Hey Oz--
 

What can you tell me about Larry Ellison's boat Sayonnara? I'm told he
raced it in the Hobart the year so many died. Any knowledge about that?

I was looking it over rather thoroughly today. It's in storage in a
building in Holland, MI, waiting for who knows what. Sure is a big *******.

Max

Hey Oz--
 

There's a book about it... forget the name. Good book.

I challenged him to a race one, but he turned me down... absolute truth. :-)

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Maxprop" wrote in message
nk.net...
What can you tell me about Larry Ellison's boat Sayonnara? I'm told he
raced it in the Hobart the year so many died. Any knowledge about that?

I was looking it over rather thoroughly today. It's in storage in a
building in Holland, MI, waiting for who knows what. Sure is a big
*******.

Max

Hey Oz--
 

I could not put the book down and actually was
reading it aloud to other people on the boat.

It's called "The Proving Ground"

http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/bibli...16499552:10.98

Lots of info about that particular race.

Capt. JG wrote:
There's a book about it... forget the name. Good book.

I challenged him to a race one, but he turned me down... absolute truth. :-)

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Maxprop" wrote
What can you tell me about Larry Ellison's boat Sayonnara? I'm told he
raced it in the Hobart the year so many died. Any knowledge about that?

I was looking it over rather thoroughly today. It's in storage in a
building in Holland, MI, waiting for who knows what. Sure is a big
*******.

Hey Oz--
 

I enjoyed the book 'Fatal Storm'.

Scotty

"Bart" wrote in message
oups.com..
..
I could not put the book down and actually was
reading it aloud to other people on the boat.

It's called "The Proving Ground"


http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/bibli...dcover:Sale:03
16499552:10.98

Lots of info about that particular race.

Capt. JG wrote:
There's a book about it... forget the name. Good book.

I challenged him to a race one, but he turned me down...
absolute truth. :-)

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Maxprop" wrote
What can you tell me about Larry Ellison's boat
Sayonnara? I'm told he
raced it in the Hobart the year so many died. Any
knowledge about that?

I was looking it over rather thoroughly today. It's
in storage in a
building in Holland, MI, waiting for who knows what.
Sure is a big
*******.

Hey Oz--
 

That's it! Great book. I liked the description of "apartment building size
waves" and why would any sane person pay to do this. :-)

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Bart" wrote in message
oups.com...
I could not put the book down and actually was
reading it aloud to other people on the boat.

It's called "The Proving Ground"

http://www.powells.com/cgi-bin/bibli...16499552:10.98

Lots of info about that particular race.

Capt. JG wrote:
There's a book about it... forget the name. Good book.

I challenged him to a race one, but he turned me down... absolute truth.
:-)

--
"j" ganz @@
www.sailnow.com

"Maxprop" wrote
What can you tell me about Larry Ellison's boat Sayonnara? I'm told he
raced it in the Hobart the year so many died. Any knowledge about
that?

I was looking it over rather thoroughly today. It's in storage in a
building in Holland, MI, waiting for who knows what. Sure is a big
*******.

Hey Oz--
 

OzOne wrote in message ...
On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 03:12:38 GMT, "Maxprop"
scribbled thusly:

What can you tell me about Larry Ellison's boat Sayonnara? I'm told he
raced it in the Hobart the year so many died. Any knowledge about that?

I was looking it over rather thoroughly today. It's in storage in a
building in Holland, MI, waiting for who knows what. Sure is a big
*******.

Max


As far as know, Sayonara suffered massive structural damage in the
'98 Hobart race and was in imminent danger of breaking up.

Maybe she has been retired for that reason...I don't know.

I think she must have been completely rebuilt. She looks brand new. Has an
untouched epoxy bottom coating and the gelcoat is flawless. The keel is in
flat plates, ready for assembly and lying underneath, and they look like
brand new lead. I couldn't find anything on her that doesn't appear new.
Perhaps that's why she's here--for a rebuild. No one with whom I spoke
seems to know, other than the fact that she's been sitting in the building
for five years or more. My guess is that she was rebuilt about the same
time Larry E. lost interest in her.

We're looking at a boat in the same building. Next time we're there, I'll
take a few shots of her, if someone can give me a place to post 'em.

Max

Hey Oz--
 

Maxprop wrote:
OzOne wrote in message ...
On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 03:12:38 GMT, "Maxprop"
scribbled thusly:

What can you tell me about Larry Ellison's boat Sayonnara? I'm told he
raced it in the Hobart the year so many died. Any knowledge about that?

I was looking it over rather thoroughly today. It's in storage in a
building in Holland, MI, waiting for who knows what. Sure is a big
*******.

Max


As far as know, Sayonara suffered massive structural damage in the
'98 Hobart race and was in imminent danger of breaking up.

Maybe she has been retired for that reason...I don't know.

I think she must have been completely rebuilt. She looks brand new. Has an
untouched epoxy bottom coating and the gelcoat is flawless. The keel is in
flat plates, ready for assembly and lying underneath, and they look like
brand new lead. I couldn't find anything on her that doesn't appear new.
Perhaps that's why she's here--for a rebuild. No one with whom I spoke
seems to know, other than the fact that she's been sitting in the building
for five years or more. My guess is that she was rebuilt about the same
time Larry E. lost interest in her.

We're looking at a boat in the same building. Next time we're there, I'll
take a few shots of her, if someone can give me a place to post 'em.

Max

You ought to see if it's for sell, if Larry has lost interest and it's
costing him to store it perhaps you can pick it up for a song.

Joe

Hey Oz--
 

Maxprop wrote:
OzOne wrote in message ...
On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 03:12:38 GMT, "Maxprop"
scribbled thusly:

What can you tell me about Larry Ellison's boat Sayonnara? I'm told he
raced it in the Hobart the year so many died. Any knowledge about that?

I was looking it over rather thoroughly today. It's in storage in a
building in Holland, MI, waiting for who knows what. Sure is a big
*******.

Max

As far as know, Sayonara suffered massive structural damage in the
'98 Hobart race and was in imminent danger of breaking up.

Maybe she has been retired for that reason...I don't know.

I think she must have been completely rebuilt. She looks brand new. Has an
untouched epoxy bottom coating and the gelcoat is flawless. The keel is in
flat plates, ready for assembly and lying underneath, and they look like
brand new lead. I couldn't find anything on her that doesn't appear new.
Perhaps that's why she's here--for a rebuild. No one with whom I spoke
seems to know, other than the fact that she's been sitting in the building
for five years or more. My guess is that she was rebuilt about the same
time Larry E. lost interest in her.

We're looking at a boat in the same building. Next time we're there, I'll
take a few shots of her, if someone can give me a place to post 'em.

Max



Just get a webshots site for yourself...it doesn't cost anything...

Hey Oz--
 

Try photobucket

Maxprop wrote:
We're looking at a boat in the same building. Next time we're there, I'll
take a few shots of her, if someone can give me a place to post 'em.

Hey Oz--
 

Maxprop wrote:
What can you tell me about Larry Ellison's boat Sayonnara? I'm told he
raced it in the Hobart the year so many died. Any knowledge about that?

I was looking it over rather thoroughly today. It's in storage in a
building in Holland, MI, waiting for who knows what. Sure is a big *******.

I saw it when it got into Hobart in 1998. Yep it's a big *******. IIRC
he took line honours & swore he'd never do that race again.

PDW

Hey Oz--
 

OzOne wrote:
On 25 Sep 2006 17:57:21 -0700, "Peter"
scribbled thusly:


Maxprop wrote:
What can you tell me about Larry Ellison's boat Sayonnara? I'm told he
raced it in the Hobart the year so many died. Any knowledge about that?

I was looking it over rather thoroughly today. It's in storage in a
building in Holland, MI, waiting for who knows what. Sure is a big *******.

I saw it when it got into Hobart in 1998. Yep it's a big *******. IIRC
he took line honours & swore he'd never do that race again.

PDW

My understanding is that he was totally disabled by seasickness and
fear after the storm hit, and yes, he did say that he would never do
that race again despite surviving and taking line honours.

I don't hold that in any way against the man, I know of a dozen or
more who gave up distance ocean racing after their experiences in '98.
One, a yachtsman of world renown has not sailed outside Sydney Heads
since if my memory serves me well.


Geeeze, what a bunch of pussies.

But that shows you many men who can afford Hoybart yachts are lubber's
to start with, who bought thier way to sea. To bad not many real
sailors can afford 60 ft ocean sleads.

Joe




Don't recall Ellison ever coming back here.


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Hey Oz--
 

OzOne wrote:
On 25 Sep 2006 17:57:21 -0700, "Peter"
scribbled thusly:


Maxprop wrote:
What can you tell me about Larry Ellison's boat Sayonnara? I'm told he
raced it in the Hobart the year so many died. Any knowledge about that?

I was looking it over rather thoroughly today. It's in storage in a
building in Holland, MI, waiting for who knows what. Sure is a big *******.

I saw it when it got into Hobart in 1998. Yep it's a big *******. IIRC
he took line honours & swore he'd never do that race again.

PDW

My understanding is that he was totally disabled by seasickness and
fear after the storm hit, and yes, he did say that he would never do
that race again despite surviving and taking line honours.

I don't hold that in any way against the man, I know of a dozen or
more who gave up distance ocean racing after their experiences in '98.

I don't hold it against him either. Said that myself more than once. So
far I forget soon enough to keep going back tho. 174 km/h off of
Matsuyker Is last week. Guess where I'm going next week...... straight
down 147E.

Had a close up look at the surviving fleet in 98. My objection to them
was & is the same. Structural integrity & seakindliness has been
sacrificed for speed. Fine provided nothing goes wrong, but when it
does, those yachts are dangerous.

One, a yachtsman of world renown has not sailed outside Sydney Heads
since if my memory serves me well.

Don't recall Ellison ever coming back here.

No loss. Oracle is the Microsoft of dbms. In quality & ethics. I ported
our ship logging system off of Oracle soon after I took over here and
we've never regretted it.

PDW

Hey Oz--
 

Joe wrote:
OzOne wrote:
On 25 Sep 2006 17:57:21 -0700, "Peter"
scribbled thusly:


Maxprop wrote:
What can you tell me about Larry Ellison's boat Sayonnara? I'm told he
raced it in the Hobart the year so many died. Any knowledge about that?

I was looking it over rather thoroughly today. It's in storage in a
building in Holland, MI, waiting for who knows what. Sure is a big *******.

I saw it when it got into Hobart in 1998. Yep it's a big *******. IIRC
he took line honours & swore he'd never do that race again.

PDW

My understanding is that he was totally disabled by seasickness and
fear after the storm hit, and yes, he did say that he would never do
that race again despite surviving and taking line honours.

I don't hold that in any way against the man, I know of a dozen or
more who gave up distance ocean racing after their experiences in '98.
One, a yachtsman of world renown has not sailed outside Sydney Heads
since if my memory serves me well.


Geeeze, what a bunch of pussies.

But that shows you many men who can afford Hoybart yachts are lubber's
to start with, who bought thier way to sea. To bad not many real
sailors can afford 60 ft ocean sleads.

Nothing stopping you having a go, Joe. You won't win line honours but
you might win on handicap in your boat. Go for it in 2008/9 and I'll
buy you a beer. Next year I won't be here when the fleet gets in.

PDW

Hey Oz--
 

Peter wrote:
Joe wrote:
OzOne wrote:
On 25 Sep 2006 17:57:21 -0700, "Peter"
scribbled thusly:


Maxprop wrote:
What can you tell me about Larry Ellison's boat Sayonnara? I'm told he
raced it in the Hobart the year so many died. Any knowledge about that?

I was looking it over rather thoroughly today. It's in storage in a
building in Holland, MI, waiting for who knows what. Sure is a big *******.

I saw it when it got into Hobart in 1998. Yep it's a big *******. IIRC
he took line honours & swore he'd never do that race again.

PDW

My understanding is that he was totally disabled by seasickness and
fear after the storm hit, and yes, he did say that he would never do
that race again despite surviving and taking line honours.

I don't hold that in any way against the man, I know of a dozen or
more who gave up distance ocean racing after their experiences in '98.
One, a yachtsman of world renown has not sailed outside Sydney Heads
since if my memory serves me well.


Geeeze, what a bunch of pussies.

But that shows you many men who can afford Hoybart yachts are lubber's
to start with, who bought thier way to sea. To bad not many real
sailors can afford 60 ft ocean sleads.

Nothing stopping you having a go, Joe. You won't win line honours but
you might win on handicap in your boat. Go for it in 2008/9 and I'll
buy you a beer. Next year I won't be here when the fleet gets in.

PDW

Ya find me a 60 ft sled and Ill buy me own ticket peter, I'm not skeerd
in the least.
If you do, and she a proper sled I'll win the race.

Joe

Hey Oz--
 

Joe wrote:
Peter wrote:
Joe wrote:
OzOne wrote:
On 25 Sep 2006 17:57:21 -0700, "Peter"
scribbled thusly:


Maxprop wrote:
What can you tell me about Larry Ellison's boat Sayonnara? I'm told he
raced it in the Hobart the year so many died. Any knowledge about that?

I was looking it over rather thoroughly today. It's in storage in a
building in Holland, MI, waiting for who knows what. Sure is a big *******.

I saw it when it got into Hobart in 1998. Yep it's a big *******. IIRC
he took line honours & swore he'd never do that race again.

PDW

My understanding is that he was totally disabled by seasickness and
fear after the storm hit, and yes, he did say that he would never do
that race again despite surviving and taking line honours.

I don't hold that in any way against the man, I know of a dozen or
more who gave up distance ocean racing after their experiences in '98.
One, a yachtsman of world renown has not sailed outside Sydney Heads
since if my memory serves me well.


Geeeze, what a bunch of pussies.

But that shows you many men who can afford Hoybart yachts are lubber's
to start with, who bought thier way to sea. To bad not many real
sailors can afford 60 ft ocean sleads.

Nothing stopping you having a go, Joe. You won't win line honours but
you might win on handicap in your boat. Go for it in 2008/9 and I'll
buy you a beer. Next year I won't be here when the fleet gets in.

PDW

Ya find me a 60 ft sled and Ill buy me own ticket peter, I'm not skeerd
in the least.
If you do, and she a proper sled I'll win the race.

Borrow Ellison's. Maxprop said he's not using it ATM. There ya go, I've
solved your sled probs. See you when you get here....

PDW

Hey Oz--
 

Peter wrote:
Joe wrote:
Peter wrote:
Joe wrote:
OzOne wrote:
On 25 Sep 2006 17:57:21 -0700, "Peter"
scribbled thusly:


Maxprop wrote:
What can you tell me about Larry Ellison's boat Sayonnara? I'm told he
raced it in the Hobart the year so many died. Any knowledge about that?

I was looking it over rather thoroughly today. It's in storage in a
building in Holland, MI, waiting for who knows what. Sure is a big *******.

I saw it when it got into Hobart in 1998. Yep it's a big *******. IIRC
he took line honours & swore he'd never do that race again.

PDW

My understanding is that he was totally disabled by seasickness and
fear after the storm hit, and yes, he did say that he would never do
that race again despite surviving and taking line honours.

I don't hold that in any way against the man, I know of a dozen or
more who gave up distance ocean racing after their experiences in '98.
One, a yachtsman of world renown has not sailed outside Sydney Heads
since if my memory serves me well.


Geeeze, what a bunch of pussies.

But that shows you many men who can afford Hoybart yachts are lubber's
to start with, who bought thier way to sea. To bad not many real
sailors can afford 60 ft ocean sleads.

Nothing stopping you having a go, Joe. You won't win line honours but
you might win on handicap in your boat. Go for it in 2008/9 and I'll
buy you a beer. Next year I won't be here when the fleet gets in.

PDW

Ya find me a 60 ft sled and Ill buy me own ticket peter, I'm not skeerd
in the least.
If you do, and she a proper sled I'll win the race.

Borrow Ellison's. Maxprop said he's not using it ATM. There ya go, I've
solved your sled probs. See you when you get here....


Ill give Larry a call tomorrow. He called the other day saying he was
going to have to sell Rising Sun due to that insider trading problem,
so maybe Ill be kind enough to take his sled off his hands. I'll let
you know. If he's willing to put er in the water fixed up and ready to
go then Ill be there.

Joe


PDW

Hey Oz--
 

OzOne wrote:
On 25 Sep 2006 18:47:16 -0700, "Joe"
scribbled thusly:



Geeeze, what a bunch of pussies.

But that shows you many men who can afford Hoybart yachts are lubber's
to start with, who bought thier way to sea. To bad not many real
sailors can afford 60 ft ocean sleads.

Ever sailed thru a hurricane in a light displacement fin keeler Joe?

No Oz I havent,,but if you give me one I'll give it a shot. No problem,
I've been in a many hurricanes at sea and know how to use them to my
advantage, specially sailing. I know bys ballot law like the back of my
hand. The worse the seas... the more I feel alive.

Joe


Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Hey Oz--
 

OzOne wrote:
On 25 Sep 2006 19:30:12 -0700, "Joe"
scribbled thusly:


OzOne wrote:
On 25 Sep 2006 18:47:16 -0700, "Joe"
scribbled thusly:



Geeeze, what a bunch of pussies.

But that shows you many men who can afford Hoybart yachts are lubber's
to start with, who bought thier way to sea. To bad not many real
sailors can afford 60 ft ocean sleads.

Ever sailed thru a hurricane in a light displacement fin keeler Joe?

No Oz I havent,,but if you give me one I'll give it a shot. No problem,
I've been in a many hurricanes at sea and know how to use them to my
advantage, specially sailing. I know bys ballot law like the back of my
hand. The worse the seas... the more I feel alive.

Joe

Must have been big boats Joe.

Nah a 32 ft layfette skiff, a 160 ftr .....well then the 865 ftr.

Thats not the point, I'm telling you with a well founded boat no seas
on earth can scare me. Guess that cuz I figure drowning would be a nice
way to go IMO. And Ive been in seas that made most others cower in
terror and I had no fear what so ever OZ, none -de natta. I concetrate
on each wave and love the battle for some reason it's like christmas
morning for me, I love it! I'm not bragging, thats just the way it is.
I have no fear what so ever of the sea. To hear of people who will
never leave a breakwater, because they lost friends is sad IMO. My fear
would be dying in bed asleep, or in an office building closing a deal.

Joe



Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Hey Oz--
 

"Joe" wrote in message
oups.com...

Maxprop wrote:
OzOne wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 03:12:38 GMT, "Maxprop"
scribbled thusly:

What can you tell me about Larry Ellison's boat Sayonnara? I'm told he
raced it in the Hobart the year so many died. Any knowledge about
that?

I was looking it over rather thoroughly today. It's in storage in a
building in Holland, MI, waiting for who knows what. Sure is a big
*******.

Max


As far as know, Sayonara suffered massive structural damage in the
'98 Hobart race and was in imminent danger of breaking up.

Maybe she has been retired for that reason...I don't know.

I think she must have been completely rebuilt. She looks brand new. Has
an
untouched epoxy bottom coating and the gelcoat is flawless. The keel is
in
flat plates, ready for assembly and lying underneath, and they look like
brand new lead. I couldn't find anything on her that doesn't appear new.
Perhaps that's why she's here--for a rebuild. No one with whom I spoke
seems to know, other than the fact that she's been sitting in the
building
for five years or more. My guess is that she was rebuilt about the same
time Larry E. lost interest in her.

We're looking at a boat in the same building. Next time we're there,
I'll
take a few shots of her, if someone can give me a place to post 'em.

Max

You ought to see if it's for sell, if Larry has lost interest and it's
costing him to store it perhaps you can pick it up for a song.

What Larry E. refers to as "a song" would be a complete concerto in my
vernacular.

Max

Hey Oz--
 

"katy" wrote in message
...
Maxprop wrote:
OzOne wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Sep 2006 03:12:38 GMT, "Maxprop"
scribbled thusly:

What can you tell me about Larry Ellison's boat Sayonnara? I'm told he
raced it in the Hobart the year so many died. Any knowledge about
that?

I was looking it over rather thoroughly today. It's in storage in a
building in Holland, MI, waiting for who knows what. Sure is a big
*******.

Max

As far as know, Sayonara suffered massive structural damage in the
'98 Hobart race and was in imminent danger of breaking up.

Maybe she has been retired for that reason...I don't know.

I think she must have been completely rebuilt. She looks brand new. Has
an untouched epoxy bottom coating and the gelcoat is flawless. The keel
is in flat plates, ready for assembly and lying underneath, and they look
like brand new lead. I couldn't find anything on her that doesn't appear
new. Perhaps that's why she's here--for a rebuild. No one with whom I
spoke seems to know, other than the fact that she's been sitting in the
building for five years or more. My guess is that she was rebuilt about
the same time Larry E. lost interest in her.

We're looking at a boat in the same building. Next time we're there,
I'll take a few shots of her, if someone can give me a place to post 'em.

Max



Just get a webshots site for yourself...it doesn't cost anything...

Not into that sort of thing. I often wonder why some folks are.

Max

Hey Oz--
 

"Peter" wrote in message
oups.com...

Maxprop wrote:
What can you tell me about Larry Ellison's boat Sayonnara? I'm told he
raced it in the Hobart the year so many died. Any knowledge about that?

I was looking it over rather thoroughly today. It's in storage in a
building in Holland, MI, waiting for who knows what. Sure is a big
*******.

I saw it when it got into Hobart in 1998. Yep it's a big *******. IIRC
he took line honours & swore he'd never do that race again.

I read the book about that race, and I seem to recall that he did make that
comment. Perhaps that boat was built for that race only. If so, it's
probably looking for a new owner.

Max

Hey Oz--
 

OzOne wrote in message ...
On 25 Sep 2006 17:57:21 -0700, "Peter"
scribbled thusly:


Maxprop wrote:
What can you tell me about Larry Ellison's boat Sayonnara? I'm told he
raced it in the Hobart the year so many died. Any knowledge about that?

I was looking it over rather thoroughly today. It's in storage in a
building in Holland, MI, waiting for who knows what. Sure is a big
*******.

I saw it when it got into Hobart in 1998. Yep it's a big *******. IIRC
he took line honours & swore he'd never do that race again.

PDW

My understanding is that he was totally disabled by seasickness and
fear after the storm hit, and yes, he did say that he would never do
that race again despite surviving and taking line honours.

I don't hold that in any way against the man, I know of a dozen or
more who gave up distance ocean racing after their experiences in '98.
One, a yachtsman of world renown has not sailed outside Sydney Heads
since if my memory serves me well.

Don't recall Ellison ever coming back here.

That race brought quite a few renowned sailors to their knees. To pray, I
think, for survival. Lots of foxhole religion was transacted during that
race: "get me out of this, God, and I promise I'll never do anything so
stupid again . . ." etc.

Max

Hey Oz--
 

"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...

OzOne wrote:
On 25 Sep 2006 17:57:21 -0700, "Peter"
scribbled thusly:


Maxprop wrote:
What can you tell me about Larry Ellison's boat Sayonnara? I'm told
he
raced it in the Hobart the year so many died. Any knowledge about
that?

I was looking it over rather thoroughly today. It's in storage in a
building in Holland, MI, waiting for who knows what. Sure is a big
*******.

I saw it when it got into Hobart in 1998. Yep it's a big *******. IIRC
he took line honours & swore he'd never do that race again.

PDW

My understanding is that he was totally disabled by seasickness and
fear after the storm hit, and yes, he did say that he would never do
that race again despite surviving and taking line honours.

I don't hold that in any way against the man, I know of a dozen or
more who gave up distance ocean racing after their experiences in '98.
One, a yachtsman of world renown has not sailed outside Sydney Heads
since if my memory serves me well.


Geeeze, what a bunch of pussies.

Heh . . . big talk from one who never spent what must have felt like a
fortnight in monstrous waves and hurricane-force winds.

Max

Hey Oz--
 

"Peter" wrote in message
ups.com...

Joe wrote:
Peter wrote:
Joe wrote:
OzOne wrote:
On 25 Sep 2006 17:57:21 -0700, "Peter"
scribbled thusly:


Maxprop wrote:
What can you tell me about Larry Ellison's boat Sayonnara? I'm
told he
raced it in the Hobart the year so many died. Any knowledge
about that?

I was looking it over rather thoroughly today. It's in storage
in a
building in Holland, MI, waiting for who knows what. Sure is a
big *******.

I saw it when it got into Hobart in 1998. Yep it's a big *******.
IIRC
he took line honours & swore he'd never do that race again.

PDW

My understanding is that he was totally disabled by seasickness and
fear after the storm hit, and yes, he did say that he would never
do
that race again despite surviving and taking line honours.

I don't hold that in any way against the man, I know of a dozen or
more who gave up distance ocean racing after their experiences in
'98.
One, a yachtsman of world renown has not sailed outside Sydney
Heads
since if my memory serves me well.


Geeeze, what a bunch of pussies.

But that shows you many men who can afford Hoybart yachts are
lubber's
to start with, who bought thier way to sea. To bad not many real
sailors can afford 60 ft ocean sleads.

Nothing stopping you having a go, Joe. You won't win line honours but
you might win on handicap in your boat. Go for it in 2008/9 and I'll
buy you a beer. Next year I won't be here when the fleet gets in.

PDW

Ya find me a 60 ft sled and Ill buy me own ticket peter, I'm not skeerd
in the least.
If you do, and she a proper sled I'll win the race.

Borrow Ellison's. Maxprop said he's not using it ATM. There ya go, I've
solved your sled probs. See you when you get here....

Hell, I'll help you get it on the trailer, Joe.

You couldn't pay me enough to do the Sydney-Hobart.

Max

Hey Oz--
 

"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...

OzOne wrote:
On 25 Sep 2006 18:47:16 -0700, "Joe"
scribbled thusly:



Geeeze, what a bunch of pussies.

But that shows you many men who can afford Hoybart yachts are lubber's
to start with, who bought thier way to sea. To bad not many real
sailors can afford 60 ft ocean sleads.

Ever sailed thru a hurricane in a light displacement fin keeler Joe?

No Oz I havent,,but if you give me one I'll give it a shot. No problem,
I've been in a many hurricanes at sea and know how to use them to my
advantage, specially sailing. I know bys ballot law like the back of my
hand. The worse the seas... the more I feel alive.

How interesting. During the '98 Hobart a lot of sailors felt rather dead in
those seas.

Max

Hey Oz--
 

OzOne wrote in message ...
On 25 Sep 2006 18:55:45 -0700, "Peter"
scribbled thusly:

Had a close up look at the surviving fleet in 98. My objection to them
was & is the same. Structural integrity & seakindliness has been
sacrificed for speed. Fine provided nothing goes wrong, but when it
does, those yachts are dangerous.

Yep, but then again...there's no real point in racing an
undercanvasses overweight crab crusher.

Oddly enough the boat that sank with all hands but three (?) was closest to
that description of all the race boats in '98, IIRC.

Max

Hey Oz--
 

Joe wrote:
Thats not the point, I'm telling you with a well founded boat no seas
on earth can scare me.

Well, if you're not afraid to die, that's a good attitude.

I have seen the ocean rip 2" welded steel plates apart, and
that was in a storm of less than 24 hours brewing (North Sea
'V' shaped depression).

In that same storm, two oil rigs were heavily damaged, one
was abandoned and one of the survival pods w/ approx 30 men
was lost.

I was on a 400' Navy ship, and it was not fun. We recovered
one of the survival pods (like a lifeboat). IMHO there is no
small sailboat ever built that would not have been shredded
in that storm. Imagine being lifted up 50 or 60 feet in the
air, then slammed down, tumbling as you go. Sometime getting
slammed from 50' up landing on your side, sometimes
upside-down. Repeat at least twice every three minutes for
twelve hours.

The biggest piece left would fit in a pizza box.



..... My fear
would be dying in bed asleep, or in an office building closing a deal.


Nobody knows how it will happen, but we all know it will.
Every man likes to think he's not afraid of dying but to
seek it out is either very stupid, or crazy, or both.

Fresh Breezes- Doug King

Hey Oz--
 

Maxprop wrote:
We're looking at a boat in the same building. Next time we're there, I'll
take a few shots of her, if someone can give me a place to post 'em.


Email 'em to me, I'll put em up on Webshots. You can have
credit or not, as you pick.

I think Webshots has given me free space because we get so
much traffic (usually 200 ~ 300 views per day).

DSK

Hey Oz--
 

Maxprop wrote:
"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...

OzOne wrote:
On 25 Sep 2006 18:47:16 -0700, "Joe"
scribbled thusly:



Geeeze, what a bunch of pussies.

But that shows you many men who can afford Hoybart yachts are lubber's
to start with, who bought thier way to sea. To bad not many real
sailors can afford 60 ft ocean sleads.

Ever sailed thru a hurricane in a light displacement fin keeler Joe?

No Oz I havent,,but if you give me one I'll give it a shot. No problem,
I've been in a many hurricanes at sea and know how to use them to my
advantage, specially sailing. I know bys ballot law like the back of my
hand. The worse the seas... the more I feel alive.

How interesting. During the '98 Hobart a lot of sailors felt rather dead in
those seas.

Max

Yeah I know all about it Max.

Joe

Hey Oz--
 

Maxprop wrote:
"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...

OzOne wrote:
On 25 Sep 2006 17:57:21 -0700, "Peter"
scribbled thusly:


Maxprop wrote:
What can you tell me about Larry Ellison's boat Sayonnara? I'm told
he
raced it in the Hobart the year so many died. Any knowledge about
that?

I was looking it over rather thoroughly today. It's in storage in a
building in Holland, MI, waiting for who knows what. Sure is a big
*******.

I saw it when it got into Hobart in 1998. Yep it's a big *******. IIRC
he took line honours & swore he'd never do that race again.

PDW

My understanding is that he was totally disabled by seasickness and
fear after the storm hit, and yes, he did say that he would never do
that race again despite surviving and taking line honours.

I don't hold that in any way against the man, I know of a dozen or
more who gave up distance ocean racing after their experiences in '98.
One, a yachtsman of world renown has not sailed outside Sydney Heads
since if my memory serves me well.


Geeeze, what a bunch of pussies.

Heh . . . big talk from one who never spent what must have felt like a
fortnight in monstrous waves and hurricane-force winds.

Max

Max, I have been in several hurricanes at sea. 2 in the gulf and one in
the south China Sea. The one's in the gulf was on a standby boat. The
seas got so bad we had life rings washed of the bridge wings and
tangled in the mast approx 50-60 ftrs. The hurricane formed right
around us. Other time on a 32 ft Layfetta Skiff. Took us 4 hrs to get
out and 26 to get back in.. seas 25-40 ft. The worst by far was in the
South China sea with waves in the 60-80 ft class, same storm that the
fellow was killed on the tug trying to pull our ship away from the
dock. While delivering a boat to Wick Scottland we were hit by a rogue
in the north sea, normal waves were 30+ ft the rougue was around 60ft
and tore a 30 ft weld and moved the wheelhouse back 2 inches and blew
in every window. One of the wildest night ever was evacuating a rig 110
miles offshore, we had to wait to the last min for 5 guys to decide to
shut down the rig, we had 20fts off the stern all the way in, that boat
was screaming and surfing like you could not even imagine. Terry(my
wife) rode out Hurricane alicia on a 60 ft shrimpboat that had every
port and window smashed in with every wave putting at least a ft of
water in the wheelhose, waves in the 40 -60 ft range.

Joe

Hey Oz--
 

Maxprop wrote:
OzOne wrote
"Peter" scribbled thusly:

Had a close up look at the surviving fleet in 98. My objection to them
was & is the same. Structural integrity & seakindliness has been
sacrificed for speed. Fine provided nothing goes wrong, but when it
does, those yachts are dangerous.

Yep, but then again...there's no real point in racing an
undercanvasses overweight crab crusher.

Oddly enough the boat that sank with all hands but three (?) was closest to
that description of all the race boats in '98, IIRC.

Max

Good point Max. You must be talking about the
Winston Churhill. I can't remember what happened
to that boat. I think there was as structrual problem
with the boat that someone knew about but didn't
think was serious. They bailed out into two liferafts
and neither did very well in the rough seas. In some
situations a liferaft is nearly useless.

Hey Oz--
 

OzOne wrote:
On 25 Sep 2006 20:03:25 -0700, "Joe"
scribbled thusly:

Must have been big boats Joe.

Nah a 32 ft layfette skiff, a 160 ftr .....well then the 865 ftr.

You sailed through a hurricane in a 32' skiff?

Different kinda skiff Oz, Rigged just like this one, but a bit bigger.
We owned it one season and went broke, bank repo'd the boat. The boat
would do 25kts. Had a high speed VM diesel. We left the butterfly nets
and frames ashore.

http://www.louisianafolklife.org/FOL...yetteskiff.jpg

Hurricane force winds...We were on a snapper fishing trip with the
owner that I bought the boat from. We were about 120 miles offshore and
got hammered by one of the most bad ass Northern's I've ever seen,
Horizon to horizon black wall.


Thats not the point, I'm telling you with a well founded boat no seas
on earth can scare me. Guess that cuz I figure drowning would be a nice
way to go IMO. And Ive been in seas that made most others cower in
terror and I had no fear what so ever OZ, none -de natta. I concetrate
on each wave and love the battle for some reason it's like christmas
morning for me, I love it! I'm not bragging, thats just the way it is.
I have no fear what so ever of the sea. To hear of people who will
never leave a breakwater, because they lost friends is sad IMO. My fear
would be dying in bed asleep, or in an office building closing a deal.

Joe

My friends are no 'scared', they have just decided that the risks in
ocean racing are just no longer worth the returns anymore.

Well saying they have never been out of the breakwaters again seems
spooked to me.

I've been smacked by a couple of cyclones at sea, and while taking
each wave as it comes is a nice thought, 40-50' waves with another
10-20' of breaking water on top are rarely something that you manage
to 'take' rather than survive until the next one.

Agreed.

Mind you, two of those incidents were in yachts under 40' LOA and one
resulted in the loss of a friend and his crew on board another similar
yacht which was travelling back in loose company with us.

Had a buddy's 220 fter go down in a storm in Matagorda bay, killed 5,
the cook survived by being trapped in an air bubble in the bow, the bay
was only 35 ft deep.


I will freely admit that I was scared for my life and that of my crew.
Scared enough to make every effort to stay afloat and onboard despite
seemingly unsurmountable odds.

Being scared for crew sucks, thats the only thing I dis-liked with my
wife aboard... for passangers it's as bad. Best you can do then is show
no fear and act like a captain in command of his vessel. Once they see
a glimmer of fear in the captains eyes your in for a real bad
experience all around. Fear spreads faster than fire on a boat.

We were about 8 NM from the boat that was lost and caught one radio
trans which said that she had been rolled 'again' but was OK. that
waves were becoming steeper and that we should "take care".
That was it.

Did you roll?

We turned back 2days later hoping that she had been dismasted and had
no radio range.

Sounds like a rough trip.

Joe

Oz1...of the 3 twins.

I welcome you to crackerbox palace,We've been expecting you.

Hey Oz--
 

It is a romantic sport... not carried out against the
elements, but because of them.

SG

Hey Oz--
 

"Joe" wrote in message
ps.com...

Maxprop wrote:
"Joe" wrote in message
ups.com...

OzOne wrote:
On 25 Sep 2006 17:57:21 -0700, "Peter"
scribbled thusly:


Maxprop wrote:
What can you tell me about Larry Ellison's boat Sayonnara? I'm
told
he
raced it in the Hobart the year so many died. Any knowledge about
that?

I was looking it over rather thoroughly today. It's in storage in
a
building in Holland, MI, waiting for who knows what. Sure is a big
*******.

I saw it when it got into Hobart in 1998. Yep it's a big *******.
IIRC
he took line honours & swore he'd never do that race again.

PDW

My understanding is that he was totally disabled by seasickness and
fear after the storm hit, and yes, he did say that he would never do
that race again despite surviving and taking line honours.

I don't hold that in any way against the man, I know of a dozen or
more who gave up distance ocean racing after their experiences in '98.
One, a yachtsman of world renown has not sailed outside Sydney Heads
since if my memory serves me well.


Geeeze, what a bunch of pussies.

Heh . . . big talk from one who never spent what must have felt like a
fortnight in monstrous waves and hurricane-force winds.

Max

Max, I have been in several hurricanes at sea. 2 in the gulf and one in
the south China Sea. The one's in the gulf was on a standby boat. The
seas got so bad we had life rings washed of the bridge wings and
tangled in the mast approx 50-60 ftrs. The hurricane formed right
around us. Other time on a 32 ft Layfetta Skiff. Took us 4 hrs to get
out and 26 to get back in.. seas 25-40 ft. The worst by far was in the
South China sea with waves in the 60-80 ft class, same storm that the
fellow was killed on the tug trying to pull our ship away from the
dock. While delivering a boat to Wick Scottland we were hit by a rogue
in the north sea, normal waves were 30+ ft the rougue was around 60ft
and tore a 30 ft weld and moved the wheelhouse back 2 inches and blew
in every window. One of the wildest night ever was evacuating a rig 110
miles offshore, we had to wait to the last min for 5 guys to decide to
shut down the rig, we had 20fts off the stern all the way in, that boat
was screaming and surfing like you could not even imagine. Terry(my
wife) rode out Hurricane alicia on a 60 ft shrimpboat that had every
port and window smashed in with every wave putting at least a ft of
water in the wheelhose, waves in the 40 -60 ft range.

I'm not aware of the type and configuration of all the boats you mention.
But I'm betting none were lightly-built (underbuilt), overcanvased maxi
racers, or anything similar. I've been through hurricane-force winds and
very closely-spaced seas of 30' or more on a 767' bulk freighter (sistership
to the ill-fated Edmund Fitzgerald), but never felt that my life was in
jeopardy. Larry Ellison commented in a post-race interview that he thought,
once or twice, that he and his crew might actually survive the '98 Hobart
while they were in the midst of the storm. By converse reasoning it would
appear that he was convinced that his life was over, at least a portion of
the time. I'm sure that would be a most depressing revelation.

Max

Hey Oz--
 

OzOne wrote in message ...
On Tue, 26 Sep 2006 04:46:11 GMT, "Maxprop"
scribbled thusly:


OzOne wrote in message
. ..
On 25 Sep 2006 18:55:45 -0700, "Peter"
scribbled thusly:

Had a close up look at the surviving fleet in 98. My objection to them
was & is the same. Structural integrity & seakindliness has been
sacrificed for speed. Fine provided nothing goes wrong, but when it
does, those yachts are dangerous.

Yep, but then again...there's no real point in racing an
undercanvasses overweight crab crusher.

Oddly enough the boat that sank with all hands but three (?) was closest
to
that description of all the race boats in '98, IIRC.

Max


Yes, and a great deal was made of the fact that she may have left port
with some sprung planks under the mast step after a re rig.
Apparently she was leaking when alongside.

I recall that from the book. Interestingly enough they probably would have
been fine had they not been subject to such a violent storm.

Max

Hey Oz--
 

"Bart" wrote in message
oups.com...
Maxprop wrote:
OzOne wrote
"Peter" scribbled thusly:

Had a close up look at the surviving fleet in 98. My objection to them
was & is the same. Structural integrity & seakindliness has been
sacrificed for speed. Fine provided nothing goes wrong, but when it
does, those yachts are dangerous.

Yep, but then again...there's no real point in racing an
undercanvasses overweight crab crusher.

Oddly enough the boat that sank with all hands but three (?) was closest
to
that description of all the race boats in '98, IIRC.

Max

Good point Max. You must be talking about the
Winston Churhill. I can't remember what happened
to that boat. I think there was as structrual problem
with the boat that someone knew about but didn't
think was serious. They bailed out into two liferafts
and neither did very well in the rough seas. In some
situations a liferaft is nearly useless.

Your assessment sounds familiar. I read the book quite a few years ago.

Max

Hey Oz--
 

"DSK" wrote in message
. ..
Maxprop wrote:
We're looking at a boat in the same building. Next time we're there,
I'll take a few shots of her, if someone can give me a place to post 'em.


Email 'em to me, I'll put em up on Webshots. You can have credit or not,
as you pick.

I think Webshots has given me free space because we get so much traffic
(usually 200 ~ 300 views per day).

We plan to take another look at the boat we're considering, possibly this
coming weekend. If so, I'll take a few shots of Sayonara and email 'em to
you.

Max

Hey Oz--
 

Maxprop wrote:


I'm not aware of the type and configuration of all the boats you mention.
But I'm betting none were lightly-built (underbuilt), overcanvased maxi
racers, or anything similar.

I assure you the layfette Skiff is lighter buildt than an Maxi, infact
as I mentioned I was out with the owner right before I bought the boat,
as the seas buildt he wanted to transfer to an oil rig and ditch the
boat, Knowing it was going to extreamly dangerious to try to get on a
rig I told him then and there if he did I was going to claim salvage on
the boat and not give him a penney for it...

I've been through hurricane-force winds and
very closely-spaced seas of 30' or more on a 767' bulk freighter (sistership
to the ill-fated Edmund Fitzgerald), but never felt that my life was in
jeopardy.


Why would you in 30 ftrs on a 767ft ship?

Larry Ellison commented in a post-race interview that he thought,
once or twice, that he and his crew might actually survive the '98 Hobart
while they were in the midst of the storm. By converse reasoning it would
appear that he was convinced that his life was over, at least a portion of
the time. I'm sure that would be a most depressing revelation.

Well then Larry's a putz, and a failure as a Captain. He's a rich boy
who bought his way into a mans game and could not hang. Once he
accepted he was going to die, then be assured his crew felt the same
way. I think it's a wise decision for him to give up ocean racing all
together. You can not buy your way into being a good Captain.

Joe

Max

Hey Oz--
 

Maxprop wrote:
We plan to take another look at the boat we're considering, possibly this
coming weekend. If so, I'll take a few shots of Sayonara and email 'em to
you.


OK
It would be interesting to hear a boat shopping report too.

DSK

Hey Oz--
 

"Joe" wrote
.... Terry(my
wife) rode out Hurricane alicia on a 60 ft shrimpboat that had every
port and window smashed in with every wave putting at least a ft of
water in the wheelhose, waves in the 40 -60 ft range.


Sounds exciting. One thing I have noticed about most
shrimpers, they do believe in have good pumps aboard.


Maxprop wrote:
I'm not aware of the type and configuration of all the boats you mention.
But I'm betting none were lightly-built (underbuilt), overcanvased maxi
racers, or anything similar.

Interesting way to put it. But it also reveals a fallacy in
thinking about the issue of structural integrity of boats
(or any vehicle).

In basic physics, when you're figuring out how much force is
generated (or absorbed in an impact), velocity is squared.
In boats this means that going 10 knots generates four times
the force of going 5 knots. Another side of the problem is
that impact loads are spread over time... hitting waves
faster means higher peak loads on the structure.

So maxi racers are far from underbuilt. They are built very
very strong, if not they would crumble from the forces
generated in driving them under normal sailing conditions.
Successful racing boats are generally built much stronger
than cruising boats... they are also subjected to
exponentially higher forces. This is why the structural
failures on racing boats tend to be more sudden &
dramatic... like the difference between a 2400psi express
header multi-fuel boiler and 60psi fire tube boiler with a
wood furnace built into one end.

How many cruising boats sailed through the '98 Hobart Race
storm?

Fresh Breezes- Doug King