"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Jeff" wrote

| This, as a generality, is nonsense. There are lots of situations
| where amateurs do "serious work." Moreover, towing a boat with a boat
| not setup for towing, is not always an easy thing. Further, if the
| tow declares itself a RAM, you have to respect that.

No I don't have to respect it! People can't go around "declaring" they
are
RAM. They have to be in compliance with a rule that says they're RAM.
That's
part of what my dredge example is all about. I can tell the marine patrol
officer
that I'm a dredging but he's goona arrest me, throw me in jail and I'll
stay there
a long time because I'm not dredging. I'm breaking the law.
It's the rule that makes them RAM. Nothing else. Not if they say so,
not if God
says so... "Oh officer I say I'm obeying the speed limit so that makes it
fact." "Sorry
mam, please sign the ticket here..."

Your like otn. You left out work that severly limits maneuverability.
You can't
pick and choose. Both are a necessary part of the rule.... Using only one
part or
another is not using the rule...

| And using the trawler with its dinghy is not a good analogy. More
| often than not amateur tows involve two equally sized boats. I've
| done hundreds of tows, usually in a 13 foot Whaler, or small launch,
| and many of them I would consider "unruly." Though I never had lights
| I often conveyed with gestures my hope that other would give me a wide
| berth. BTW, try towing a flooded dinghy sometime - slowing down is
| not a good option because the boat will immediately swerve and
| capsize. When the tow has a lot of momentum, the options become very
| limited.

So, the rule says nothing about limited options. It says work that
severely
limits maneuverabilty. Your whaler loses both ways. It's not work as shown
in the examples, (any court would say doing a favor isn't work) and
there's
no severe limitation of maneuverability. You know severe don't you. Look
at the
examples. A dredge is stuck to the pipe. It's severly limited. A
minsweeper has
to stay on a particular course or it will blow up. It's severly limited. A
salvage
or dive operator is attached to the wreck or divers by hoses and cables.
And
on it goes. Show me one example in the rule where the boat can turn right,
turn left, go forward, back up, go around in circles, speed up slow down,
stop
and drink a beer. All the things it can do normally...

| And one more thing: you should listen to Otn, he has more experience
| than all of us put together.

Maybe so but experience isn't the be all and end all. Lawyers and the
courts are.
That's why the rules have to be looked at with a legal eye. Legal and
experience are
two different things. The court will call *expert* witnesses but they're
only a
small part of the proceedings. Sorry, but I can't seem to have much
respect for
otn when it comes to his understanding of this rule. He's wrong. Those
little
pleasure boats-neither one is RAM. The one that was broke down was NUC but
that's another story. You seem to be familiar with court cases and the
rules.
I bet there's one proving me right.

Cheers,
Ellen

Quite a knowledgeable post from such a diminutive blond bimbette.

If only you really looked like those photos, Neal.

Max

Maxprop wrote:

Quite a knowledgeable post from such a diminutive blond bimbette.

If only you really looked like those photos, Neal.

Max

And of course, incorrect. More confirmation its Neal.

"Jeff" wrote
| And of course, incorrect. More confirmation its Neal.

Totally correct. You said so yourself. You just said it wishy washy. I said it firm.
I even had otn eating outta my hand.... Honestly, you men are awful girly. Is there just
one man here who isn't a wimp? Besides maybe Scotty and Joe.

Cheers,
Ellen

G Your version of "eating out of my hand" and mine seem to vary
considerably.
At any rate, as per usual, your uninformed interpretations of the "Rules"
may sound to some as valid points, but no matter what, you generally always
end up being wrong, not only in those interpretation but also in your
reading comprehension as to who said what.
The best thing I can say about Neal is that he misreads post and
misinterprets rules in such a way that in the end, when people are through
correcting him, those with even less knowledge will easily have gleaned
some usefull info they can use to "correctly" interpret the "Rules".

otn

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in
reenews.net:


"Jeff" wrote
| And of course, incorrect. More confirmation its Neal.

Totally correct. You said so yourself. You just said it wishy
washy. I said it firm.
I even had otn eating outta my hand.... Honestly, you men are awful
girly. Is there just one man here who isn't a wimp? Besides maybe
Scotty and Joe.

Cheers,
Ellen

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in message
reenews.net...

"Jeff" wrote
| And of course, incorrect. More confirmation its Neal.

Totally correct. You said so yourself. You just said it wishy washy. I
said it firm.
I even had otn eating outta my hand.... Honestly, you men are awful
girly. Is there just
one man here who isn't a wimp?

In your opinion, whom would that be? You, Neal?

Max

"Maxprop" wrote in message
k.net...

"Ellen MacArthur" wrote in
message

reenews.ne
t...

"Jeff" wrote
| And of course, incorrect. More confirmation its Neal.

Totally correct. You said so yourself. You just said
it wishy washy. I
said it firm.
I even had otn eating outta my hand.... Honestly, you
men are awful
girly. Is there just
one man here who isn't a wimp?

In your opinion, whom would that be? You, Neal?


Gilligan?

"Maxprop" wrote
| Quite a knowledgeable post from such a diminutive blond bimbette.
| If only you really looked like those photos, Neal.


People have too much imagination. They don't understand something so they run around
calling it a sock puppet or a lie or a bimbette.... The more you talk the more you show your
ignorance. Maybe your in the wrong news group. This is alt.sailing.asa not ass!

Cheers,
Ellen