances escalates from generation to generation. The GOP did a witch
hunt and impeached Clinton. The Dems will now have their pound of flesh,
unless Bush acts, talks, walks, and quacks like a Democrat himself. Of
course that's about as likely as Ellen being a woman.

On the other side, Bush needs to get the message that the people want
change, and he needs to truly try and work with Congress to get things
done. He was able to do this as Governor, so it's time to get moving.
I'm not convinced he's truly gotten the message, but it's possible.

He needs to acquiesce with respect to embryonic stem-cell research, the
Iraq war, balancing the budget, and a few other issues. But he won't.
Strike #3. GRIDLOCK.

You never know...

True, but the short odds are in favor of gridlock. Wolf Blitzer said it
best--"This conciliatory behavior is most unusual in Washington."

I think his presidency has been severely damaged, and certainly his
"legacy" has been tarnished by the war in Iraq. It's possible for him to
turn the remainder of his lame duck time into doing the right thing.
It's up to him. My view is that he should dump the neocons who are left,
sideline Cheney (who's power has diminished because Rummy is gone), and
stifle Rove. In other words, he needs to start acting like the
President of the US, not the president of his fan club.

About the only thing he and the Dems seem to agree upon is amnesty for
illegals. And of course the conservatives oppose that.

I see no way to avoid gridlock and exacerbating animosity between the
Administration and Congress. It will get ugly, bloody, and very
interesting before the fallout settles.

Call me pessimistic if you will, but I've watched Washington for far too
long to believe otherwise. The division between the left and right
extremes is permanent and untenable. The division between the moderate
left and the moderate right will grow into a chasm.

Compared to what left and right means elsewhere in the world, we're pretty
tame.

That's very true, and this last election cycle seems to support that. There
was a lot of crossover voting. Hell, I voted for five Democrats myself.
(you can get up off the floor now, Doug) But typically such calms precede a
rather nasty storm.

I'll be happy to remind you of this prediction about two years from now,
Jon.

Please!

Remind me to remind you.

Max

"Charlie Morgan" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 12 Nov 2006 03:59:49 GMT, "Maxprop" wrote:

Bush senior had a Democratic controlled congress and he couldn't deal with
it.
He just kept whining about GRIDLOCK. He campained for re-election telling
people
that if they would just give him a Republican congress, he'd be able to
get
things done.

Well... The voters essentially ran him out of town on a rail. They did
elect a
Republican dominated congress, and the new Democratic president had no
problem
passing more legislation in his first year, than the previous
administration
passed in it's full term. Clinton never once whined about GRIDLOCK when
faced
with a congress that was controlled by the other party. He worked with
them
effectively. Thats what a good president does.

Would you care to cite some of the meaningful pieces of legislation that
were passed *after* the 1994 midterm elections during the Clinton
administration? Please feel free to highlight those items that were either
Clinton or Democrat initiatives, Charlie.

Anyone who cries "GRIDLOCK" as an excuse is simply declaring their
incompetence,
and inability to act in a bi-partisan manner.

Bipartisanism: (GOP version) Both sides cooperating in such a manner as to
achieve common goals.
Bipartisanism: (Dem. version) Republicans thinking like us Democrats.

The two sides can't agree on how to fix social security. The two sides are
diametrically opposed w/r/t amnesty for illegals (of course Bush is behaving
like a Democrat on this issue). And the far right wing isn't going to give
in on abortion or embryonic stem-cell research. So exactly where do you see
"bipartisan" cooperation, CWM?

And why do you think gridlock is automatically a bad thing? Do we need
another 300 laws and spending programs each session of Congress? Do we need
to amend those laws and rules that have functioned adequately for the past
200 years. The old saying, "idle minds are the Devil's workshop," applies
to Congress in spades.

Max

You said that "some" Dems have called for tax increases. Define some.
Identify them.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Maxprop" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
"Maxprop" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Capt. JG" wrote in message
...
I think it's possible. I believe the Dems have an opportunity and a
risk. The opportunity is to put things back on track if they can work
with Bush.

Some Dems have already intimated that they'd like to raise taxes. W
won't go for that, no way. Veto. Strike #1.

So Republicans are child molesters... "some"?? Who?

??? What has this got to do with the price of beans in Bulgaria???

The risk is that it turn into a witchhunt. I think there is a lot of
justification for and there should be investigations by Congress into
what happened w.r.t. the war in Iraq, the corruption that went on, and
the state of affairs of homeland security. But, it should be a
fact-finding effort, that only assigns blame and punishment to those
who deserve it. It should not be a "let's get the Republicans" tar and
feather party to ensure they remain out of power for 20 years no matter
what.

In a perfect world such an investigation would be pretty much as you
describe. Of course it will become a witch hunt, and we're going to
hear "impeach Bush" rhetoric sooner or later. It's inevitable. Strike
#2.

Actually, we already heard it and Pelosi took it off the table. If
investigations turn up something really bad, should it not be on the
table again?

Of course, but such things are absolutely counterproductive for the
country. ( the impeachment of Clinton--what was gained by that???) If
Bush is guilty of serious malfeasance, the option for impeachment should
be considered, but I tend to believe that the two political extremes in
the USA are becoming more and more like Israel and Palestine. Retribution
for past grievances escalates from generation to generation. The GOP did
a witch hunt and impeached Clinton. The Dems will now have their pound of
flesh, unless Bush acts, talks, walks, and quacks like a Democrat himself.
Of course that's about as likely as Ellen being a woman.

On the other side, Bush needs to get the message that the people want
change, and he needs to truly try and work with Congress to get things
done. He was able to do this as Governor, so it's time to get moving.
I'm not convinced he's truly gotten the message, but it's possible.

He needs to acquiesce with respect to embryonic stem-cell research, the
Iraq war, balancing the budget, and a few other issues. But he won't.
Strike #3. GRIDLOCK.

You never know...

True, but the short odds are in favor of gridlock. Wolf Blitzer said it
best--"This conciliatory behavior is most unusual in Washington."

I think his presidency has been severely damaged, and certainly his
"legacy" has been tarnished by the war in Iraq. It's possible for him
to turn the remainder of his lame duck time into doing the right thing.
It's up to him. My view is that he should dump the neocons who are
left, sideline Cheney (who's power has diminished because Rummy is
gone), and stifle Rove. In other words, he needs to start acting like
the President of the US, not the president of his fan club.

About the only thing he and the Dems seem to agree upon is amnesty for
illegals. And of course the conservatives oppose that.

I see no way to avoid gridlock and exacerbating animosity between the
Administration and Congress. It will get ugly, bloody, and very
interesting before the fallout settles.

Call me pessimistic if you will, but I've watched Washington for far too
long to believe otherwise. The division between the left and right
extremes is permanent and untenable. The division between the moderate
left and the moderate right will grow into a chasm.

Compared to what left and right means elsewhere in the world, we're
pretty tame.

That's very true, and this last election cycle seems to support that.
There was a lot of crossover voting. Hell, I voted for five Democrats
myself. (you can get up off the floor now, Doug) But typically such calms
precede a rather nasty storm.

I'll be happy to remind you of this prediction about two years from now,
Jon.

Please!

Remind me to remind you.

Max