Bart, anti-freeze and drinking water - smart to disassociate?
 

What fun is that?
Scout

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
Can you ask Seaward?


"Scout" wrote in message
oups.com..
.
Uninstalling and analyzing this heater is a good thing.
Further
inspection may just exonerate the design. If you look
closely at the
bottom tubes in this picture,
http://sports.webshots.com/photo/291...97509592UoBucA
you'll notice that they enter the tank through two very
loose sleeves.
Check out the ample clearance between the coil ends and
the sleeves
they pass through. I need to find a way to determine if
what appears to
be an exageration of sloppy pipe fitting is in fact a
clever design
intended to drain any chemicals away from contact with
fresh water
should the tubing leak for any reason. It is possible that
the design
is a tube inside a tube, with the outter tube being an
non-pressure
path out of the unit. If that's the case, I can see why
the hot water
heat is so slow to come up to temperature, but the added
safety feature
would be worth the wait.
As an experiment, I'm thinking of suspending the tank with
the tank
face parallel to the floor, so that any drop of water in
the tank will
drip from the boiler drain. Then, I would feed a stream of
water into
the sleeve and see if it eventually begins to flow from
the other side.
If it does, and if it never flows from the boiler drain,
then I can
conclude that there exists an isolating compartment, which
is vented to
atmosphere, between the anti-freeze filled tubing the
fresh water tank.

If I find that to be true, I'll connect to the engine
again without
losing sleep.
Scout



Jeff wrote:
I think Seaward made two versions, SS and Aluminum.

I have a galvanic isolator, and use the non-toxic
anti-freeze.

Scout wrote:
How many here have a hot water heater that works with
the engine's
coolant system as a heat source?

It is a very thin line separating that toxic material
from your drinking
water supply. The closed engine coolant loop may reach
15 psi when hot,
and could easily outmatch the force in the fresh water
system,
especially if you run dry or turn off your on-demand
pump for any
reason. A pin hole or a crack in the hw heat exchanger
could have deadly
results.

In my work as a boiler tech, we were never permitted
to use toxic
anti-freeze in boilers that produced domestic hot
water (summer-winter
boiler packages). I've replaced tens of those coils
due to leakage!

Just a thought, but Bart's recent comment about
galvanic isolation got
me thinking.

Maybe I'll get that RedDot heater that Ole Thom has
mentioned, remove
the anti-freeze loop from my fresh water supply, and
use those lines to
supply aux heat in the cabin.

Scout

Bart, anti-freeze and drinking water - smart to disassociate?
 

Scout wrote:
How many here have a hot water heater that works with the engine's coolant system as a heat source?


Prob'ly everyone with a water heater. It's extremely common.


It is a very thin line separating that toxic material from your drinking water supply. The closed engine coolant loop may reach 15 psi when hot, and could easily outmatch the force in the fresh water system, especially if you run dry or turn off your on-demand pump for any reason. A pin hole or a crack in the hw heat exchanger could have deadly results.


True, unless you use non-toxic anti-freeze.

In my work as a boiler tech, we were never permitted to use toxic anti-freeze in boilers that produced domestic hot water (summer-winter boiler packages). I've replaced tens of those coils due to leakage!

That's a good idea. It's also a good idea to make it part of
your regular maintenance checks, insure no crossover between
the systems.

In most cases, the water tank is at a different level tha
the engine coolant receiver, so it should be fairly easy to
make a test for any leak between the two. For another, many
boats have their pressure water (potable water) system 'on'
most of the time, so any leak would pump drinking water into
the engine coolant loop while the engine was idle.

I get an effective check on ours every time I test the
engine coolant level (ie every time I start the engine).



Bart wrote:

I've sailed on many boat with these systems and it is hard to complain
about hot water.

Dang skippy!



To avoid corrosion an isolation transformer is the best option. Be
sure not to
tie the grounds on both sides together. Incoming circuit ground goes
to
the transformer case, the other goes to your vessel ground, such that
no
DC current can pass from shore power to the vessel. With such a system
you can crank up all AC appliances and forget about corrosion.


An excellent idea for more reasons than just this one.
Isolating the grounds can be a life saver. Unfortunately
these are rather expensive little bits of gear... our boat
does not currently have one, but it's on the list.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Bart, anti-freeze and drinking water - smart to disassociate?
 

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
"Scout" wrote in message
. ..
How many here have a hot water heater that works with the
engine's coolant system as a heat source?

I do, but I don't drink the hot water. Would washing dishes
and showering with it be a problem? If there were a leak,
wouldn't you soon discover it when your engine water gets
low?

Scotty,
It's like having a non-smoking section in a one room house.
If something were to leak into the hot water, it's in your fresh water
system.

Bart, anti-freeze and drinking water - smart to disassociate?
 

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
Scout wrote:
How many here have a hot water heater that works with the engine's
coolant system as a heat source?


Prob'ly everyone with a water heater. It's extremely common.


It is a very thin line separating that toxic material from your drinking
water supply. The closed engine coolant loop may reach 15 psi when hot,
and could easily outmatch the force in the fresh water system, especially
if you run dry or turn off your on-demand pump for any reason. A pin hole
or a crack in the hw heat exchanger could have deadly results.


True, unless you use non-toxic anti-freeze.

In my work as a boiler tech, we were never permitted to use toxic
anti-freeze in boilers that produced domestic hot water (summer-winter
boiler packages). I've replaced tens of those coils due to leakage!

That's a good idea. It's also a good idea to make it part of your regular
maintenance checks, insure no crossover between the systems.

It's those precious moments between the birth of a leak and the discovery of
it that worry me!

Bart, anti-freeze and drinking water - smart to disassociate?
 

Scout wrote:
It's those precious moments between the birth of a leak and the discovery of
it that worry me!


Good point.

But don't stay up at night worrying about it, I mean there's
all kinds of chemicals & junk in your drinking water
already. Anti-freeze is just one more... only causes a
slight amount of dain bramage

DSK

Bart, anti-freeze and drinking water - smart to disassociate?
 

Personal experience?? :-) Sorry, couldn't help it.

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
Scout wrote:
It's those precious moments between the birth of a leak and the discovery
of it that worry me!


Good point.

But don't stay up at night worrying about it, I mean there's all kinds of
chemicals & junk in your drinking water already. Anti-freeze is just one
more... only causes a slight amount of dain bramage

DSK

Bart, anti-freeze and drinking water - smart to disassociate?
 

"Scout" wrote in message
. ..

That's a good idea. It's also a good idea to make it
part of your regular
maintenance checks, insure no crossover between the
systems.

It's those precious moments between the birth of a leak
and the discovery of
it that worry me!


Do you lie awake at night worrying about it?

Scotty

Bart, anti-freeze and drinking water - smart to disassociate?
 

"Scout" wrote in message
. ..
"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
"Scout" wrote in message
. ..
How many here have a hot water heater that works with
the
engine's coolant system as a heat source?

I do, but I don't drink the hot water. Would washing
dishes
and showering with it be a problem? If there were a
leak,
wouldn't you soon discover it when your engine water
gets
low?

Scotty,
It's like having a non-smoking section in a one room
house.
If something were to leak into the hot water, it's in your
fresh water
system.


yes, I realize that BUT would it be harmful if you didn't
drink it. I don't drink the water from my water tank. I
bring water from home, in jugs.

SBV

Bart, anti-freeze and drinking water - smart to disassociate?
 

DSK wrote:
Scout wrote:
How many here have a hot water heater that works with the engine's coolant system as a heat source?


Prob'ly everyone with a water heater. It's extremely common.


It is a very thin line separating that toxic material from your drinking water supply. The closed engine coolant loop may reach 15 psi when hot, and could easily outmatch the force in the fresh water system, especially if you run dry or turn off your on-demand pump for any reason. A pin hole or a crack in the hw heat exchanger could have deadly results.


True, unless you use non-toxic anti-freeze.

In my work as a boiler tech, we were never permitted to use toxic anti-freeze in boilers that produced domestic hot water (summer-winter boiler packages). I've replaced tens of those coils due to leakage!

That's a good idea. It's also a good idea to make it part of
your regular maintenance checks, insure no crossover between
the systems.

In most cases, the water tank is at a different level tha
the engine coolant receiver, so it should be fairly easy to
make a test for any leak between the two. For another, many
boats have their pressure water (potable water) system 'on'
most of the time, so any leak would pump drinking water into
the engine coolant loop while the engine was idle.

I get an effective check on ours every time I test the
engine coolant level (ie every time I start the engine).



Bart wrote:

I've sailed on many boat with these systems and it is hard to complain
about hot water.

Dang skippy!



To avoid corrosion an isolation transformer is the best option. Be
sure not to
tie the grounds on both sides together. Incoming circuit ground goes
to
the transformer case, the other goes to your vessel ground, such that
no
DC current can pass from shore power to the vessel. With such a system
you can crank up all AC appliances and forget about corrosion.


How are you getting DC from the dock anyway?
Charlies walmart charger?


An excellent idea for more reasons than just this one.
Isolating the grounds can be a life saver. Unfortunately
these are rather expensive little bits of gear... our boat
does not currently have one, but it's on the list.

Check out the one you use ggod, I've seen Galvanic isolators cause more
stray current then they prevent.

Joe



Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Bart, anti-freeze and drinking water - smart to disassociate?
 

"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..

"Scout" wrote in message
. ..
"Scotty" wrote in message
. ..
"Scout" wrote in message
. ..
How many here have a hot water heater that works with
the
engine's coolant system as a heat source?

I do, but I don't drink the hot water. Would washing
dishes
and showering with it be a problem? If there were a
leak,
wouldn't you soon discover it when your engine water
gets
low?

Scotty,
It's like having a non-smoking section in a one room
house.
If something were to leak into the hot water, it's in your
fresh water
system.


yes, I realize that BUT would it be harmful if you didn't
drink it. I don't drink the water from my water tank. I
bring water from home, in jugs.

SBV

I hear our water is radon contaminated.
The Reading Prong, doncha know.
Scout